I'm on the Home Page, and I wanna Search DU for something.

[TygrBright]

Where is the Search bar?

confusedly,
Bright

[usonian]

1. Try NAVIGATE (button) then Help and Search nt

[TygrBright]

2. Thank you! I would never have found that.

What a lotta extra clicking this version demands, to do the stuff I like to do most often. Hopefully I'm really weird and for most people it's LESS clicking!

appreciatively,
Bright

[usonian]

3. Secret of sysadmin and IT gurus:

Punch every button and every menu item until something works.

Just not the ones that look dangerous!

DON'T TELL ANYONE.

But seriously, reading the manual pages, if they exist, or the countless forums, could take much longer.

Glad I could help.

[TygrBright]

4. Oh, yes, I recommend that to database users alla time myself. BUT...

When I'm designing an interface I try to put the stuff people do/use most within a single click.

Would be really nice if they'd use that useless "Feed Sidebar" real estate as a user-configurable links area, so that (for instance) I could put the search bar there, and the "My Posts" page link, and links to the forums I use most like "Editorials and Other Articles" and "Videos and Multimedia"... and maybe one or two of the ones I subscribe to. Not a "feed" which I always find deeply annoying and distracting, just links, which give me the control to find what I want with a single click.

wistfully,
Bright

[usonian]

5. Sorry I didn't post the thread in the new DU4 forums.

I just didn't know to do so at the time.

Try posting there for admin visibility. It could help.

Good luck. Most used/useful items up front, or configurable.

I used to do in-house projects for an aerospace company in HyperCard. 10X or more productivity gains, and on technical stuff. Rapid prototyping par excellence. Miss that.

Main thing we lost with "the web" was the ability of the user to configure things to meet their needs. All got "standardized" on the back end.

Users were disempowered by the complexity of apps, but rushing stuff out the door meant no time for making things user-friendly. A lost art.

[EarlG]

6. Hello

You can disable all of the Feed notifications from the left column if you don't want to see any of them. Go to the Feed page here:

https://du4.democraticunderground.com/?com=feed

Uncheck every item in the left column and then hit the Save button.

Would be really nice if they'd use that useless "Feed Sidebar" real estate as a user-configurable links area, so that (for instance) I could put the search bar there, and the "My Posts" page link, and links to the forums I use most like "Editorials and Other Articles" and "Videos and Multimedia"... and maybe one or two of the ones I subscribe to.

You can't put a search bar or a My Posts link there, but I believe I already explained that any forum you subscribe to will be listed in the left column beneath the line "Susbcribed Forums" and that provides you with a direct one-click link to visit those forums.

While the Editorials & Other Articles and Videos & Multimedia are not currently listed while I consider their retirement, there is a workaround to resolve your very specific problem -- the forums can still be visited here:

https://du4.democraticunderground.com/?com=forum&id=1016

And here:

https://du4.democraticunderground.com/?com=forum&id=1017

If you subscribe to those forums they will appear in your left column navigation.

[TygrBright]

9. Thank you - good reminder.

I don't subscribe to those forums because I just check them regularly anyway, it's so easy with them right there on the home page. So now I will subscribe to them!

Done!

Now, how do I add links to them in that sidebar? I don't see a way to add a link to a particular forum I've subscribed to, there. Only "Subscriptions (Forums)
Notify when someone starts a new discussion in a forum you are subscribed to"

Which, as previously noted, is NOT what I want as it brings links/quotes from new posts into that space which is problematic for me (I find them visually distracting in the way a single link that would be there all the time and just change color or whatever to 'notify' me would not be.)

I think I just need to concentrate on getting used to using the "My Stuff" button to look at the "My Subscriptions" feed PAGE only when that's what I want to do to check something, and sort through and click only on the ones I want. And just forget about being notified about specific forums having a generic new post there, without having to see snippets from them or whatever. "Feeds" (even the ones that don't move) are terribly distracting and visually disorienting on a page where I'm trying to focus on other things, so I avoid them except when I want to scan, or search for something in, a particular feed.

And that's just me, so THAT'S OKAY. I've learned over time how to manage my problems with visual distractions and Adult ADD/ADHD, and it just means learning to accommodate, and occasional extra effort. I can do it again here.

Thank you. Now that I have those two added to "Subscriptions" it's much easier to access them in DU4, so I am grateful!

Appreciatively,
Bright

[EarlG]

7. There are two extremely obvious ways to get around DU4

The NAVIGATE button and the MY STUFF button. If you click the NAVIGATE button the menu pops open and the link to HELP & SEARCH is right there.

It's two clicks to get to the Search page (Click Navigate, click Help & Search) compared to the Google site search bar that exists on DU3 (no clicks) or the Advanced Search function on DU3 (one click).

However, that is offset by the fact that on DU4 the Navigate button is on screen at all times. On DU3, if you're not at the top of the page already, you have to scroll all the way back to the top of the page to get to the search bar or the link to Advanced Search.

I should also point out that on the mobile version of DU3 there is no search function at all. That has been improved upon in the DU4 mobile version, which allows you to search from the Help & Search page. I made some concessions in the DU4 desktop design in order to improve things for mobile users.

[TygrBright]

8. I'm glad mobile users are getting full functionality!

I will click, scroll, click rather than just click to get to search.

If the redesign makes it a) Easier to administrate - which is a MONUMENTAL task that y'all do extremely well already, but I know it has to be exhausting sometimes! - and/or b) More functional for more users on more devices:

YAY, YOU!! Keep it up, and sorry for all the kvetching. Don't take it personal.

