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History of Feminism

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boston bean

(36,451 posts)
Thu Dec 19, 2013, 06:33 AM Dec 2013

If I Admit That 'Hating Men' Is a Thing, Will You Stop Turning It Into a Self-Fulfilling Prophecy? [View all]

Okay, so maybe you are a man. Maybe you haven't had the easiest ride in life—maybe you grew up in poverty; you've experienced death, neglect, and despair; you hate your job, your car, your body. Maybe somebody (or multiple somebodies) pulverized your heart, or maybe you've never even been loved enough to know what a broken heart feels like. Maybe shit started out unfair and became irreparable and you never deserved any of this. Maybe everything looks fine on paper, but you're just unhappy and you don't know why. These are human problems and other human beings feel for you very deeply. It is hard to be a human. I am so sorry.

However.

Though it is a seductive scapegoat (I understand why it attracts you), none of these terrible, painful problems in your life were caused by the spectre of "misandry." You can rest easy about that, I promise! In fact, the most powerful proponent of misandry in modern internet discourse is you — specifically, your dogged insistence that misandry is a genuine, systemic, oppressive force on par with misogyny. This is specious, it hurts women, and it is hurting you. Most feminists don't hate men, as a group (we hate the system that disproportionately favors men at the expense of women), but — congratulations! — we are starting to hate you. You, the person. Your obsession with misandry has turned misandry into a self-fulfilling prophecy. (I mean, sort of. Hating individual men is not the same as hating all men. But more on that in a minute.) Are you happy now? Is this what you wanted? Feminism is, in essence, a social justice movement—it wants to take the side of the alienated and the marginalized, and that includes alienated and marginalized men. Please stop turning us against you.

It is nearly impossible to address problems facing women—especially problems in which men are even tangentially culpable—without comments sections devolving into cries of "misandry!" from men and replies of "misandry isn't real" from women. Feminists are tired of this endless, fruitless turd-pong: hollow "conversation" built on willful miscommunication, bouncing back and forth, back and forth, until both sides throw up their hands and bolt. Maybe you are tired of this too. We seem to be having some very deep misunderstandings on this point, so let's unpack it. I promise not to yell.


You can read these five parts at the link below..

Part One: Why Feminism Has "Fem" in the Name, or, Why Can't We All Just Be Humanists?

Part Two: Why Claiming that Sexism Isn't Real Is a Sexist Thing to Say

Part Three: Why People Being Shitty to You Is Not the Same as You Being Systematically Disenfranchised

Part Four: A List of "Men's Rights" Issues That Feminism Is Already Working On

Part Five: I'm Sorry That You Are in Pain, But Please Stop Taking It Out on Women


