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Gun Control & RKBA

In reply to the discussion: The RKBA v Tyranny [View all]

jimmy the one

(2,720 posts)
32. churchill's remarks suitable for britons, but not others
Tue Feb 6, 2018, 11:44 AM
Feb 2018

discntnt cites churchill: …if you will not fight for the right when you can easily win without bloodshed; if you will not fight when your victory will be sure and not too costly; you may come to the moment when you will have to fight with all the odds against you and only a precarious chance of survival. There may even be a worse case. You may have to fight when there is no hope of victory, because it is better to perish than to live as slaves.

Churchill was writing about the belated British guarantee to Poland in early 1939, after Hitler had absorbed the rump of Czechoslovakia, which he had promised to respect six months earlier at Munich. See Churchill, The Second World War, vol. 1, The Gathering Storm https://richardlangworth.com/if-you-will-not-fightwhen-you-can-easily-win

Churchill was referring to the British army & territorial home guard & Chamberlains' appeasement approach, not the civilian populace of the UK taking up arms, outside able bodied men.

churchill, jun 4, 1940: We shall go on to the end. We shall fight in France, we shall fight on the seas and oceans, we shall fight with growing confidence and growing strength in the air, we shall defend our island, whatever the cost may be. We shall fight on the beaches, we shall fight on the landing grounds, we shall fight in the fields and in the streets, we shall fight in the hills; we shall never surrender, and if, which I do not for a moment believe, this island or a large part of it were subjugated and starving, then our Empire beyond the seas, armed and guarded by the British Fleet, would carry on the struggle, ________________________________________

You evidently aren't aware of Churhill's racist tendencies towards several ethnic groups & nationalities, for which he wasn't so concerned about them becoming slaves, & to which I doubt he would've proffered the same fight song advice as he did to his own british people.

Churchill's racism was wrapped up in his Tory zeal for empire, one which irked his wartime ally, U.S. President Franklin D. Roosevelt. As a junior member of parliament, Churchill had cheered on Britain's plan for more conquests, insisting that its "Aryan stock is bound to triumph." It's strange to celebrate his bravado in the face of Hitler's war machine and not consider his wider thinking on other parts of the world. After all, these are places that, just like Europe and the West, still live with the legacy of Churchill's and Britain's actions at the time.
India, Britain's most important colonial possession, most animated Churchill. He despised the Indian independence movement and its spiritual leader, Mahatma Gandhi, whom he described as "half-naked" and labeled a "seditious fakir," or holy man. Most notoriously, Churchill presided over the hideous 1943 famine in Bengal, where some 3 million Indians perished, largely as a result of British imperial mismanagement. Churchill was both indifferent to the Indian plight and even mocked the millions suffering, chuckling over the culling of a population that bred "like rabbits."
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2015/02/03/the-dark-side-of-winston-churchills-legacy-no-one-should-forget/?utm_term=.23caf0206111

As the Indian writer Pankaj Mishra explains in the New Yorker, Churchill was one of a coterie of imperial rulers who worked to create sectarian fissures within India's independence movement between Indian Hindus and Muslims, which led to the brutal partition of India when the former colony finally did win its freedom in 1947.
"I hate Indians," he once trumpeted. "They are a beastly people with a beastly religion."

He referred to Palestinians as "barbaric hordes who ate little but camel dung." When quashing insurgents in Sudan in the earlier days of his imperial career, Churchill boasted of killing three "savages." Contemplating restive populations in northwest Asia, he infamously lamented the "squeamishness" of his colleagues, who were not in "favor of using poisoned gas against uncivilized tribes."


He also thought blacks inferior to whites. In the best defense of churchill I can muster so as not to merely belittle him - he was particularly suited for backing into wartime leadership after munich's appeasement failed, and jim crow racist tendencies were more 'en vogue' in the early 1900's; indeed, the KKK was considered mainstream america in the 1920's, sometimes marching down constitution avenue in washington DC, to throngs of cheering supporters.

churchill in OP likely referring to britons: You may have to fight when there is no hope of victory, because it is better to perish than to live as slaves

Rule Brittania, England's patriot song:
The nations, not so blest as thee, Must, in their turns, to tyrants fall;
While thou shalt flourish great and free, The dread and envy of them all.
"Rule, Britannia! rule the waves: "Britons never never never will be slaves."

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

The RKBA v Tyranny [View all] discntnt_irny_srcsm Jan 2018 OP
So, if Mueller gets fired, you got plans? Girard442 Jan 2018 #1
Plans? discntnt_irny_srcsm Jan 2018 #2
What are *your* plans in such a case? friendly_iconoclast Jan 2018 #3
Yeah, one helluva job RKBA is doing, combatting the onset of tyranny in the U.S. Paladin Jan 2018 #4
It sounds as if you're saying that pro-RKBA democrats voted for trump discntnt_irny_srcsm Jan 2018 #5
I stand by my comments. Nothing I can do about your interpretation of them. (nt) Paladin Jan 2018 #6
Everyone has an absolute right to an opinion and to express it discntnt_irny_srcsm Jan 2018 #7
Best wishes for your weekend as well. (nt) Paladin Jan 2018 #8
Thanks discntnt_irny_srcsm Jan 2018 #9
Were I you, I wouldn't elaborate on my comments either, as they raise some inconvenient questions friendly_iconoclast Jan 2018 #11
The US doesn't *quite* have a totally degenerate government (for now, anyway), so... friendly_iconoclast Jan 2018 #10
I live in New Jersey discntnt_irny_srcsm Jan 2018 #12
They will be after your shoestrings, next... yagotme Jan 2018 #13
If only there was a rich high status individual... discntnt_irny_srcsm Jan 2018 #14
Yep, if a state/local gov't wants to rake in some cash, yagotme Jan 2018 #15
Good post. One of the best in this thread. Alea Feb 2018 #36
I have never heard a convincing argument for the ops point. Buzz cook Jan 2018 #16
Partly because, gejohnston Jan 2018 #17
Sorry but that's revisionist history. Buzz cook Feb 2018 #19
no it isn't gejohnston Feb 2018 #21
There was a positive claim made. Buzz cook Feb 2018 #24
I believe the claim is that gejohnston Feb 2018 #28
There is no negative to prove Buzz cook Feb 2018 #29
re: "...it shows that they lack the ability to engage in the ideas, or doubt the strength..." discntnt_irny_srcsm Feb 2018 #35
re: "I have never heard a convincing argument for the ops point." discntnt_irny_srcsm Jan 2018 #18
I'm sure you think you make sense. Buzz cook Feb 2018 #20
Privately-owned firearms damn sure aren't stopping tyranny, right now. Paladin Feb 2018 #22
No you're exactly right. Buzz cook Feb 2018 #26
I always try to make sense and I sometimes succeed discntnt_irny_srcsm Feb 2018 #23
False Dichotomy. Buzz cook Feb 2018 #25
And where did I say that arms were the only requirement in revolution? discntnt_irny_srcsm Feb 2018 #27
Quote"I have stated in the past that the individual RKBA is a safeguard against tyranny."unquote Buzz cook Feb 2018 #30
re: "Have fun at work." discntnt_irny_srcsm Feb 2018 #31
churchill's remarks suitable for britons, but not others jimmy the one Feb 2018 #32
Moving the discussion from the U.S. Civil War to WWII? Paladin Feb 2018 #33
okay yeah discntnt_irny_srcsm Feb 2018 #34
rambling wreck jimmy the one Feb 2018 #37
re: "rambling wreck" agreed, you are discntnt_irny_srcsm Feb 2018 #38
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