Religion

Voltaire2

(14,424 posts)

73. Yes the "historical jesus" dodge substitutes

Fri Dec 7, 2018, 07:13 AM

Dec 2018

a plausible “story” to argue “well this could have happened” and then skips back to the actual “core story” now backed by an historical jesus.

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So, Was Jesus Just a Metaphor? [View all] MineralMan Dec 2018 OP

Just another hero myth archetype JenniferJuniper Dec 2018 #1

So Joseph Campbell would say, I'm sure. MineralMan Dec 2018 #10

I love the Bill Moyers discussion with Joseph Campbell. in2herbs Dec 2018 #26

That can be extended to Moses, Mohammed, Buddha, etc still_one Dec 2018 #2

That's the question, isn't it? MineralMan Dec 2018 #8

For some answers archeology still_one Dec 2018 #23

I'm pretty sure The Buddha was a real historical person. rickford66 Dec 2018 #79

which one? still_one Dec 2018 #82

The bible was written by men.... Catamount Dec 2018 #3

Oh, I've made up my mind. MineralMan Dec 2018 #9

And men (perhaps a few women) that saw some light and then saw another erronis Dec 2018 #29

Jonah? Religions are akin to folklore where stories are retold to make points... TreasonousBastard Dec 2018 #4

Paul Bunyan? MineralMan Dec 2018 #6

Oooh. I'd forgotten about Paul Bunyan, the giant among men - obviously a GOD. erronis Dec 2018 #30

Episcopalian Bishop John Shelby Strong takes that position marylandblue Dec 2018 #5

Yes, he does. MineralMan Dec 2018 #7

That's why religion is more than just a bunch of beliefs and metaphors marylandblue Dec 2018 #13

Yah, well, ok. MineralMan Dec 2018 #14

Not impressed, huh? Maybe I'll put that idea an in an OP someday. marylandblue Dec 2018 #15

Please do. MineralMan Dec 2018 #19

But religion is also used to enforce conformity and penalize heretics - shunning, murder, etc. erronis Dec 2018 #33

Didn't say it was "just" shared meaning marylandblue Dec 2018 #41

I really appreciate your sincerity. Thanks for hanging in there with a bunch of contrarians! erronis Dec 2018 #45

Thanks. You're welcome. Cheers. marylandblue Dec 2018 #53

We tried to have that discussion once Lordquinton Dec 2018 #87

Separating what should be taken metaphorically from what what should be taken literally is easy The Genealogist Dec 2018 #11

I Can't buy that. MineralMan Dec 2018 #12

Which part? The Genealogist Dec 2018 #16

Any of it. MineralMan Dec 2018 #17

Some events in the Bible are historically confirmed marylandblue Dec 2018 #20

OK. That does not mean the rest is true. MineralMan Dec 2018 #24

Yes, that's true, but now that I think about it, metaphor is the wrong description marylandblue Dec 2018 #42

Israelite King Omri is mentioned in the Mesha Stele The Genealogist Dec 2018 #28

Historically confirmed events are not proof of supernatural causations Bradshaw3 Dec 2018 #62

I didn't say they were. marylandblue Dec 2018 #64

Then what's the point of bringing them up? Bradshaw3 Dec 2018 #65

Because historians use the Bible as an historical source marylandblue Dec 2018 #66

"Biblical historians" do that. Voltaire2 Dec 2018 #74

ok, whatever. marylandblue Dec 2018 #75

There is a much broader area of history Voltaire2 Dec 2018 #86

I am still not really sure what your point is. marylandblue Dec 2018 #89

That is my conclusion as well. The Genealogist Dec 2018 #21

Expressing your personal opinion as a fact? guillaumeb Dec 2018 #31

Try telling that to those that are being burnt at a stake or having their heads lopped off. erronis Dec 2018 #35

I'd love how someone could twist "beat your slave, but don't kill them" into being metaphorical. Oneironaut Dec 2018 #40

There are some who try to parse the wheat from the chaff Major Nikon Dec 2018 #18

Yes. Jefferson extracted the common moral MineralMan Dec 2018 #22

I think I heard somewhere There was a big flood at the time of the Noah myth. LakeArenal Dec 2018 #25

Um. No. Voltaire2 Dec 2018 #43

? LakeArenal Dec 2018 #44

Where have I been? saidsimplesimon Dec 2018 #27

There are few references to Jesus in pagan writings Raven123 Dec 2018 #32

And those sources you reference substantiated their writings? erronis Dec 2018 #39

All of that was written later. MineralMan Dec 2018 #52

More research on Flavius Josephus should make you question him as a resource Bradshaw3 Dec 2018 #60

Interesting point. Who were the chroniclers? Raven123 Dec 2018 #67

I can give a couple Bradshaw3 Dec 2018 #70

I am aware of Philo, but not Gallio Raven123 Dec 2018 #71

Josephus was Jewish. Act_of_Reparation Dec 2018 #69

Point taken. However inthis minds of some "was" is the operative. They viewed him as a traitor. Raven123 Dec 2018 #72

Probably not, but why do you care??? Let people believe what they want. Dream Girl Dec 2018 #34

Why do you ask? MineralMan Dec 2018 #37

This is the Religion Group. We discuss religion here. Mariana Dec 2018 #48

Subtext is if you believe in God you are really not too bright... Dream Girl Dec 2018 #49

I don't think that's true. Mariana Dec 2018 #50

No subtext. It's a valid question. MineralMan Dec 2018 #51

Well there is a correlation. Voltaire2 Dec 2018 #54

There was a flood... Mike Nelson Dec 2018 #36

There are many myths. MineralMan Dec 2018 #38

Jesus is probably like Robin Hood; there was probably at least one real person at the core LongtimeAZDem Dec 2018 #46

Could be. MineralMan Dec 2018 #47

In what sense? Voltaire2 Dec 2018 #55

True. Robin Hood was just a guy who MineralMan Dec 2018 #56

There's plenty of archeological evidence of zombie prevention methods Major Nikon Dec 2018 #57

There was probably a preacher named Jesus or a variant who gained some notoriety; that story LongtimeAZDem Dec 2018 #58

There were lots of "preachers". Voltaire2 Dec 2018 #59

The historical core would have no miraculous elements marylandblue Dec 2018 #63

Yes the "historical jesus" dodge substitutes Voltaire2 Dec 2018 #73

I am not sure why this is a dodge marylandblue Dec 2018 #76

It is a dodge for exactly the reasons I stated. Voltaire2 Dec 2018 #85

Socrates is actually pretty well documented as ancient people go marylandblue Dec 2018 #88

Some may be true but those events have nothing to do with the supernatural Bradshaw3 Dec 2018 #61

I'm glad you hang out with us and ask the hard questions, littlemissmartypants Dec 2018 #68

Hey, thanks! MineralMan Dec 2018 #83

No. Jesus is an exclamation of shock. Kablooie Dec 2018 #77

All communication is metaphorical Loki Liesmith Dec 2018 #78

"To be truthful means to employ the usual metaphors." - Nietzsche Jim__ Dec 2018 #81

💡 underpants Dec 2018 #80

That switch cover! Occasionally one shows up on eBay. MineralMan Dec 2018 #84