http://jezebel.com/5992479/if-i-admit-that-hating-men-is-a-thing-will-you-stop-turning-it-into-a-self+fulfilling-prophecy
186 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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This should be good... chervilant Dec 2013 #1
Welp... you called it... I really didn't think it would get this much attention. Certainly struck boston bean Dec 2013 #51
Men are the worst. another_liberal Dec 2013 #2
That's what you took away from the OP? nt boston bean Dec 2013 #3
I'm just saying . . . another_liberal Dec 2013 #4
and that would be? boston bean Dec 2013 #5
This message was self-deleted by its author another_liberal Dec 2013 #7
"And that would be . . .?" another_liberal Dec 2013 #10
Well, up to this point, I was genuinely curious as to what the purpose of your response was. boston bean Dec 2013 #11
you fail in communication leaving question to what you aer saying. then you throw a rant when what seabeyond Dec 2013 #12
Just as an aside, you should check the group, because the rules for posting differ by group. spooky3 Dec 2013 #14
oh, the "tone" complaint coupled with "possibly sarcastic" broadbrushing- why not go for a trifecta? bettyellen Dec 2013 #131
I remember reading part four somewhere before (maybe here actually). NuclearDem Dec 2013 #6
In the 60s that was one of the BlueToTheBone Dec 2013 #46
I get the point Locrian Dec 2013 #8
Part 3 should be required reading gollygee Dec 2013 #9
Agreed NewJeffCT Dec 2013 #16
Any man who whines about misandry is immediately relegated to Sheldon Cooper Dec 2013 #13
I have a fantastic progressive friend going through a custody dispute right now TekGryphon Dec 2013 #21
Your friend's situation is still NOT misandry. Sheldon Cooper Dec 2013 #24
So any systemic inequalities against women is born of misogyny, while.. TekGryphon Dec 2013 #28
you have a friend, going thru a divorce, and obviously on his side, feeling his pain, with no actual seabeyond Dec 2013 #35
For the last time, there ARE no systemic inequities against men. Sheldon Cooper Dec 2013 #39
"I've got a mother-in-law ... " A-Schwarzenegger Dec 2013 #94
let me tell you about MY MIL. ya. nt seabeyond Dec 2013 #95
... redqueen Dec 2013 #99
historically rules of divorce were there to perpetute he system men preferred- dumping the kids on bettyellen Dec 2013 #132
you can go into the mens forum, join a thread about how to cheat a wife out of her share of the $ seabeyond Dec 2013 #31
I understand why you think this is the same, BlueToTheBone Dec 2013 #55
The legal system is still skewed toward women getting custody Warpy Dec 2013 #85
grabbing the popcorn NewJeffCT Dec 2013 #15
why would you do this? it is a serious subject. grabbing your popcorn, waiting for entertainment seabeyond Dec 2013 #17
Sea I don't see anything nefarious with his posting. I think maybe it is being misinterpreted. He boston bean Dec 2013 #18
i asked. i did not accuse. we understand the meaning of grabbing popcorn. seabeyond Dec 2013 #19
maybe you know something I don't know... ok. boston bean Dec 2013 #20
lol. i do not know either. hence, allowing the poster to clarify. that is the right thing to do, seabeyond Dec 2013 #22
I saw it the same way you did, sea. Sheldon Cooper Dec 2013 #25
If you really want a fruitful discussion about feminism I am not sure this is the best way to do it. yellowcanine Dec 2013 #23
So, once again: instead of men actually listening to us, and thinking about what we're saying, Sheldon Cooper Dec 2013 #26
"Listening" goes both ways. Does disagreement necessarily mean I did not listen? yellowcanine Dec 2013 #50
Who said anything about how you might respond? BainsBane Dec 2013 #157
this post is NOT addressing you. obviously. the problem, is men like you do not live in this world seabeyond Dec 2013 #29
Ok I do not understand this response - I implied that there IS a need for society to take a yellowcanine Dec 2013 #43
"I think most men on THIS site agree with that." 6. at this point, not including you because seabeyond Dec 2013 #45
and one person who did not, how did you respond....? yellowcanine Dec 2013 #52
my tone? was not right? i tried. man i tippy toed, i asked questions, i compliment, i embraced you seabeyond Dec 2013 #53
I understand this piece. I just disagree with it as a tactic. yellowcanine Dec 2013 #58
because. the hate. is growing. leaps. and. bounds. seabeyond Dec 2013 #60
then start your own OP about the ERA BainsBane Dec 2013 #161
What are you not concerned with the negative approach the rest of DU BainsBane Dec 2013 #160
"I am a man" xulamaude Dec 2013 #32
Tell women? I responded to one OP. How is that "telling women."? yellowcanine Dec 2013 #44
you ask. that is good. so i will answer. women consistently, continually hear we would be more seabeyond Dec 2013 #47
Sure, you're allowed to do almost anything you want xulamaude Dec 2013 #48
btw... you will take note how this whole issue is talking about this issue with you, and not seabeyond Dec 2013 #49
with respect, the sad truth is that you are more the exception, not the rule geek tragedy Dec 2013 #54
