I support Sanders pushing against Biden regarding Social Security

[Tom Rinaldo]

Joe handled it just fine. It will not hurt Biden in the General Election. Neither will it help Bernie in the primaries, but I think he knows that. Biden had an excellent debate last night. I think Sanders did well too, though this debate did not help him in the primaries, and I think he knows that also.

Last night's debate, as I predicted, offered Biden the exact opportunity that he needed to execute and bury all whisper campaigns against him regarding his mental agility, whether from the left, or more importantly, from Trump's forces on the right. In the bright glow of a national spotlight Biden performed like a world class political athlete. The timing could not have been better, and the opportunity for Biden to so shine could not have been more helpful.

The challenges Bernie threw at Joe were not mere jabs, they were punches, but they weren't aimed below the belt. World champion boxers do not train against amateur sparring partners in preparation for the big event.And sparring partners do not pull their punches, that would ultimately be self defeating. Biden faced a flurry of incoming blow, and he parried them well, deflecting most. And while an occasional blow landed Biden never lost his footing. All of this is excellent. Biden emerges stronger because of it.

I agree with the pundits. The public won't care if it can be shown that some time or two during the last twenty years Joe Biden did not slam and bolt the door to any consideration of reigning in cost of living increases to Social Security benefits. Even if true, Biden still solidly owns the left side of the spectrum against Trump in all matters related to our social safety net.

But I will never forget, nor fail to adequately appreciate, the role that Bernie Sanders helped play in national politics, fighting to stem and reverse the tidal wave or so called "responsible voices", that had been building for over a decade, that argued for the necessity of "reigning in entitlement spending." Call it the Bloomberg wing of the Democratic Party if you will, but their pulsing drumbeat became the inescapable driver of all budgetary debates in America.

At a time when most liberal Democrats struggled to just rebuff arguments for cutting Social Security, Bernie Sanders was among a small handful actually calling for an expansion of Social Security benefits. In a age of disappearing pensions, of high paying manufacturing jobs being replaced by low paying service industry jobs, of workers in their 50's being ushered to the exits allowing companies to shed their seniority related costs, Sanders understood that Social Security is an indispensable lifeline for tens of millions of Americans, the need for which is growing, not shrinking.

It is about shaping the national dialog. It is about drawing a line sharper than a barbed wire fence. No, America can not continue to find justifications for tax cuts for the wealthy, of bail outs for our largest corporations and banks, of blank checks for the any and all of our military adventures, while pleading poverty and pushing belt tightening measures onto our most vulnerable. I deeply honor and respect what the Obama/Biden Administration did for America, but that doesn't mean I have forgotten the "Grand Bargain" with John Boehner for a deficit cutting budget deal that sat waiting on the table during Obama's first term. Among other things it would have lowered cost of living increases on Social Security benefits, and it would have become the law of the land had Boehner not blinked and walked away.

The forces that seek to "curb entitlements" never give in, and they never go away. They stand ready to resume their campaigns for "entitlement reforms" at any and all opportunities. The counter narrative that Bernie Sanders and others like him have forcefully provided only make the task easier, for a good man like Joe Biden, to resist those efforts moving forward.

[frazzled]

1. Only there was really no need to push

Biden was never going to curb entitlements. The whole thing was an election ploy to gin up some votes. Given that Biden has won the vast majority of votes from people 45 and over, the voters have not been vpconcerned in the least over this issue.

[duforsure]

2. They both should be vocal now for senior citizens

Demanding a $200-$500 a month boost until this has passed, and they need to promote it now, and before trump tries to bribe them to vote for him, but the seniors are being ignored with being helped financially from this crisis.

[ucrdem]

3. The problem is that Bernie carped about everything.

And anything. Drones, TARP, NAFTA, ACA, stimulus, budgets, NSA reform, Detroit bailout, yadda yadda, if it came from a Democratic admin whether Clinton's or Obama's, he was all over it every time he opened his mouth. So the net effect was that his pushback on any particular issue became negligible background noise. And SS reform was only ever a negotiating ploy and we knew that.

[empedocles]

4. . . . and, given his long record, continue to carp about everything, and help trump,

. . . endlessly.

[Tom Rinaldo]

5. I strongly disagree on the latter

I believe that changing the COLA formula was part of the proposed "Grand Bargain" and would have occurred had Republicans not gotten cold feet.. The forces for "entitlements reform" were generally ascendant then and included a lot of Democrats in good standing. Those backing the changed COLA equation were strenuously arguing that it was in fact not a cut, since benefits would continue to rise under it (but at a slower pace).

The so called budget hawks on the right now are cowed into silence because a popular (with their base) Republican President is exploding the deficit, but they will return with a vengeance once Trump is out of office, and they will be supported by plenty of "sober Democrats".

[ucrdem]

9. It didn't happen because Obama called their bluff.

No, they didn't want to lose their seats, and that was that. So most of us look at the outcome and don't get hung up on the stratagem. Bernie looks at his TV and demagogues on a false issue. That's my beef with Bernie.

[Demsrule86]

18. Well it never happened now did it?. Bargaining is art form that Sanders doesn't understand.

[Tom Rinaldo]

21. That's like saying Trump didn't almost get us into a war with Iran

because no U.S. soldiers were killed during Iran's retaliatory missile attack and thus an escalating spiral was averted. "See, there never was any danger.."

I will repost this Washington Post reporting which you failed to respond to below:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/obamas-evolution-behind-the-failed-grand-bargain-on-the-debt/2012/03/15/gIQAHyyfJS_story.html


"That night, Obama prepared his party’s congressional leaders. He warned Senate Majority Leader Harry M. Reid (D-Nev.) and House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) that he might return to the position under discussion the previous Sunday — that is, cuts to Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid in exchange for just $800 billion in tax increases.

