Addiction & Recovery

RockRaven

(16,860 posts)

5. There is a lot of magical thinking/statements around the 12 steps...

Sat Jun 29, 2019, 02:13 AM

Jun 2019

The question ought to be: what *specifically* is empirically/demonstrably, reliably/reproducibly effective?

12-step advocates, including celebrity commentators like Dr Drew, vastly over-sell the predictive value of engaging in those programs.

That said, if the choice is the 12-step program or the addict making it up themselves as they go along, then duh! of course anything structured with other people involved is better than handling it yourself. Humans are social primates for f--k's sake, having other people involved with the intent of helping you is always better -- pick almost any maladaptive behavioral problem and that would be true.

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Secret of AA: After 75 Years, We Don't Know How It Works [View all] Rhiannon12866 Jun 2019 OP

one day at a time rampartc Jun 2019 #1

When I started going to meetings, that's what worked for me Rhiannon12866 Jun 2019 #3

good work. rampartc Jun 2019 #4

I wish I could access DU.2 Rhiannon12866 Jun 2019 #9

I know that AA and NA don't work for everybody, TexasTowelie Jun 2019 #2

That's actually where I got stuck - the "faith" component Rhiannon12866 Jun 2019 #6

I don't remember if you told me about your sponsor passing, TexasTowelie Jun 2019 #11

Thank you so much - I miss her every single day. :( Rhiannon12866 Jun 2019 #13

There is a lot of magical thinking/statements around the 12 steps... RockRaven Jun 2019 #5

I agree that making it up as you go along is what can trip beginners up Rhiannon12866 Jun 2019 #7

the final thought expressed there stopdiggin Jun 2019 #8

One thing that I've noticed - talked about it with some friends today Rhiannon12866 Jun 2019 #10

and you have my support 100% stopdiggin Jun 2019 #12

Thanks! Rhiannon12866 Jun 2019 #14

AA is a religious organization. "The higher power" requirement Funtatlaguy Jun 2019 #15

Not at any group that I've been to Rhiannon12866 Jun 2019 #16

Every one I've been to, they recite The Serenity Prayer Funtatlaguy Jun 2019 #21

I know, most do say the Serenity Prayer and some decide to close with the Lord's Prayer Rhiannon12866 Jul 2019 #39

Plenty of atheists in AA. It means a power greater than yourself. JDC Jun 2019 #18

Yep. That's what tell you to find. A tree, a bird, blah blah. Funtatlaguy Jun 2019 #20

Well, why can't you turn your will and life over to the care of a tree? (Step 3) progree Jun 2019 #22

Chapter 5 in the AA Big Book is literally called "How it Works" JDC Jun 2019 #17

We read "How It Works" at every meeting I've ever been to Rhiannon12866 Jun 2019 #19

I know that AA has helped many people Funtatlaguy Jun 2019 #23

Nothing religious about it anywhere I've been, despite what the courts say. Clearly progree Jun 2019 #25

Ummm...#3 is right out of a Baptist hymnal Funtatlaguy Jun 2019 #26

I see it as religion too, but I know I must be mistaken progree Jun 2019 #27

"some are incapable of being honest with themselves, they are the unfortunate ones, they seem to demosincebirth Nov 2019 #40

AA Comatose Sphagetti Jun 2019 #24

It doesn't work for those who don't believe in the Bible. lark Jun 2019 #28

Well, it's worked for me and I'm pretty much an atheist, too. Rhiannon12866 Jun 2019 #30

I'm glad you found a good group that helps you. lark Jun 2019 #31

Your son cannot legally be coerced into a religious program. Many have fought for that right progree Jun 2019 #32

In NE FL courts were still doing this in 2008. lark Jun 2019 #33

Yes, one has to fight these, unfortunately progree Jun 2019 #34

Hopefully my son will stay out of jail, but unfortunately that's not a given. lark Jun 2019 #35

I hope so too. progree Jun 2019 #36

This message was self-deleted by its author happyaccident Jun 2019 #29

The secret: "Keep Coming Back" Iggo Jul 2019 #37

I'm pretty sure that all the As say that! Rhiannon12866 Jul 2019 #38

6 Words for me...Serenity Prayer, Keep Coming Back, Listen Stuart G Nov 2019 #41