Then we go back to the basics and change their minds. yellowcanine Dec 2013 #63
well fuck. k. basics. you dismissed everything i said and became accusatory and defensive. a man seabeyond Dec 2013 #66
this is a discussion board, what are they supposed to do then, just STFU? nt geek tragedy Dec 2013 #67
Yes, that is exactly what we are suppose to do BainsBane Dec 2013 #180
Do you even fucking hear yourself? redqueen Dec 2013 #173
Don't question his privilege BainsBane Dec 2013 #179
This facile understanding of what feminism is about has been fostered by many well-meaning women. redqueen Dec 2013 #182
I would have no problem with their saying that BainsBane Dec 2013 #183
exactly redq. i say, that is the easy stuff. womens right. feminism is the hard stuff. seabeyond Dec 2013 #184
Yet here you are BainsBane Dec 2013 #178
Did you read the piece at the link? redqueen Dec 2013 #172
Poor poor me. geckosfeet Dec 2013 #27
i hear ya. it is silly and immature for men to immerse themselves in this mentality. seabeyond Dec 2013 #30
a lot if this stuff is just over my head. if i am hated by virtue being born geckosfeet Dec 2013 #33
so... you did walk in merely to disrupt in your cryptic post. bat signal go out? i see RC here seabeyond Dec 2013 #36
I do take it seriously. Equality for women is a serious issue. geckosfeet Dec 2013 #167
No one here hates men BainsBane Dec 2013 #169
Damn BB, you are on FIRE this morning! Sheldon Cooper Dec 2013 #170
He may have me on ignore from the gun battles BainsBane Dec 2013 #171
Why should they bother to read the article? They know everything already! redqueen Dec 2013 #175
my posts to you = hate? really? calling you out for purposely being disruptive and disrespectful seabeyond Dec 2013 #176
yo, no one is hating you for having a pee pee instead of a hoo hoo. geek tragedy Dec 2013 #71
Hind quarters fully operational and intact. geckosfeet Dec 2013 #83
good way to illustrate why some individuals are dismissed as fools and losers, thank you. bettyellen Dec 2013 #133
good way to show the hate - keep up the good work geckosfeet Dec 2013 #135
that was just a slight bit of pity. don't flatter yourself. bettyellen Dec 2013 #136
Ha. I wouldn't think of it. geckosfeet Dec 2013 #165
Why are you so determined to defend the far right? BainsBane Dec 2013 #166
Thanks to you as well for demonstrating the need for articles such as the OP. redqueen Dec 2013 #174
The gungeon must be slow BainsBane Dec 2013 #158
It's over your head by virtue of not bothering to read the article BainsBane Dec 2013 #168
Poor, poor you. BainsBane Dec 2013 #181
There needs to be a part six RC Dec 2013 #34
as usual i stopped reading with your offensive first sentence. you do not belong in this group. your seabeyond Dec 2013 #37
This OP was on the Home page. RC Dec 2013 #40
i do not care where the Op was. you are adult enough, and capable enough to simply look seabeyond Dec 2013 #42
What will we learn? BainsBane Dec 2013 #145
boston... as a member of this group, and probably the first time ever, i ask you consider banning seabeyond Dec 2013 #38
oy geek tragedy Dec 2013 #56
thank you geek. he is very consistent with these insults to us, while pretending not. nt seabeyond Dec 2013 #61
Nice catch! And commentary! xulamaude Dec 2013 #89
There is help out there. chervilant Dec 2013 #65
I did. RC Dec 2013 #68
I didn't mean chervilant Dec 2013 #75
Feminism in general, yes. RC Dec 2013 #84
"In Your Face" type feminist, huh? xulamaude Dec 2013 #86
yes. he defines feminism and the ones that do not follow his definition have emotional damage. seabeyond Dec 2013 #87
Yeah, feminists should be deferential to men. They seem to have not gotten that memo. nt geek tragedy Dec 2013 #91
"what some woman's definition of feminism is" BainsBane Dec 2013 #149
"Didn't you read my post?" Squinch Dec 2013 #101
Maybe you should do more than skim my post. RC Dec 2013 #105
yet... you have to continually, always, consistently throw in your jabs toward hof. and why oh why, seabeyond Dec 2013 #106
You want us to stop recommending threads and have others who haven't ever made a single post in here boston bean Dec 2013 #107
No, you take responsibility. RC Dec 2013 #108
Apparently, you don't understand me at all. boston bean Dec 2013 #109
After my first post, where I did not see the HoF, I was defending my position. RC Dec 2013 #112
so, this is how many posts? you are well aware you are in hof, STILL the insults. ya. get over it seabeyond Dec 2013 #113
You are ignoring that you are posting in this group, and insulting the hell out of us. boston bean Dec 2013 #114
Like I said... RC Dec 2013 #115
Like I know, you are always quick to blame but never any self introspection. boston bean Dec 2013 #116
Be sweet, not angry little lady!1! nt xulamaude Dec 2013 #117
scary. reading BB's post above, i just caught a glance and thought rc was telling bb to be ..... seabeyond Dec 2013 #119
It is scary that it's not that much of a stretch to think xulamaude Dec 2013 #120
In his mind, he was a briliant ray of positivity.... does he even read what he wrote?? boston bean Dec 2013 #121
