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Religion

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highplainsdem

(52,159 posts)
Sun Jan 13, 2019, 12:56 PM Jan 2019

I have nothing against people who don't believe in spirituality, but people who proselytize non- [View all]

belief can be every bit as tiring as religious fundamentalists proselytizing their belief systems.

Both IMO tend to seem insecure in their beliefs, apparently uncomfortable unless they can convert others to their belief systems, or at the very least try to beat them into the ground with ridicule, all the while warning anyone else who will listen about the alleged dangers of the belief system they're railing against. Both fundamentalist believers and fundamentalist non-believers tend to focus on everything bad they can pin on the belief system they oppose, and to ignore anything good that apparently came out of that belief, or non-belief.

It's been pointed out here, and elsewhere, that religion is basically a form of tribalism, and all kinds of beliefs including rigid non-belief can become forms of tribalism.

And it's the tribalism itself that defines and encourages conflicts.

If you look at the world's religions and spiritual belief systems and all you can see are the bad things that were done, then you're blinding yourself to way too much.

Likewise, you're blinding yourself if you look at people without any religious beliefs and choose to focus only on anything they do that you consider wrong, and blame it on their "godlessness."

Actions are more important then belief systems, let alone words and labels.

Actions that are helpful tend to spring from an empathy with others that is deeper than formal religious rules of conduct, deeper than coldly logical arguments about ethical behavior for non-believers.

You can argue all you want about whether the source of that empathy is something nebulous and beyond individuals, or strictly biological. But I think it's important to note that almost everyone would agree there's something very WRONG with any individual lacking in empathy, whether we define that person as "evil" or as "psychopathic."

And it's just an important to notice when tribalistic tendences get in the way of our own ability to empathize with others. Including those with different belief systems.

