Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News Editorials & Other Articles General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search

eniwetok

(1,629 posts)
38. I know...
Mon Mar 28, 2016, 09:42 AM
Mar 2016

The new system was designed in a way that dealt with two main needs of the era... dealing with a complete failure of the Articles and states wanting to surrender the least amount of sovereignty possible. The new system met those needs of the time. But the lesson here is the Framers didn't shy from facing these problems. The Articles were to be a "perpetual union" that could not be amended without unanimous consent. It was a political straitjacket.

Article XIII. Every State shall abide by the determination of the united States in congress assembled, on all questions which by this confederation are submitted to them. And the Articles of this confederation shall be inviolably observed by every State, and the union shall be perpetual; nor shall any alteration at any time hereafter be made in any of them; unless such alteration be agreed to in a congress of the united States, and be afterwards confirmed by the legislatures of every State.
http://www.usconstitution.net/articles.html#Article13

The Article went into effect in 1781 and yet the Framers were conspiring to replace it as early as 1787. They realized it could not be reformed from within the system as they were directed to do... so they chose to overthrow it and create a stronger, more flexible system.

If we see problems with the their system... why should we shy from wanting to change it? For example Madison built class warfare into the Constitution... wanting the Senate to essentially be our House of Lords

MADISON: The man who is possessed of wealth, who lolls on his sofa, or rolls in his carriage, cannot judge of the wants or feelings of the day laborer. The government we mean to erect is intended to last for ages. The landed interest, at present, is prevalent; but in process of time, when we approximate to the states and kingdoms of Europe; when the number of landholders shall be comparatively small, through the various means of trade and manufactures, will not the landed interest be overbalanced in future elections, and unless wisely provided against, what will become of your government? In England, at this day, if elections were open to all classes of people, the property of the landed proprietors would be insecure. An agrarian law would soon take place. If these observations be just, our government ought to secure the permanent interests of the country against innovation. Landholders ought to have a share in the government, to support these invaluable interests, and to balance and check the other. They ought to be so constituted as to protect the minority of the opulent against the majority. The senate, therefore, ought to be this body; and to answer these purposes, they ought to have permanency and stability. Various have been the propositions; but my opinion is, the longer they continue in office, the better will these views be answered.

source: http://www.yale.edu/lawweb/avalon/const/yates.htm

Would we, today, create a system based on class warfare giving elites the power to thwart the People? Or would we find democratic ways to protect legitimate rights such as a constitutional protection to protect wealth?

Some will say that we have the amendment process. But the bar was deliberately created to be too high. Madison believed that this was necessary so people would venerate the Constitution. In Federalist 49 he wrote

In the next place, it may be considered as an objection inherent in the principle, that as every appeal to the people would carry an implication of some defect in the government, frequent appeals would, in a great measure, deprive the government of that veneration which time bestows on every thing, and without which perhaps the wisest and freest governments would not possess the requisite stability.

Because the amendment process is state based we're left with the absurdity that states with a mere 40% of the US population can pass any amendment, yet states with as little as 4% can block any amendment. Would we create an amendment system today that was state based and not population based? Would we, today, create a system where an EC could overturn the popular vote for president?

We need to have some clear democratic principles... and one should be that of civic equality: that all votes weigh the same in terms of representation. This is the standard we've imposed on the states. But we refuse to consider it on the federal level.



Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

They don't. L. Coyote Nov 2015 #1
You're right, elleng Nov 2015 #2
Exactly My Point Yallow Nov 2015 #3
They understand all right. Baobab May 2016 #42
Status quo. That is the only game either party plays. Why no change in hackable voting machines? LiberalArkie Nov 2015 #5
Exactly. You will NEVER see anything but a Republican House and Senate.. MrWendel Nov 2015 #4
I Didn't Even Mention Gerrymandering Yallow Nov 2015 #7
Don Siegelman Won His Elections - Was Jailed For Complaining About Being Screwed Yallow Nov 2015 #6
Democrats are not and have never "ignored" voter supression. Nitram Nov 2015 #8
New election laws are needed. And especially ones that with by pass the "States Rights" MrWendel Nov 2015 #9
Looking towards 2016 election, Wellstone ruled Nov 2015 #10
Way too late to fix 2016. jeff47 Nov 2015 #12
There are legal ways of preventing Wellstone ruled Nov 2015 #14
Hillaryt Clinton has advocated some really good voting rights proposal Gothmog Nov 2015 #11
Make Fighting Voter Suppression Priority #1 Instead Of Priority #51 Yallow Nov 2015 #16
just what are voting rights for all? eniwetok Mar 2016 #35
The senate was designed that way... Agschmid Mar 2016 #37
I know... eniwetok Mar 2016 #38
Because then we'd win. And once we win, those pesky voters expect results. jeff47 Nov 2015 #13
/\_/\_This right here_/\_/\ Scuba Nov 2015 #19
That is very well put, isn't it. Ghost Dog Mar 2016 #29
The Left doesn't control the media. toddwv Nov 2015 #15
If The Left Shut Down The Government To Bring Voting Rights To Folks Yallow Nov 2015 #17
Sure, we'd hear about it. toddwv Nov 2015 #18
How Democrats Suppress The Vote Stellar Nov 2015 #20
if Dems wanted to increase the voter turnout... eniwetok Mar 2016 #33
We could have started by not gutting the VRA... But we missed the boat on that one. Agschmid Mar 2016 #34
the VRA never guaranteed civic equality in the vote eniwetok Mar 2016 #39
The VRA would have absolutely stopped what happened in AZ from happening. Agschmid Mar 2016 #40
I know a progressive group focused on voting rights Alison Hartson Nov 2015 #21
Looking for groups that support Voter Registration in Red States SleeplessinSeattle55 Feb 2017 #44
Both parties gerrymander, but Republicans suppress votes. SaveTheMackerel Feb 2016 #22
Dems vs GOPers eniwetok Mar 2016 #31
Well... V 4 C C i IN E Mar 2016 #23
super delegates eniwetok Mar 2016 #30
Agree Rparker123 Mar 2016 #24
not that arbitary eniwetok Mar 2016 #28
It may be arbitrary but its the same rule for all Travis_0004 Mar 2016 #32
the bigger question is why do Dems ignore civic inequality in the vote? eniwetok Mar 2016 #25
Thank you. SusanCalvin Mar 2016 #26
Those who don't vote and let the repubs take over states are partly to blame. upaloopa Mar 2016 #27
I've been asking this question a loooooooong time! Kip Humphrey Mar 2016 #36
Retail caging PATRICK Apr 2016 #41
two things clarkkentvotes Sep 2016 #43
TAXPAYER_VOTERID Asa Gordon Feb 2017 #45
Latest Discussions»Issue Forums»Election Reform»Why Do Democrats Ignore M...»Reply #38