Yeah, see he's not being insulting or negative xulamaude Dec 2013 #123
i am telling ya. i haev had two years experience with this dazzling brilliance. and that is exactly seabeyond Dec 2013 #124
Yeah, but he has an interest in psychology, and has read books. Therefore, he feels he Squinch Dec 2013 #127
He uses way more words though... yup. lol. nt seabeyond Dec 2013 #122
or like you said. take responsibility. you insult. dude. that would be negative. all the time, seabeyond Dec 2013 #118
You are more than welcome to defend far right wing men's groups BainsBane Dec 2013 #154
personally attacking a group of people is not "opinion". it is stepping in and personally attacking seabeyond Dec 2013 #110
Yet for some reason you've decided your problems with your ex girlfirends BainsBane Dec 2013 #153
HoF is a group not a forum sheshe2 Dec 2013 #162
Maybe not. Again, based on the first line of your post and a quick skim: Squinch Dec 2013 #125
lol lol.... oh your laugh is infectious. i wonder what that means, lol. nt seabeyond Dec 2013 #126
The message is we're not supposed to be "in your face feminists" BainsBane Dec 2013 #152
Don't broadbrush men BainsBane Dec 2013 #156
But he has an interest in psychology, so we all need to listen. Squinch Dec 2013 #164
your one crappy realtionship has nothing to do with the OP. If you actully read it, you would not bettyellen Dec 2013 #134
And the jury results are in... aikoaiko Dec 2013 #137
it only took all day for someone to alert? of course it stays. insulting feminists is the in thing seabeyond Dec 2013 #138
Why did you feel the need to post that jury result. boston bean Dec 2013 #140
I post all the juries I'm in. Transparency is good. aikoaiko Dec 2013 #141
So, you came here to help out? Good to know. nt boston bean Dec 2013 #142
It not about you or the group. its about DU. I post all leave it juries on which I serve. aikoaiko Dec 2013 #143
Here's another thing about DU BainsBane Dec 2013 #147
Are jury results a violation of this group's SOP? aikoaiko Dec 2013 #148
Read them BainsBane Dec 2013 #150
I support the SOP for this group. And I bid you good night. aikoaiko Dec 2013 #155
It stirs up shit BainsBane Dec 2013 #146
You presume incorrectly. aikoaiko Dec 2013 #151
Tell us not to broadbrush BainsBane Dec 2013 #144
A plea to greatest pagers - read the actual article, not just the title. Dash87 Dec 2013 #41
So many women have such good reason to be xulamaude Dec 2013 #57
this is what amazes me. rape, abuse, murder, oppression, submission, subjugated, degraded seabeyond Dec 2013 #62
Part Four left out an important "Men's Rights" issue... chromotone Dec 2013 #59
all with expectation of bringing in income while doing all housework, caring of children, feeding seabeyond Dec 2013 #64
Oy, so you start with a gender stereotype and then blame women for the stereotype being geek tragedy Dec 2013 #69
Jesus wept. for real. tragc. just leave the man alone. and assume ALL responsibilities running seabeyond Dec 2013 #70
apparently lighting the furnace is an example of gender oppression. who knew? geek tragedy Dec 2013 #72
btw... i lit the pilot last saturday in game room so a bunch of teenage boys could stay warm. seabeyond Dec 2013 #73
depends, did you bake cookies for them too? nt geek tragedy Dec 2013 #74
lol... tomorrow or the next day. though i provided snack food. nt seabeyond Dec 2013 #80
did you do that on bended knee and a tray of refreshments in your other hand? boston bean Dec 2013 #88
nah. these boys love me. follow me around going on and on and on. they just do not see me seabeyond Dec 2013 #90
Expected of men by whom? MadrasT Dec 2013 #76
Eventually I did it all except maintain a couple of third world cars Warpy Dec 2013 #82
Another of the more unintentionally hilarious posts on this board. Sheldon Cooper Dec 2013 #77
What about households in which no men live? xulamaude Dec 2013 #78
You satirist, you. A-Schwarzenegger Dec 2013 #96
My husband has multiple sclerosis ismnotwasm Dec 2013 #100
Are you 80? Squinch Dec 2013 #102
Well said. redqueen Dec 2013 #103
Maybe he's a time traveller from the 1950's...the handle implies it. nt raccoon Dec 2013 #104
Heh! ismnotwasm Dec 2013 #128
Did you mistake someone in here for your wife? BainsBane Dec 2013 #163
Oh look. MadrasT Dec 2013 #79
lmao. nt seabeyond Dec 2013 #81
Shocked! Shocked I tell you. I think these guys are the flies that you catch Squinch Dec 2013 #130
!!! redqueen Dec 2013 #177
. Squinch Dec 2013 #185
Part Four was outstanding. CrispyQ Dec 2013 #92
du rec Tuesday Afternoon Dec 2013 #93
Holy shit... I thought this was an old OP. This escalated quickly. redqueen Dec 2013 #97
This is such good stuff ismnotwasm Dec 2013 #98
Proud to K&R UtahLib Dec 2013 #111
I used to get annoyed by the phrase "What about the menz?" because it seemed overly nomorenomore08 Dec 2013 #139
Oh yeah. Menz doesn't mean men BainsBane Dec 2013 #159
I get that, yeah. nomorenomore08 Dec 2013 #186
"Why People Being Shitty to You Is Not the Same as You Being Systematically Disenfranchised " Yep. bettyellen Dec 2013 #129
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