Feminists

stevenleser

(32,886 posts)

78. I read that article when it came out. I'm a big fan of hers and have met and talked to her

Mon Jan 9, 2012, 12:11 AM

Jan 2012

That article had a big impression on me when it came out and it's something I am still thinking about.

But you understand that the issue that she has with porn is not the issue second wavers have with porn. Her issue is (from the article):

"The reason to turn off the porn might become, to thoughtful people, not a moral one but, in a way, a physical- and emotional-health one; you might want to rethink your constant access to porn in the same way that, if you want to be an athlete, you rethink your smoking. The evidence is in: Greater supply of the stimulant equals diminished capacity."
--------------------------------

That is not a gender bias or equality issue. That is not a 'patriarchy is oppressing women through pornography' issue. In fact, that argument isnt even one that suggests you should not view porn at all. It's one that says you shouldnt view it as often.

I have gone back and forth on the points she raised. I cannot decide if it is perception or not. I think we all experience some angst regarding whether we are as attractive as we were once we pass 40 and perhaps it is easy to blame some external force on that.

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2nd and 3rd wave feminism [View all] seabeyond Dec 2011 OP

Yep, libodem Dec 2011 #1

i've always been a third wave feminist La Lioness Priyanka Dec 2011 #2

i would have to agree. seabeyond Dec 2011 #3

i think the problem is that when people say "the whole" they very rarely mean it La Lioness Priyanka Dec 2011 #4

when i say women as a whole, i am talking all women.... and girls. seabeyond Dec 2011 #5

i edited my response (not sure you read the whole thing) La Lioness Priyanka Dec 2011 #6

thru out history and the human race, people have been able to look beyond self seabeyond Dec 2011 #7

its not about altruism. its about not-knowing and being blind to that La Lioness Priyanka Dec 2011 #8

i don't agree with you. i think history would agree and disagree seabeyond Dec 2011 #9

A possibly illustrating anecdote iris27 Dec 2011 #11

i understand. where i disagree is an inability to understand. to get beyond. seabeyond Dec 2011 #12

I'm between you & seabeyond. CrispyQ Dec 2011 #34

thanks for this post. i agree with lack of empathy. or kindness. or nice. seabeyond Dec 2011 #35

A lot of people would be more compassionate if they could see things from a different perspective. CrispyQ Dec 2011 #36

I've never really identified with either 'wave'. I feel like the iris27 Dec 2011 #10

this is more my experience. nt seabeyond Dec 2011 #13

what would you have us do in the case of michelle duggar? La Lioness Priyanka Dec 2011 #14

I don't think it's our place to interfere, redqueen Dec 2011 #15

i agree with you, and that's why i can see why a feminist may say that while La Lioness Priyanka Dec 2011 #16

I admit I don't understand the differences very well. redqueen Dec 2011 #18

how i see it and how i see the difference is... seabeyond Dec 2011 #19

I don't think we should pretend that they are making feminist choices - that any choice made by iris27 Dec 2011 #20

ok. i see that. in your initial post it didnt read as though it was being celebrated as a choice La Lioness Priyanka Dec 2011 #21

Yeah, looking back, "perfectly fine" was not the best descriptor for the iris27 Dec 2011 #22

i would disagree that this is because she is a third waver La Lioness Priyanka Dec 2011 #23

I don't know, she's not the only such person I've encountered, just the most out-there. It'd be iris27 Dec 2011 #24

I think that woman is confused. I don't think most 3rd wavers would agree with her stevenleser Dec 2011 #26

Third Waver LadyHawkAZ Dec 2011 #17

Feminism was my first introduction to politics. I am more drawn to 3rd wave thinking stevenleser Dec 2011 #25

i would appreciate hearing how you see 3rd waves. and on edit seabeyond Dec 2011 #27

I'm not sure I follow. stevenleser Dec 2011 #28

i asked how you see 3rd wave, because i am interested in different perspectives seabeyond Dec 2011 #29

A couple of things stevenleser Dec 2011 #30

thanks. i appreciate the discussion. from your original post seabeyond Dec 2011 #31

Sorry about the delay. I talk about third wave vs second wave here stevenleser Jan 2012 #49

that was a very frustrating thread. supposedly with people that are open to discussion seabeyond Jan 2012 #54

I was very disappointed that fellow DUers rated her according to her looks stevenleser Jan 2012 #56

but you do not want it for your daughter cause you know the inherent problems and issues with that. seabeyond Jan 2012 #59

The reasoning is different and goes to the heart of what constitutes Empowerment and Bias stevenleser Jan 2012 #62

in the thread was the issue of men rating a woman. that as my issue. until men started addressing seabeyond Jan 2012 #64

so really, the sex positive female is merely the pro porn woman? no wonder the men are into the 3rd seabeyond Jan 2012 #65

Why else would Gail Dines define third-wave "feminism" as being "all about capitulation." laconicsax Jan 2012 #66

that is what it feels like. nt seabeyond Jan 2012 #67

So, in your words, if a woman likes sex she is "all about capitulation"? stevenleser Jan 2012 #69

