Religion

marylandblue

(12,344 posts)

138. They don't think it means one thing and only one thing

Thu Jan 31, 2019, 02:35 PM

Jan 2019

They think the surface story is at least part of the meaning and/or the metaphor represents something awful. Adam blaming Eve for eating the fruit then getting to rule her is a metaphor for the real misogyny that was universal then and continues to this day. But it also gives this reality a divine sanction, thereby justifying and perpetuating it.

That some Christians today do not take the metaphor as a justification for misogyny does not change the fact that most people throughout history actually have taken it that way and it's also the most natural reading.

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When did God give man Free Will? [View all] edhopper Jan 2019 OP

or is free will and decision making part of the evolutionary process? Throck Jan 2019 #1

The creation of humans story is self-contradictory PJMcK Jan 2019 #2

But what about people like most Catholics edhopper Jan 2019 #14

"accept modern science" Act_of_Reparation Jan 2019 #24

Never mix religion and facts. It's not healthy. DetlefK Jan 2019 #3

Yet billions believe both. edhopper Jan 2019 #15

Well stated. Evidence-based science took quite a while to be accepted erronis Jan 2019 #105

Nonononono. You don't understand: The concept of evidence-based science didn't even exist back then. DetlefK Jan 2019 #118

I could have sworn that earlier civilizations figured out the movement of the stars, calculated the erronis Jan 2019 #121

This is "how", not "why". DetlefK Jan 2019 #122

"God" is just a game-playing sadist. Duppers Jan 2019 #4

My dogs know when they have been bad. Voltaire2 Jan 2019 #5

cats certainly have free will. rampartc Jan 2019 #31

Based upon your premise zipplewrath Jan 2019 #6

Not really. Adam EXERCISED free will by doing that. MineralMan Jan 2019 #8

Yeah, that's always been a flaw in the story zipplewrath Jan 2019 #9

Well, according to the myth, God told Adam and Eve not to eat MineralMan Jan 2019 #10

And it's the woman's fault zipplewrath Jan 2019 #11

LOL! True. MineralMan Jan 2019 #12

Oh ho! Lordquinton Jan 2019 #21

LOL! MineralMan Jan 2019 #22

... Lordquinton Jan 2019 #55

But there are billions who believe edhopper Jan 2019 #16

In various ways zipplewrath Jan 2019 #17

And my question for the first group edhopper Jan 2019 #19

The first group are engaged in dishonest Voltaire2 Jan 2019 #20

since the gods are creations of humans they have all the nasty human attributes msongs Jan 2019 #7

The people who use "free will" as a defense can't even prove we have it. trotsky Jan 2019 #13

Hate to have to prove it. zipplewrath Jan 2019 #18

I would simply refuse to make the argument. MineralMan Jan 2019 #25

Plot twist: instructor exercised free will and failed you Major Nikon Jan 2019 #26

OK. I would have anticipated that, but decided anyway. MineralMan Jan 2019 #27

A linguistics joke marylandblue Jan 2019 #30

Perfect! MineralMan Jan 2019 #36

You would invent a narrative that you chose Voltaire2 Jan 2019 #32

I'm going with 1980. Unsurprisingly, it makes more sense than any holy book. Pope George Ringo II Jan 2019 #23

Agree completely! democratisphere Jan 2019 #78

Several years ago, on a PBS special, the claim was made that the adaptation of a meat-based diet by in2herbs Jan 2019 #28

Animals can't think? Voltaire2 Jan 2019 #33

Animals are instinctive, they do not have the level of reasoning or critical thinking skills that in2herbs Jan 2019 #34

Actually, no. They can and do think and reason, MineralMan Jan 2019 #37

What animals made the scientific discovery for vaccines?? for going to the moon? The level of an in2herbs Jan 2019 #44

No question. We are the best at thinking and reasoning. MineralMan Jan 2019 #45

Ponder the self-awareness of a cat looking in a mirror and discovering it has ears. Pope George Ringo II Jan 2019 #47

I'd also point out that you're apparently arguing humans didn't "think" until the 20th Century... Pope George Ringo II Jan 2019 #49

Ok let's unpack that. Voltaire2 Jan 2019 #46

This ability is singular to humans and is what sets us apart from animals. Lordquinton Jan 2019 #56

What of carnivorous animals? MineralMan Jan 2019 #38

He explained it poorly edhopper Jan 2019 #41

Nope. Bigger brain more success at survival. MineralMan Jan 2019 #43

Homo needed to change the way it ate edhopper Jan 2019 #50

Cooking our food - whether animal or vegetable - was arguably more important. trotsky Jan 2019 #39

And communal sharing of food as well. edhopper Jan 2019 #42

Yes, absolutely. trotsky Jan 2019 #48

hey trotsky edhopper Jan 2019 #52

Exactly right. Which is yet another reason why libertarianism thucythucy Jan 2019 #76

Very true. LuvNewcastle Jan 2019 #106

The blog, The Conversation, has an article on that idea. Jim__ Jan 2019 #40

There is no free will... there is only allowed will. keithbvadu2 Jan 2019 #29

This description makes it sound like humans have no control over their lives and if we're without in2herbs Jan 2019 #35

'Allowed' decision-making capability. keithbvadu2 Jan 2019 #51

So is that what happened to Trump's SOTU, and marylandblue Jan 2019 #60

Nope. It makes Pelosi's decision approved by God... and Trump's decisions which come true. keithbvadu2 Jan 2019 #62