340 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
Non-believers don't proselytize - it's not a religion... KCDebbie Jan 2019 #1
Really? See this link: highplainsdem Jan 2019 #3
Richard Dawkins does not post on DU. MineralMan Jan 2019 #4
????? I don't recall suggesting that Dawkins ever posted here. highplainsdem Jan 2019 #8
Atheism is not a belief system PJMcK Jan 2019 #91
Actually, it is zipplewrath Jan 2019 #182
Boy, that is backwards thinking! PJMcK Jan 2019 #185
"One can't prove..." zipplewrath Jan 2019 #186
Atheism is not a belief. It is simply non-belief in a particular thing. MineralMan Jan 2019 #189
"I don't believe..." zipplewrath Jan 2019 #190
No, zipplewrath, I do not believe that any deities exist at all. MineralMan Jan 2019 #191
If that were so zipplewrath Jan 2019 #197
.. MineralMan Jan 2019 #198
Nonsense; one can lack an affirmative belief while still understanding the concept. I know what LongtimeAZDem Jan 2019 #204
Right zipplewrath Jan 2019 #206
As a result of the lack of evidence. We're back to Russell's Teapot LongtimeAZDem Jan 2019 #209
Well, outside of faith zipplewrath Jan 2019 #218
Conclusion in the absence of proof, is not belief, but "faith" LongtimeAZDem Jan 2019 #205
Basically the same thing zipplewrath Jan 2019 #207
No, they are not; this is the problem with arguing with the religious: the definitions keep changing LongtimeAZDem Jan 2019 #208
Not what I'm doing zipplewrath Jan 2019 #210
Then your conclusion is accurate, but meaningless. /nt LongtimeAZDem Jan 2019 #211
Not exactly zipplewrath Jan 2019 #212
Again, it's meaningless, since you pick and choose the definition of "believe" at will. /nt LongtimeAZDem Jan 2019 #214
In an attempt for clarity... NeoGreen Jan 2019 #215
In a great case if irony zipplewrath Jan 2019 #219
Apparently... NeoGreen Jan 2019 #220
Nope, you're completely wrong. trotsky Jan 2019 #237
Nope zipplewrath Jan 2019 #239
Depends on how the god is defined. trotsky Jan 2019 #241
How did I do that? zipplewrath Jan 2019 #242
You admitted that lacking belief in someone's brand new god is not a belief system in itself. trotsky Jan 2019 #243
Well, not what the OP was talking about zipplewrath Jan 2019 #245
But that's not what you originally argued. trotsky Jan 2019 #247
I believe I suggested "most" zipplewrath Jan 2019 #248
Nope, here's what you said in response to the claim "Atheism is not a belief system." trotsky Jan 2019 #249
In the context of the OP zipplewrath Jan 2019 #258
You didn't specify that at all. trotsky Jan 2019 #260
No I didn't zipplewrath Jan 2019 #262
Seems silly when your reply is addressing a specific statement made by another poster... trotsky Jan 2019 #265
Is your disbelief in the tooth fairy a belief system? Voltaire2 Jan 2019 #267
Not really zipplewrath Jan 2019 #268
Can you prove the tooth fairy doesn't exist? trotsky Jan 2019 #298
Roughly speaking zipplewrath Jan 2019 #299
So no, you can't conclusively prove it. trotsky Jan 2019 #300
Um, yes I can zipplewrath Jan 2019 #301
No, you can't. trotsky Jan 2019 #302
No zipplewrath Jan 2019 #303
Aha. There's actually lots of evidence against many gods. trotsky Jan 2019 #304
Nope zipplewrath Jan 2019 #306
So what you're saying is... trotsky Jan 2019 #307
All entities zipplewrath Jan 2019 #308
There's no way to prove one way or another that "no unicorns" exist. trotsky Jan 2019 #309
Actually zipplewrath Jan 2019 #310
No god has ever been seen, photographed, or physical evidence found either. trotsky Jan 2019 #311
No special exemption zipplewrath Jan 2019 #312
Yeah, that's exactly what you are defending. trotsky Jan 2019 #313
No zipplewrath Jan 2019 #314
If the assertion is that God edhopper Jan 2019 #321
Undetectable impact zipplewrath Jan 2019 #324
So the claim of atheists edhopper Jan 2019 #325
fine zipplewrath Jan 2019 #330
My experience edhopper Jan 2019 #331
Honestly, I've never encountered an atheist Mariana Jan 2019 #332
