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Democratic Primaries

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garybeck

(10,019 posts)
Thu Mar 19, 2020, 02:31 PM Mar 2020

Bernie just plain F'd up. [View all]

He never should have accepted the "socialist" label.

his only hope was to wordsmith it and say "i'm not a socialist. i believe in having more social programs"

he had zero chance of teaching the american public what socialism is and convincing them that's what we need. zero chance.

the american people, by and large, operate on labels.

there will never be a socialist president in our country. let me rephrase that. there will never be a president who accepts the "socialist" label

a democratic socialist is still a socialist
just like a blue car is still a car

he didn't have to change any of his ideas
he didn't have to change any of his plans
he only had to get rid of the label.

most democrats, and many republicans, like his ideas and plans. but too many people will simply not vote for a socialist. never. period.

when people started seeing that he was in the lead for the primary, and we were going to put up a socialist against trump, everyone panicked. and rightfully so. it wasn't because of his ideas. it was because of his label. I was/am one of them who had zero confidence that someone who embraced the socialist label would do well in November.

I like his ideas. I think he would make a good president.

But he made a monumental failure in thinking this would not be a problem. there are a good 50% of even democrats who would vote for someone with the exact same ideas as Bernie, but they will NEVER vote for a socialist. partly because they don't want to live in a socialist country (regardless of what that actually means) but also because they correctly saw that a socialist would lose to trump. So people immediately gravitated elsewhere. it wasn't an evil conspiracy in the DNC to get the others to drop out. it was smart and it might have saved us from 4 more years of Trump.

you can say it sucks that people can't see past labels in this country, but that's the way it is. get over it. you need a good label if you want your product to sell. the american people have been taught that socialism is bad ever since they/we were in elementary school. you can't shake that, period.

the nail in the coffin was when he said something positive about castro. that was just plain STUPID, regardless of the facts and nuances. his numbers started to tank that day and that was the end.

here is a quick lesson in labels.

tycoon businessman vs socialist

tycoon businessman vs former vice president, elder statesman, centrist

for millions of people, that's the choice they are making. they don't watch the news, they don't understand nuance, they are not experts in history or civics.

note, the label doesn't necessarily have to be correctly placed. you can an "ice cream" label on a tub of "frozen yogurt" and people will still buy it.

I was surprised that bernie embraced it. I thought he understood the american public better than that, and this all seems obvious to me. it is much easier to just say "i am not a socialist" and dance around that, than to try to educate the country on what socialism is and why it is not the boogy man they think it is. that ain't gonna happen in this lifetime.