Our decision making capabilities may bit Voltaire2 Jan 2019 #57

Is there really such a thing? SoFlaDem Jan 2019 #53

Part of the problem is that there are a couple of concepts of MineralMan Jan 2019 #54

The question begged by all this for me, though... SoFlaDem Jan 2019 #69

I don't think about "free will" exclusively in a moral sense. MineralMan Jan 2019 #70

How do you know what your higher power wants? Voltaire2 Jan 2019 #75

I follow my conscience SoFlaDem Jan 2019 #77

Other true believers have followed their conscience, too. trotsky Jan 2019 #79

How does anyone know? SoFlaDem Jan 2019 #80

That's kind of the point. trotsky Jan 2019 #82

I think we mostly agree SoFlaDem Jan 2019 #83

Certainly humans often fervently believe they know what is "right"... trotsky Jan 2019 #84

I don't disagree with that. SoFlaDem Jan 2019 #85

The point is, you are making the implicit statement that your guiding "spiritual principles"... trotsky Jan 2019 #86

Are you saying SoFlaDem Jan 2019 #87

Nope, I'm saying that your faith-based method is no better or worse than any other. trotsky Jan 2019 #88

I've never claimed that. SoFlaDem Jan 2019 #90

Yes you did. trotsky Jan 2019 #91

Do you not believe in certain moral or logical principles to guide you? SoFlaDem Jan 2019 #92

Of course I do. trotsky Jan 2019 #120

Then you have no need of this alleged higher power. Voltaire2 Jan 2019 #81

I believe that I do SoFlaDem Jan 2019 #89

Still confused by what you've said. Voltaire2 Jan 2019 #93

No... SoFlaDem Jan 2019 #94

What you describe is you being the authority on The Good Voltaire2 Jan 2019 #95

Authority? SoFlaDem Jan 2019 #96

I don't think people understand the difference between belief and spiritual practice marylandblue Jan 2019 #100

I think you are right SoFlaDem Jan 2019 #103

If man is "created in the image and likeness", guillaumeb Jan 2019 #58

When did that occur? edhopper Jan 2019 #59

When we acquired what we call human sentience. guillaumeb Jan 2019 #61

So when did God do that edhopper Jan 2019 #63

The meaning of the name Adam shows metaphoric intent. guillaumeb Jan 2019 #98

All names in Hebrew have a meaning marylandblue Jan 2019 #104

The names Adam and Eve were not chosen at random. guillaumeb Jan 2019 #108

I'll say it another way marylandblue Jan 2019 #112

Life comes from the earth. guillaumeb Jan 2019 #113

Like I said, ALL hebrew names in the Bible have symbolic meanings marylandblue Jan 2019 #117

The phrases "first man" and "first woman" are used in other myths. guillaumeb Jan 2019 #126

"arguing about the intent of a writer or writers long dead." marylandblue Jan 2019 #128

I suggest only that it is metaphorical. guillaumeb Jan 2019 #130

Then stop calling those who disagree with you "literalists" marylandblue Jan 2019 #131

The term literalist is one that I use for those guillaumeb Jan 2019 #132

They don't think it means one thing and only one thing marylandblue Jan 2019 #138

Most likely edhopper Jan 2019 #123

Again edhopper Jan 2019 #107

When our ancestors acquired human sentience. guillaumeb Jan 2019 #109

So Neanderthal edhopper Jan 2019 #110

Neandertal had a large brain. guillaumeb Jan 2019 #111

So Neanderthal edhopper Jan 2019 #114

Are you certain that Neandertal had no creation stories? guillaumeb Jan 2019 #115

I forgot edhopper Jan 2019 #116

Off point. guillaumeb Jan 2019 #124

So God inspired them with edhopper Jan 2019 #133

Did they have creation stories? guillaumeb Jan 2019 #134

You are the one who brought up edhopper Jan 2019 #136

See your response 110. guillaumeb Jan 2019 #137

So just a way edhopper Jan 2019 #139

I did supply some ideas. guillaumeb Jan 2019 #140

So we weren't created in your creator's likeness, then. trotsky Jan 2019 #66

Oops. Major conflict there, Guy. MineralMan Jan 2019 #68

And Guy has repeatedly said elsewhere here that evolution is the only process, Voltaire2 Jan 2019 #71

Well, evolution is sort of a "needs must" sort of thing. MineralMan Jan 2019 #72

Sure I am not claiming it has to evolve elsewhere, just that it certainly can. Voltaire2 Jan 2019 #73

Absolutely. And probably has. MineralMan Jan 2019 #74

No conflict, just misunderstanding on your part. guillaumeb Jan 2019 #99

So god looks like a human? Voltaire2 Jan 2019 #64

Not what I said. guillaumeb Jan 2019 #97

It's exactly what you said. Voltaire2 Jan 2019 #119

Okay. Go with that. guillaumeb Jan 2019 #125

"The Creator freely created." - This is a completely unsupported and unsupportable claim. trotsky Jan 2019 #65

What "Creator?" MineralMan Jan 2019 #67

Free Will... Snackshack Jan 2019 #101

Everything a man or woman does is just automatic, done in a sleeping state. pangaia Jan 2019 #102

I got my free will True Dough Jan 2019 #127

Assumes facts not in evidence. shanny Jan 2019 #129

Assuming the concepts edhopper Jan 2019 #135