I have met many believers with doubts edhopper Jan 2019 #333
nonacceptance of deities zipplewrath Jan 2019 #334
Do you accept that bigfoot is real edhopper Jan 2019 #335
If you read the thread zipplewrath Jan 2019 #337
Description of deities edhopper Jan 2019 #338
If there is no way to know one way or another, then there is no reason to believe they are real. LongtimeAZDem Jan 2019 #339
It is not a conclusion Farmer-Rick Jan 2019 #277
covered this yesterday zipplewrath Jan 2019 #278
A question PJMcK Jan 2019 #286
Well, belief is the whole thing zipplewrath Jan 2019 #288
Atheists like to say that atheism is not a belief system, because it doesn't fit their self-image Fortinbras Armstrong Jan 2019 #285
That's just absolutely wrong PJMcK Jan 2019 #287
Be careful with that one. He's not honest. trotsky Jan 2019 #294
Good to know PJMcK Jan 2019 #295
If yoiu don't believe in a diety, then YOU prove it. Fortinbras Armstrong Jan 2019 #296
Once again, that's not how science works PJMcK Jan 2019 #297
Then prove that you're not a serial killer. You can't. LongtimeAZDem Jan 2019 #305
And your quite affirmative claim is "There is no God" Fortinbras Armstrong Jan 2019 #315
I do not claim 'There is no God' uriel1972 Jan 2019 #317
I need not claim; "there is no god"; I simply state that I lack the belief in a god. LongtimeAZDem Jan 2019 #318
I don't use the word belief edhopper Jan 2019 #323
I usually just say "I don't beilve in god". If they're open to duscission, I can clarify, LongtimeAZDem Jan 2019 #326
In a general conversation, yes edhopper Jan 2019 #327
Edhopper has a point. Mariana Jan 2019 #329
Sure, but once they do (outside of forum discussions like this) I just write them off. /nt LongtimeAZDem Jan 2019 #336
Not how scientifi method works edhopper Jan 2019 #322
"There's probably no God. Stop worrying and enjoy your life" Major Nikon Jan 2019 #12
I fainted while clutching my pearls. Voltaire2 Jan 2019 #25
See, that is every bit as tiring Mariana Jan 2019 #47
Yeah, a relative whisper of dissent over a system of opposition by the megawatt Major Nikon Jan 2019 #59
It's as tiring as a county government council paying six figures MineralMan Jan 2019 #216
Agree Irishxs Jan 2019 #213
Considering the source... NeoGreen Jan 2019 #21
Yeah man but they like voice their opinions on the Internet. trotsky Jan 2019 #164
Gosh, you're so right...how could anyone even think those aren't... NeoGreen Jan 2019 #165
There's no such proselytizing by non-believers. MineralMan Jan 2019 #2
See reply 3. And proselytizing doesn't refer only to formal religions or organizations. It can highplainsdem Jan 2019 #5
Or proselytizing the Democratic Party? MineralMan Jan 2019 #9
No, I'm not suggesting non-believers shut up. I'm recommending empathy. highplainsdem Jan 2019 #14
"There's probably no God. Stop worrying and enjoy your life" Major Nikon Jan 2019 #17
That's not proselytizing at all. It's just a gentle suggestion. MineralMan Jan 2019 #28
Stop worrying and enjoy your life violetpastille Jan 2019 #63
Probably not a good idea to sell Prada to a migrant worker either Major Nikon Jan 2019 #75
Psst...Over Here...I Have Some GENUINE Pradha bags for sale. MineralMan Jan 2019 #77
We don't disagree. violetpastille Jan 2019 #78
True Major Nikon Jan 2019 #85
When I lived in Penang violetpastille Jan 2019 #132
Possible doesn't mean likely Major Nikon Jan 2019 #134
As Western Europe becomes multi-cultural violetpastille Jan 2019 #140
You think advising people to stop worrying about gods or damnation is "empathy neutral"? muriel_volestrangler Jan 2019 #127
I didn't know. violetpastille Jan 2019 #133
The amusing part is that the their website domain has expired LongtimeAZDem Jan 2019 #159
Maybe they were raptured and no-one noticed ... (nt) muriel_volestrangler Jan 2019 #183
Amazing how the original bus ad doesn't get anyone's ire here... trotsky Jan 2019 #223