I think the attacks on bernie here in DU and elsewhere are unwarranted. He played by the rules and he has good intentions. He does NOT want trump to get reelected and he will not do anything that could help enable that. He recognizes the problems in this country. He loves this country and wants to make things better. I completely disagree with people who are saying he "never passed any laws" or influenced policy. He has had a HUUUGE affect on policy and the direction of the party, and I agree with those affects. He just had a bad strategy and failed to realize the importance of labels, which is perhaps the most important thing.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
81 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Bernie just plain F'd up. [View all] garybeck Mar 2020 OP
He did not accept that label. He EMBRACED it. MineralMan Mar 2020 #1
yes, i said exactly that. and that was his downfall. n't garybeck Mar 2020 #2
The word "accepted" is ambiguous enough to suggest that the label was thrust upon him by others... NurseJackie Mar 2020 #8
Do you really think that is Bernie's only problem?? Mars and Minerva Mar 2020 #10
Telling the TRUTH was his downfall? Interesting take. Hortensis Mar 2020 #46
Agree, it wasn't a "label" that doomed him, radius777 Mar 2020 #56
universal health care did not help Italy AlexSFCA Mar 2020 #77
Italy has a good healthcare system. Our party is COMMITTED Hortensis Mar 2020 #80
He Began With It, Sir --- No One Pinned It On Him The Magistrate Mar 2020 #3
that's not the point garybeck Mar 2020 #9
It Is Part Of His Identity, Sir The Magistrate Mar 2020 #16
True that. ucrdem Mar 2020 #22
New England Is An Odd Duck, Sir The Magistrate Mar 2020 #25
Nicely done! ucrdem Mar 2020 #29
So good to see you back, sir, with your finely toned rhetoric and GoneOffShore Mar 2020 #33
Too much socialist oppo on him to deny it. In less than a... brush Mar 2020 #61
Yep, and the repugs have tons of oppo on him they're just... brush Mar 2020 #59
+1 betsuni Mar 2020 #60
By the time he decided to run for president, it was way too late, there were too many examples sop Mar 2020 #4
Very astute observations. Turin_C3PO Mar 2020 #5
He Can't Admit Making A Mistake, Sir The Magistrate Mar 2020 #11
He should have dumped the label -- I've been saying that for years. TwilightZone Mar 2020 #6
Yeah, that ".. no one can stop me.. " didn't Cha Mar 2020 #63
Social democrat is better dawg day Mar 2020 #7
agree. garybeck Mar 2020 #14
True, but he doesn't want to be identified as a Democrat. TwilightZone Mar 2020 #37
Most labels should be dropped frazzled Mar 2020 #12
Moderate and moderate Democrat aren't even the same thing. TwilightZone Mar 2020 #38
The corporate bugaboo is especially nutty Aquaria Mar 2020 #48
+1 betsuni Mar 2020 #57
Castro was a mistake but coronavirus was waiting in the wings ucrdem Mar 2020 #13
We've been in chaos mode for years now Aquaria Mar 2020 #49
I Think There are Several Reasons that Keep Bernie From Winning The Nomination That Have Nothing to Indykatie Mar 2020 #58
Truth. So many negatives, it's amazing he got as far as he did. ucrdem Mar 2020 #64
Bernie Sanders is an astute politician ismnotwasm Mar 2020 #15
It's an essential part of his identity and his appeal dalton99a Mar 2020 #17
not really. i live in vermont garybeck Mar 2020 #23
He needs to end it SiliconValley_Dem Mar 2020 #18
He is who he is. W_HAMILTON Mar 2020 #19
The best title to use is Democrat. KY_EnviroGuy Mar 2020 #20
I think the last straw was "coming for the Democratic Establishment" LakeArenal Mar 2020 #21
Bernie is a socialist, not a Democrat, Progressive dog Mar 2020 #24
He never should have accepted the "socialist" label. left-of-center2012 Mar 2020 #26
He wants to be the grumpy, set outlier and then demands everyone conform to him. That is why he was LizBeth Mar 2020 #27
Right wingers weaponize labels to mock, misrepresent, and marginalize Shermann Mar 2020 #28
He did not play by the rules NCProgressive Mar 2020 #30
by june, I wonder if socialism would still give people the same bad taste it did before. jorgevlorgan Mar 2020 #31
Murica is not ready to understand progressive issues. That simple. And they are, that simple. Evolve Dammit Mar 2020 #32
Ugh!!! mac2766 Mar 2020 #34
*sigh* nolawarlock Mar 2020 #47
Go out in the real world Aquaria Mar 2020 #50
Agreed! Universal care goes way back to Roosevelt even... brush Mar 2020 #65
If Recollection Serves, Sir, It Was The Old 'Iron Chancelloe' Put In Place The First One The Magistrate Mar 2020 #71
Thanks, and perhaps where Teddy Roosevelt got it from... brush Mar 2020 #72
No. betsuni Mar 2020 #54
Thanks for this, for explaining the real deal origins of these issues. brush Mar 2020 #66
Problematic personally, not widely appealing. Weak AA support. Never struck larger themes emmaverybo Mar 2020 #35
So very true DownriverDem Mar 2020 #36
Should have never hijacked the Democratic primaries, twice, while retaining the I affiliation question everything Mar 2020 #39
Ezactly! And, that's not all he shouldn't have done. Cha Mar 2020 #41
Yes he embraced it.. and that's not all he shouldn't have done. Cha Mar 2020 #40
He could have remained a democrat. But nope. boston bean Mar 2020 #42
Yes, what is with the constant switching back to (I)? brush Mar 2020 #67
He has to say: "Sit down for 10 minutes and I'll explain". JohnnyRingo Mar 2020 #43
Branding Roy Rolling Mar 2020 #44
when a pony has one trick, it tends to keep doing it Skittles Mar 2020 #45
An old one Aquaria Mar 2020 #51
oh I think old folk can learn new tricks Skittles Mar 2020 #52
+1 betsuni Mar 2020 #55
Heeheehee! You are bad. brush Mar 2020 #68
one correct badass Skittles Mar 2020 #70
50 years of red baiting propaganda is hard to ocercome. rampartc Mar 2020 #53
I'd argue the opposite dansolo Mar 2020 #62
So true. America will not elect a socialist, even if... brush Mar 2020 #69
I am glad that sanders will not be the nominee Gothmog Mar 2020 #73
sanders sent Cynthia Nixon to Florida to deal with Castro issue??? Gothmog Mar 2020 #74
Bernie was so sure he was going to beat Biden that he campaigned in Klobouchar and Warren's states Gothmog Mar 2020 #75
His intentions were good? That is why he hired such divisive people as Gray, Sirota, and Turner still_one Mar 2020 #76
He's a terrible, one trick pony (anger), front man for a poorly packaged/designed product. gulliver Mar 2020 #78
It seems that even the sanders have realized that Sirota is toxic Gothmog Mar 2020 #79
How 'Never Bernie' Voters Threw In With Biden and Changed the Primary Gothmog Apr 2020 #81
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