Umm...no. laconicsax Jan 2012 #70

No need, I read the entire thread. I knew exactly what I was saying and why. stevenleser Jan 2012 #72

Well, you clearly weren't responding to what I wrote, so it makes me wonder. laconicsax Jan 2012 #74

that is silly at best and dishonest at worst. so do you wonder seabeyond Jan 2012 #71

It's not dishonest. That poster said what they said. stevenleser Jan 2012 #73

i dont know what wave i am in, but going by the names i am called, guessing 2nd. and you would be seabeyond Jan 2012 #75

Wow. That is what you got from that link? stevenleser Jan 2012 #68

here's me in my bombazine dress iverglas Jan 2012 #87

how to use sexuality to get what you want at work. seabeyond Jan 2012 #63

No. I dont think third wavers would be in favor of that at all. stevenleser Jan 2012 #76

i dont know the other two, but i have liked everything i have heard from naomi wolf seabeyond Jan 2012 #77

I read that article when it came out. I'm a big fan of hers and have met and talked to her stevenleser Jan 2012 #78

you are premising womens argument to fit your perception of them. i have heard it many times in seabeyond Jan 2012 #79

Civil/Gender rights issues are moral issues too. Perhaps I didnt make that clear stevenleser Jan 2012 #80

we are talking rights not sex. i have always and consistently supported civil and gender rights seabeyond Jan 2012 #81

You tried to suggest that I felt that 2nd wavers were addressing porn as a moral issue stevenleser Jan 2012 #82

all she is basically saying is the younger generation. seabeyond Jan 2012 #83

Me too. Here is the bottom line and what I think is the way for second and third wavers to work stevenleser Jan 2012 #90

As long as women are treated as things... redqueen Jan 2012 #93

Is trying to force that philosophical point on people who dont agree worth alienating people who stevenleser Jan 2012 #94

the options provied seems to be stfu. and i think women have had enough of being told to stfu. seabeyond Jan 2012 #95

But a large group of women disagree with that. Are you telling the women who disagree to STFU? stevenleser Jan 2012 #96

pfff, they are not being told they are frigid. lol. you said seabeyond Jan 2012 #98

"if you want support for... then shut up about..." redqueen Jan 2012 #100

It's not a philosophical point. redqueen Jan 2012 #99

how do you iverglas Jan 2012 #101

100% committed to the equal treatment of GLBT people, regardless of anything said to seabeyond Jan 2012 #102

pft, Naomi Wolf iverglas Jan 2012 #88

try not changing the subject iverglas Jan 2012 #84

When you address the inconsistencies in your approach, I'll enter into a lengthy dialogue stevenleser Jan 2012 #85

why are you here? iverglas Jan 2012 #86

Why to sell Amway products, of course. stevenleser Jan 2012 #89

I know, I look young (lol) I'm a rather proud dad so, here she is stevenleser Jan 2012 #50

Wow, she's great, Steve Remember Me Jan 2012 #52

Thank you! I raised her to be able to kick butt academically, intellectually and physically. stevenleser Jan 2012 #53

wow steven, that is all kinds of awesome. it is wonderful seeing a girl do.... seabeyond Jan 2012 #55

She is off to College next year. That video helped land her the soccer scholarship she received stevenleser Jan 2012 #58

ahhhhh, lol. hey, that was clever of you. my son is a junior. seabeyond Jan 2012 #61

Whew! I hope that wasn't all in one conversation! Remember Me Dec 2011 #43

Thank you. See my #50 above. :-) stevenleser Jan 2012 #51

This was such a good article libodem Dec 2011 #32

i had to speak out a couple weeks ago. seabeyond Dec 2011 #33

Just a way to categorize starspunch78 Dec 2011 #37

welcome to du. nt seabeyond Dec 2011 #38

Thanks! starspunch78 Dec 2011 #42

Welcome to DU and thanks for kicking this thread! PeaceNikki Dec 2011 #39

Hello! starspunch78 Dec 2011 #41

No, actually, it wasn't Remember Me Dec 2011 #44

thank you for this post. as i say. i dont feel like i fit or even understand either. seabeyond Dec 2011 #45

Another K&R PhoenixAbove Dec 2011 #40

Speaking as a 2nd Waver, I think 3rd Wave, as described Remember Me Dec 2011 #46

"The personal is the political" means? seabeyond Dec 2011 #47

Okay, I will. Remember Me Jan 2012 #48

y'know, I guess I would just ask the "third wavers": iverglas Jan 2012 #57

So how's that working out for you then? seabeyond Jan 2012 #60

I'm Gen X, I think, which is why I can relate to one thing with that third wave... Violet_Crumble Jan 2012 #91

i dont get you... seabeyond Jan 2012 #92

I think "ironic" might be the key here ;) iverglas Jan 2012 #97

kicking. looking thru google for a particular third waver, i cant remember her name. seabeyond Dec 2013 #103

No problem kicking it here, sea. Gormy Cuss Dec 2013 #104

thank you woman... seabeyond Dec 2013 #105