Which, of course, is the problem in a nutshell. Pope George Ringo II Jan 2019 #228
Even when the atheist one says "hey, that guy is probably wrong so don't worry!" trotsky Jan 2019 #232
Persecution, don't you know. Pope George Ringo II Jan 2019 #236
BOTH SIDES!!!!!111eleventyone trotsky Jan 2019 #238
How are you recommending empathy? MineralMan Jan 2019 #19
Empathy? No, no empathy. Sympathy perhaps. bitterross Jan 2019 #131
Or proselytizing for civil rights Major Nikon Jan 2019 #16
Oh, the horror! Racists just hate that, don't they? MineralMan Jan 2019 #20
Sure, and there's lots of other words that can literally refer to the same thing Major Nikon Jan 2019 #15
I used the word for the same reason the writer of this Daily Beast article highplainsdem Jan 2019 #23
I'm not doubting that Major Nikon Jan 2019 #30
So basically we are ok if we just shut up. Voltaire2 Jan 2019 #27
I'm glad I found my own path, years ago. However, I still glean from both sides. Siwsan Jan 2019 #6
+1,000,000 highplainsdem Jan 2019 #10
We're glad you did, too. MineralMan Jan 2019 #22
I have read some of your posts! Siwsan Jan 2019 #31
I didn't have to find or choose a path Major Nikon Jan 2019 #32
I did have religious beliefs, as a youngster. But, when I became an adult, I started reasoning MineralMan Jan 2019 #34
So you're saying that anyone with religious beliefs is illogical, childish, a disappointment to you? highplainsdem Jan 2019 #52
No. You're the one saying that I'm saying that. MineralMan Jan 2019 #53
You said very clearly that you threw off religious beliefs when you became an adult and could think highplainsdem Jan 2019 #56
.. MineralMan Jan 2019 #58
???? Not sure what you mean by that. But I wish you understood why your comments that adults who highplainsdem Jan 2019 #65
A frequent assertion. guillaumeb Jan 2019 #200
A theist may be childish or they may not... uriel1972 Jan 2019 #319
The poster is not the only one. guillaumeb Jan 2019 #201
That is not what he said. Mariana Jan 2019 #67
Thanks. I reread the post to which that was the reply. MineralMan Jan 2019 #69
So you're still saying that it's illogical to hold any religious belief, and you're disappointed in highplainsdem Jan 2019 #70
No. I said exactly what I meant. You are adding words to what I said. MineralMan Jan 2019 #72
Your statement made it clear that you believe reasoning, logical adults should throw off religious highplainsdem Jan 2019 #79
.. MineralMan Jan 2019 #80
Is atheism a religion? Didn't know that. Dream Girl Jan 2019 #39
Nope. It can't be. MineralMan Jan 2019 #40
You have a narrow view of religion. I believe in a higher power and I'm relaxing in bed this Dream Girl Jan 2019 #61
I have my own personal view of religion. MineralMan Jan 2019 #64
My views are fairly similar to yours. I went from a childhood in a major religion to agnostic, highplainsdem Jan 2019 #68
"Mr. Science"? Lulzd. Voltaire2 Jan 2019 #135
Not really the place of science to explain metaphysical abstract concepts Major Nikon Jan 2019 #144
Bingo! Thank you for your wisdom so beautifully stated. cornball 24 Jan 2019 #139
Atheism is about acceptance. PassingFair Jan 2019 #340
Not a religion, but a belief system. highplainsdem Jan 2019 #62
Not even a system. MineralMan Jan 2019 #66
Whatabout those who proselytize against the proselytizers who proselytize against the proselytizers? Major Nikon Jan 2019 #7
Lost me. Duppers Jan 2019 #11
I don't like being "explained" to anyone. LakeArenal Jan 2019 #13
Especially the newly converted whether from religious to non-religious or non-r to religious. keithbvadu2 Jan 2019 #18
Non-belief isn't a belief Major Nikon Jan 2019 #24
Those who believe there is no God have a belief system. keithbvadu2 Jan 2019 #33
I believe I'll have another beer Major Nikon Jan 2019 #37
"and more generally includes" - meaning it does not have to include keithbvadu2 Jan 2019 #44