DU4 is an amazing accomplishment and I'm sure I will come to love it as much as the current iteration and maybe more. (Especially dark mode, woo-HOO!)

appreciatively,
Bright

[EarlG]

10. Do you have to click, scroll, click?

The Help & Search button should be right there after you click Navigate, without requiring any additional scrolling. It should just be click, click no matter where you are on the site.

Oh wait, perhaps you mean click, click, scroll... you do have to scroll down a bit on the Help & Search page to get to the search bar.

...

I kinda feel like I want to explain something about this beta test. Some folks are treating it as if everything that's they're seeing on screen right now, on the third day of the beta test, is the way it's going to be permanently, forever. But part of the purpose of testing is for me to figure out what works and what doesn't work for people.

I cannot possibly account for how every single DU member uses DU, and how DU is going to appear on their devices -- it's taken three-plus years to get to this point because I've done my best to try.

So far I'm getting the impression that most people who are using DU4 are finding it to be an upgrade. But I was well aware going into this test that some would have specific issues with it. What I'm trying to do now is see if there are ways to resolve those issues -- and if there aren't, at least do my best to explain that there may be alternatives to the "workflow" you're used to, that you just haven't found yet because some of this is new.

I noticed upthread that usonian was lamenting the current trend of sites becoming user-unfriendly because of developers "rushing stuff out the door" -- I really hope that people don't think that's what's going on with DU4. This redesign has been a labor of love for me over the last three years and I want everyone to be happy with it. If there are things I can do to resolve your specific issues, I will do my best.

[TygrBright]

11. Yes, I meant click, click, scroll, thanks.

And yes, I definitely GET what "Beta Test" means which is why I'm taking the time to provide feedback and details. In the hope that they are useful to you and Elad, as how ONE user (just me!) experiences using the beta version.

I totally do NOT expect you guys to customize the final version of DU4 to meet my every habit, whim, preference, etc. It's remarkable how many improvements you've made already. I'm trying to take the time to try things out and provide feedback and I'll be more conscientious about positive as well as "hey, wait, why...?" stuff, promise.

I am taking time to "beta test" because this is the beta version. And I'm impressed with how much you're paying attention to what I and other "beta testers" are providing in the way of feedback. We all (well, most of us, I'm sure. I think. I hope.) DO understand about the whole beta testing thing, and know that the final version may well differ from what we're experiencing now, today. Rock ON with that, Dudes.

I don't think usonian had DU4 in mind when referrring to "rushing out" an update, just a general kvetch about software, excuse me "apps" today. But they can speak for themselves.

As far as I can tell, you're doing everything right. The beta is functional as allgetout, you've given a substantial group of your most interested users broad access to it, you've provided a feedback forum, and you're paying attention to what you're getting. I'm assuming you're also monitoring back end metrics on how beta users are interacting with the version, and tracking trends you might want to tweak in the final version. You've allowed a generous amount of time for that process.

Do you guys know how RARE this is, these days?

DU is, and has always been, a quality site, not just for content, but for functionality, administration, and usability. It gets upgraded regularly, illustrated by the fact that we're on DU FOUR. The number of sites that either a) dick around forEVER on upgrading usability (I subscribe to one site that's still in beta after being up and having (paid!) subscriptions online for THREE YEARS); or b) constantly tweak for each new shiny thing and often break the site or lose cherished functionality in consequence; is colossal. Maybe even a majority.

Sleep well tonight. You guys are aces.

encouragingly,
Bright

[EarlG]

12. Thanks, I appreciate it :)

I apologize for being a bit snippy. Getting ready to show this off publicly has been a bit of an ordeal. And I genuinely do want to try to make sure everyone is happy -- or at least as close as I can get -- with DU4. After all this time, the community is what this site is really all about, and that's what's most important to me.

[highplainsdem]

13. What you wrote here confused me

However, that is offset by the fact that on DU4 the Navigate button is on screen at all times.

since it wasn't on screen for me, and I was wondering if it was another oddity of this tablet...and then I realized I was using Skinner Mode. I've been switching modes so often, along with switching between DU3 and 4, that I sometimes forget which one I'm using.

I should also point out that on the mobile version of DU3 there is no search function at all. That has been improved upon in the DU4 mobile version, which allows you to search from the Help & Search page.

I hadn't even realized that since I hadn't used the mobile version of DU3, had that account setting on DU3 on Standard.

I made some concessions in the DU4 desktop design in order to improve things for mobile users.

Kudos for doing that, and I apologize for having done so much griping. I need to remember there are a lot of DUers who access DU only (or most of the time) by phone. So they need those large Navigate and My Stuff buttons on screen.

I guess I just got too spoiled being able to see so much of the DU3 board using Standard mode on a tablet held vertically. It was nice to be able to skim down 30+ thread titles on a board page without having to scroll at all, so I was doing minimal scrolling there.

[EarlG]

14. I kinda had a priority order for this

The thing about this redesign is it’s actually 12 different designs. There are different layouts for desktop, laptop, tablet, and phone. Then there are the Default Mode, Night Mode, and Skinner Mode versions of each page. So for every page on DU4 there are 12 layouts.

There is some crossover between mobile devices and vertically-held tablets. Given the number of designs I had to create, I opted to keep it simple and display the mobile version of the site on vertical tablets. However this obviously doesn’t account for people like yourself who are used to seeing a desktop view on a vertical tablet.

But here’s the thing, now that the test is up and running and we’re seeing that it seems to be working well in most areas, now I can focus on the things that were a lower priority when it came to getting ready for the testing phase. That means I can take another look at the vertical tablet view and use your feedback to see how it can be improved.

So it might take a while longer but we’ll get there eventually.