Religion

AtheistCrusader

(33,982 posts)

70. Then the formula is not balanced, as you pretend it is.

Mon Oct 21, 2019, 03:04 PM

Oct 2019

You talk of 'proof' but it works out thus:

Theist: I KNOW/BELIEVE, and do not require proof, and furthermore the existence of my god CANNOT be proven by definition.
Atheist: Prove it.

This is not balance. One is making a claim that requires burden of proof. The other is simply skeptical, therefore the burden of proof remains with the theist.

There are few to no atheists that stand here and say NO GOD(S) exist. We just don't believe you. It only becomes an issue then, when the Theist wants to control government, and thereby the populace, by religious claims.

So, to wrap up, I'll meet your last sentence's challenge:

Faith is not required to reject your faith-based claim.

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80 replies

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Highlight:

Theism is delusion [View all] edhopper Oct 2019 OP

Guess I need to be reminded as to what theism is all about Zambero Oct 2019 #1

a belief in gods. Voltaire2 Oct 2019 #5

Yes, but also a particular type of creator/interventionist god(s) Major Nikon Oct 2019 #19

not really, that is just one variant Voltaire2 Oct 2019 #20

I'm just saying that in order to be any kind of theist requires a couple of additional steps Major Nikon Oct 2019 #23

What is truth? C_U_L8R Oct 2019 #2

"Beauty is truth, truth beauty" edhopper Oct 2019 #11

There is god C_U_L8R Oct 2019 #12

Or not. Act_of_Reparation Oct 2019 #16

Truth is what, as a society, defines Cartaphelius Oct 2019 #80

Hot potato there! Newest Reality Oct 2019 #3

Theism: edhopper Oct 2019 #13

If by theism one means a god-being then yes clearly it is a delusion. Voltaire2 Oct 2019 #4

Apparently you are doing it wrong... NeoGreen Oct 2019 #6

Correct. trotsky Oct 2019 #8

Squishy post-enlightement apologetics are really no different from traditional apologetics. Act_of_Reparation Oct 2019 #17

totally agree. Voltaire2 Oct 2019 #18

What evidence would be sufficient... NeoGreen Oct 2019 #7

Hi edhopper - thank you for posting this interesting topic. Pendrench Oct 2019 #9

Thank you for not being offended edhopper Oct 2019 #14

Hi edhopper - I didn't see anything offensive about your question. Pendrench Oct 2019 #15

Try removing your emotional attachment and looking at it another way Major Nikon Oct 2019 #24

Hi Major Nikon - thank you for taking time to respond to my post. Pendrench Oct 2019 #32

Sounds a bit like doubt Major Nikon Oct 2019 #35

Hi Major Nikon - Thank you for your reply. Pendrench Oct 2019 #37

Exactly the opposite. Sorry for the misunderstanding. Major Nikon Oct 2019 #43

Hi Major Nikon - My apologies to you for misunderstanding your reply! Pendrench Oct 2019 #45

If you believe in a trickster god who doesn't particularly care for humanity... trotsky Oct 2019 #10

"All religion is delusion" said Freud. Bretton Garcia Oct 2019 #21

Theism essentially makes 3 progressively incredible claims Major Nikon Oct 2019 #22

Absolutely. (n/t) Iggo Oct 2019 #25

One of the unpleasant things from the get-go is the definition of theism... RockRaven Oct 2019 #26

Read Yuval Noah Harari's 21 Lessons for the 21st Century. applegrove Oct 2019 #27

I think it is. I am a Buddhist. Buddha said that greed, hate and delusion are not wasupaloopa Oct 2019 #28

Thanks for this thoughtful reply. edhopper Oct 2019 #31

Hi wasupaloopa - thank you for sharing this. Pendrench Oct 2019 #33

Why is ''I don't know" never a legitimate answer? YOHABLO Oct 2019 #29

It's perfectly edhopper Oct 2019 #30

Certainty in asserting the unprovable is delusion. guillaumeb Oct 2019 #34

So there are no religious beliefs that are delusions? edhopper Oct 2019 #36

My statement stands. guillaumeb Oct 2019 #38

And people who say their faith tells them edhopper Oct 2019 #39

The key word is faith. guillaumeb Oct 2019 #40

That's delusional edhopper Oct 2019 #41

The delusion may come when one is certain without proof. guillaumeb Oct 2019 #42

You don't want to answer if SOME theist are delusional then. edhopper Oct 2019 #46

My responses applied to theists and non-theists. guillaumeb Oct 2019 #47

So anyone with an absolute belief that God exists edhopper Oct 2019 #48

Anyone who does not recognize the limitations of belief. guillaumeb Oct 2019 #49

Then the formula is not balanced, as you pretend it is. AtheistCrusader Oct 2019 #70

I never link faith with proof. guillaumeb Oct 2019 #71

I feel like I'll be using your words a lot against you when we touch on 'proof' and 'certainty'. AtheistCrusader Oct 2019 #72

Faith requires no proof. guillaumeb Oct 2019 #73

Proof does not abrogate faith. They can be compatible. AtheistCrusader Oct 2019 #74

If the Creator was visible, and knowable to us, guillaumeb Oct 2019 #75

I disagree. AtheistCrusader Oct 2019 #78

Yes, we disagree. guillaumeb Oct 2019 #79

If you assert Russell's teapot isn't real, you are delusional Major Nikon Oct 2019 #44

Howard Dean says Bill Barr is delusional edhopper Oct 2019 #50

Last time I checked I could neither prove nor disprove Cary Oct 2019 #51

God aside, there are many, many religious beliefs edhopper Oct 2019 #52

True Cary Oct 2019 #53

It's a belief system that takes the place of what we don't know. docgee Oct 2019 #54

Plenty of people use theism in place of what we DO know. Act_of_Reparation Oct 2019 #55

You seem to be describing the "God of the Gaps"... NeoGreen Oct 2019 #56

Seems to be less of a delusion to buy into the mythology completely Major Nikon Oct 2019 #58

God of the gaps, yes. docgee Oct 2019 #61

Privilege Major Nikon Oct 2019 #65

Very true. Good point. docgee Oct 2019 #66

Religious belief isn't hypothesis Major Nikon Oct 2019 #57

Perhaps, but think about 3000 years ago the people who wondered why it rained. docgee Oct 2019 #60

It is incorrect to label any of their 'guesses' or 'speculation' about reality as a hypothesis... NeoGreen Oct 2019 #63

What you describe is mythology, not hypothesis Major Nikon Oct 2019 #64

It appears you and NeoGreen are correct: docgee Oct 2019 #68

2300 years ago people were thinking critically Voltaire2 Oct 2019 #67

The problem was then as it is now Major Nikon Oct 2019 #69

God of the gaps. Voltaire2 Oct 2019 #59

...and that god keeps getting smaller and smaller and smaller... Iggo Oct 2019 #62

It feels like it's generally true. dchill Oct 2019 #76

Deity is a concept vlyons Oct 2019 #77