"belief system" requires a set of beliefs at a minimum Major Nikon Jan 2019 #54
Those who don't believe there is any such thing as deities, though, MineralMan Jan 2019 #42
As MJ said: "You were born an atheist. That is the default condition. You did not have a belief syst keithbvadu2 Jan 2019 #49
You're funny... MineralMan Jan 2019 #51
How could someone decide to be an atheist? Mariana Jan 2019 #71
" If the answer isn't Yes", (or it is), you have decided. keithbvadu2 Jan 2019 #73
Does this reasoning apply to everything one believes or disbelieves? Mariana Jan 2019 #83
Your rhetorical questions keithbvadu2 Jan 2019 #84
You really should speak for yourself. Mariana Jan 2019 #93
"if I don't believe it's real. " keithbvadu2 Jan 2019 #95
Or they can reject belief without believing anything Major Nikon Jan 2019 #117
What other outcomes are there? keithbvadu2 Jan 2019 #118
I have already told you and prominently put it in the subject line Major Nikon Jan 2019 #119
Link? keithbvadu2 Jan 2019 #121
Link Major Nikon Jan 2019 #124
So you didn't post it after all. OK keithbvadu2 Jan 2019 #125
Link? Major Nikon Jan 2019 #128
False dilemma Major Nikon Jan 2019 #113
Kids seem to believe all sorts of things automatically marylandblue Jan 2019 #126
I agree we can decide to question beliefs and examine evidence. Mariana Jan 2019 #138
Did you choose not to believe in leprechauns? Major Nikon Jan 2019 #81
other imagined things? keithbvadu2 Jan 2019 #82
Bertrand Russell... NeoGreen Jan 2019 #86
Thanks keithbvadu2 Jan 2019 #122
Do you doubt anyone can come up with an infinite number of not real things? Major Nikon Jan 2019 #87
"conflating real things" keithbvadu2 Jan 2019 #97
Nor did I mention them. You did. Major Nikon Jan 2019 #100
Link? keithbvadu2 Jan 2019 #101
Really? Major Nikon Jan 2019 #102
Funny that they were not real things at the time. keithbvadu2 Jan 2019 #103
Yes, well evidence does that for ya Major Nikon Jan 2019 #106
OK keithbvadu2 Jan 2019 #109
You seem to be saying you disbelieve that people went to the moon Mariana Jan 2019 #89
that anyone 'could go' to the moon keithbvadu2 Jan 2019 #94
There "could be" a god. Mariana Jan 2019 #99
You believe that there could be. keithbvadu2 Jan 2019 #105
Why don't you answer any of my questions? nt. Mariana Jan 2019 #108
Your post 99 was not a question keithbvadu2 Jan 2019 #111
"There "could be" a god." keithbvadu2 Jan 2019 #116
Sure, there's also people who think the earth is flat Major Nikon Jan 2019 #104
"unfalsifiable claims" keithbvadu2 Jan 2019 #107
Neither one of those is an unfalsifiable claim Major Nikon Jan 2019 #110
That was my point. Sorry you missed it. keithbvadu2 Jan 2019 #112
I've been telling you I've been missing your point all along Major Nikon Jan 2019 #114
You wrote... tonedevil Jan 2019 #136
If you believe you are an atheist, you believe something. keithbvadu2 Jan 2019 #137
Well sure. MarvinGardens Jan 2019 #141
What makes you think I belive... tonedevil Jan 2019 #152
Do you understand the difference between "innocent" and "not guilty"? LongtimeAZDem Jan 2019 #129
It shouldn't have to be explained more than once, at any rate. Mariana Jan 2019 #153
That may be true... uriel1972 Jan 2019 #316
Agreed Snackshack Jan 2019 #74
There will always be a label for those on the outside looking in Major Nikon Jan 2019 #76
We could make up words: :Anelvisist" or "Analienist" MineralMan Jan 2019 #92
oooh oooh uriel1972 Jan 2019 #320
Agree. I've seen that in my family, with both outspoken atheists and outspoken evangelicals who've highplainsdem Jan 2019 #26
The worst zipplewrath Jan 2019 #184
I think I'll go engage in my hobby of Not Collecting Stamps. Iggo Jan 2019 #29
Enjoy your hobbies! MineralMan Jan 2019 #35
. Iggo Jan 2019 #36
The nice thing about hobbies like that is that MineralMan Jan 2019 #38
And they're the easiest hobbies to master. Iggo Jan 2019 #43
Yes, indeed. MineralMan Jan 2019 #45
And we don't have to dust the trophies keithbvadu2 Jan 2019 #57
But deciding the believer zipplewrath Jan 2019 #199
I make no claim. The believer makes the claim. Iggo Jan 2019 #224
As long as there is no counter claim zipplewrath Jan 2019 #225
I don't have a problem saying that some deity of some sort somewhere may exist. Pope George Ringo II Jan 2019 #233
Well, we would zipplewrath Jan 2019 #235
I'd suggest that if quantum mechanics were easier for most, they'd gravitate that way. Pope George Ringo II Jan 2019 #240
Magical thinking is quite common zipplewrath Jan 2019 #261
I've watched my share of postgame interviews. Pope George Ringo II Jan 2019 #263
Belief in "momentum" zipplewrath Jan 2019 #271
I blame the announcers for that one. Pope George Ringo II Jan 2019 #272
No counterclaim needs to be made. Iggo Jan 2019 #253
I agree 100%... ADX Jan 2019 #41
But Mama, that's where the fun is. Iggo Jan 2019 #46
Yeah, you've got a point there... ADX Jan 2019 #48
Thank you for understanding what I was saying. highplainsdem Jan 2019 #60
Thank you for saying what I was understanding... ADX Jan 2019 #120
It is not tiring to me. That is because I am not religious. You are I suppose so you do not want wasupaloopa Jan 2019 #50
The poster has given one extremely weak example Mariana Jan 2019 #98
I'm not religious. I haven't belonged to any religion since my teens. But I know people who are highplainsdem Jan 2019 #123
If someone believed in a superstition could wasupaloopa Jan 2019 #273
There are just different types of people where religion is concerned - who wudda thunk it? Freelancer Jan 2019 #55
Liberalism by definition it seems at first, can't be dogmatic or militant. Bretton Garcia Jan 2019 #88
Six and a half billion people on this planet, now, beleive in a Supreme Being, a Higher Power or a demosincebirth Jan 2019 #90
And that majority likes to crush the atheist minority. Bretton Garcia Jan 2019 #115
Why does something you don't believe in bother you so much? demosincebirth Jan 2019 #143
And yet many Catholics do impose their views on others Major Nikon Jan 2019 #146
You paint with a wide brush. Old saying, "point a demosincebirth Jan 2019 #151
I wonder, would you say that to a member Mariana Jan 2019 #155
I have a very large family, 99% Catholic, three gay and all liberal, but not in all sense. demosincebirth Jan 2019 #280
The majority of Catholics in this country voted for Trump in 2016. Mariana Jan 2019 #284
Had I said all Catholics, you might have something Major Nikon Jan 2019 #162
Religion is very real, and it has an effect on all our lives. Mariana Jan 2019 #154
What makes you say that? Eko Jan 2019 #130
You know what I mean demosincebirth Jan 2019 #142
It sounds like what you mean is religion has been around since humans have Major Nikon Jan 2019 #145
Depends on what you mean by religion marylandblue Jan 2019 #175
The earliest evidence is burial rituals Major Nikon Jan 2019 #180
Yes burial rituals, but also modern hunter gatherer societies provide evidence marylandblue Jan 2019 #187
I never mentioned religion demosincebirth Jan 2019 #281
Whatever you want to call it Major Nikon Jan 2019 #282
Yes I do. Eko Jan 2019 #148
Pretty clear what you mean. trotsky Jan 2019 #163
Interesting post, and I appreeciate what I believe are your intentios. Regarding the difference c-rational Jan 2019 #96
Maybe they are just talking to themselves in a form of self persuasion. littlemissmartypants Jan 2019 #147
You are right. Eko Jan 2019 #149
I am not sure what your point is but my reference does not littlemissmartypants Jan 2019 #150
My point is that out of "humbleness" Eko Jan 2019 #156
Twisted. How are being humble and empathetic counterintuitive? littlemissmartypants Jan 2019 #157
Judging you? Eko Jan 2019 #158
I guess some people will just never get it. littlemissmartypants Jan 2019 #161
You said that in humbleness, right? Mariana Jan 2019 #169
With empathy also. Eko Jan 2019 #244
Totally. littlemissmartypants Jan 2019 #270
#notallwhitepeople? Act_of_Reparation Jan 2019 #160
????????????????? highplainsdem Jan 2019 #168
Confused? Act_of_Reparation Jan 2019 #170
No, I post question marks as an emoji for certainty. highplainsdem Jan 2019 #172
Good. Act_of_Reparation Jan 2019 #173
Making a sandwich will add just about as much to this discussion as a deliberately cryptic remark. highplainsdem Jan 2019 #174
I will assure you everyone who needs to know what it means knows what it means. Act_of_Reparation Jan 2019 #176
Oh, it's a forum in-joke for people who agree with you. How helpful to any discussion in a public highplainsdem Jan 2019 #178
You're half right. Act_of_Reparation Jan 2019 #188
I think I get where you are coming from. MarvinGardens Jan 2019 #166
Time to dust off this old classic again... trotsky Jan 2019 #167
That old classic doesn't apply to my OP, since I made it very clear I wasn't highplainsdem Jan 2019 #171
Great post... ADX Jan 2019 #179
You are absolutely right. trotsky Jan 2019 #193
No one should engage anyone who doesn't want to be engaged... ADX Jan 2019 #217
Uh, by being here in this open forum where all viewpoints are welcome, you are asking to be engaged. trotsky Jan 2019 #222
What the actual fuck's going on here is that in your zeal to attempt to prove some kind of point... ADX Jan 2019 #226
Thanks for the condescension! The OP compares atheists speaking negative opinions about religion... trotsky Jan 2019 #229
Condescension? Seriously? LMAO. This from someone who literally posted a dripping sarcasm smiley... ADX Jan 2019 #250
So ironic. trotsky Jan 2019 #252
First off my "rules" aren't universal, they're my opinions... ADX Jan 2019 #254
Oh OK. Got it. "Rules for thee, not for me." trotsky Jan 2019 #255
Thanks, Mr. Kettle! ADX Jan 2019 #256
Any time, Mr. Pot. trotsky Jan 2019 #259
Nope, I didn't forget... ADX Jan 2019 #264
Oh dear. trotsky Jan 2019 #266
Oh dear... ADX Jan 2019 #269
Apparently you didn't understand what that saying means. trotsky Jan 2019 #275
Post removed Post removed Jan 2019 #289
"I hope you get the help you need"?? trotsky Jan 2019 #290
Who said anything about mental illness? ADX Jan 2019 #291
Doubling down on the abuse. An interesting tactic. trotsky Jan 2019 #292
Uh huh. trotsky Jan 2019 #192
LOL highplainsdem Jan 2019 #194
For real, take a good look at what you've posted. trotsky Jan 2019 #196
No, that excerpt was posted as an example of the words "proselytize" and "evangelize" being used highplainsdem Jan 2019 #203
And the "tone" of saying "we're here" is the same as that of the TV preacher? trotsky Jan 2019 #221
Again: I have nothing against atheists, and there's nothing wrong with making a case for your highplainsdem Jan 2019 #227
But that's exactly what your OP said. trotsky Jan 2019 #230
Of course they are identical, Trotsky! Mariana Jan 2019 #231
Two sides of the same coin, CLEARLY!! trotsky Jan 2019 #234
Do you agree with everything that Obama, Biden and Clinton have done? Eko Jan 2019 #246
Far better if this "classic" had some relevance. guillaumeb Jan 2019 #274
You have convinced yourself. trotsky Jan 2019 #276
I would argue that genuine proselytizing by atheists is wrong, but rare LongtimeAZDem Jan 2019 #177
I defer to the master...Mr. Carlin, take it away... Moostache Jan 2019 #181
Everything before the 'but' is... NeoGreen Jan 2019 #195
Yeah LongtimeAZDem Jan 2019 #257
Recommended. guillaumeb Jan 2019 #202
This message was self-deleted by its author Kurt V. Jan 2019 #251
"I have nothing against people who don't believe in conservatism, but people who proselytize... trotsky Jan 2019 #279
Ouch dude... NeoGreen Jan 2019 #283
Well, I'm clearly Sam Elliott. A HERETIC I AM Jan 2019 #293
Sweet essay. Crutchez_CuiBono Jan 2019 #328
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