The Democratic leaders “kind of gulped” when they heard the details, Daley recalled...

...Dan Pfeiffer, the White House communications director, recalled that the president and his team felt the weight of the global economy “on our shoulders.”

“Is there political benefit to coming to a big budget deal with John Boehner? Sure,” Pfeiffer said. “But every other political and message imperative was thrown out the door to prevent a disaster and do the right thing for the country. That’s why we were willing to do things we wouldn’t normally do.”

Reluctantly, Reid and Pelosi agreed to do their best to support the plan...

...Two day later, July 24, one week after the Sunday morning meeting that sparked such optimism, the president found himself trying to turn back the clock.

Working late into the evening, Obama asked someone to get Boehner on the phone. His message: I’ll take your last offer.

“Mr. President,” Boehner answered, “we don’t have time to reopen these negotiations.”

[Demsrule86]

26. Apples and oranges...have you ever negotiated anything? I have. You put stuff out there that you

have no intention of doing into the mix; it is how works.

[treestar]

10. Bernie doesn't know much about negotiating

it appears.

[ucrdem]

11. But he knows what people like to hear.

And he's very good at saying it, I'll give him that. Doesn't have much to do with facts on the ground though. Or anywhere else at this point.

[TwilightZone]

6. You mean his misleading and false statements about Biden and SS?

https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2020/mar/12/bernie-sanders/sanders-misleading-social-security-attack-biden/

https://www.factcheck.org/2020/01/biden-vs-sanders-on-social-security-and-medicare/

https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2020/jan/09/bernie-sanders/did-biden-laud-paul-ryan-proposal-cut-social-secur/

[Gothmog]

23. sanders claims about social security and Biden are all false

Facts matter

[George II]

7. Once again Sanders misrepresented what Biden said years ago. And he refused to own up to....

....the fact that HE said the same thing as Biden.

Sanders' people on twitter are still retweeting that misleading ~30 second video of Biden, a snippet of a 2-3 minute speech on the floor of the Senate.

[Bluepinky]

8. Thank you for this post.

Sanders has had an immeasurable effect on shaping the current Democratic Party platform. He and Elizabeth Warren have been instrumental in helping to steer our party toward the left, to remind our politicians that the Democratic Party is a party for the people. I appreciate his focus on the minimum wage, on healthcare for all, on the affordability of higher education, etc. I hope he’s able to stay involved for a long time, we need his voice.

[Demsrule86]

14. Please that has been a Democratic thing for years...

[Bluepinky]

19. Democratic Party has veered toward the center over the last few decades,

primarily due to their acceptance of corporate and big money in campaigns. Bernie also showing how it should be done in his refusal to accept corporate donations. He represents people, not corporations. Wish all the Democrats would follow Bernie’s lead.

[NCProgressive]

16. lol

[Gothmog]

24. Really?

I have never taken sanders seriously or considered sanders to be a serious candidate due to his complete lack of legislative accomplishments. sanders has no significant legislative accomplishments in the real world and is relying on a magical voter revolution to get his agenda adopted. Good luck with that

I really like this ad from Biden

Link to tweet

[Faux pas]

12. Kickin'

[Demsrule86]

13. I noticed one of the moderators called Sanders on his SS remarks in the 90's too...kind of ruined it

for Sanders...and anyone who understands compromise which clearly Sanders does not knows you put stuff on the table that you have no intention of voting for in order to work towards a deal...chained CPI is an example...the fact that Sanders didn't understand Joe's point shows why Sanders was largely ineffective in Congress.

[Tom Rinaldo]

15. That the Chained CPI was merely a "bargaining ploy" is merely your opinion

I believe that view is now convenient historic revisionism:

"Obama’s evolution: Behind the failed ‘grand bargain’ on the debt"
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/obamas-evolution-behind-the-failed-grand-bargain-on-the-debt/2012/03/15/gIQAHyyfJS_story.html

"That night, Obama prepared his party’s congressional leaders. He warned Senate Majority Leader Harry M. Reid (D-Nev.) and House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) that he might return to the position under discussion the previous Sunday — that is, cuts to Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid in exchange for just $800 billion in tax increases.

Would they support him?

The Democratic leaders “kind of gulped” when they heard the details, Daley recalled.

By this time, Obama had become the face of the bitter debt-ceiling talks and his poll numbers were dropping. His allies on Capitol Hill cringed at his predicament but also at what he was asking them to do.

Dan Pfeiffer, the White House communications director, recalled that the president and his team felt the weight of the global economy “on our shoulders.”

“Is there political benefit to coming to a big budget deal with John Boehner? Sure,” Pfeiffer said. “But every other political and message imperative was thrown out the door to prevent a disaster and do the right thing for the country. That’s why we were willing to do things we wouldn’t normally do.”

Reluctantly, Reid and Pelosi agreed to do their best to support the plan."

[Demsrule86]

17. I guess Sanders and some Sanders supporters don't understand negotiation tactics

which is what this was.

[Tom Rinaldo]

20. You did not address the post you responded to, which includes inside reporting n/t

[Gothmog]

28. Sanders' Social Security 'adjustments' undercut Biden attack

Link to tweet

As a congressman in the 1990s, Bernie Sanders expressed an openness to making “adjustments” to the tax and benefit structure of Social Security. He also praised an overhaul of the social safety net program signed into law by President Ronald Reagan that reduced benefits and increased taxes on working families.

Sanders’ presidential campaign and allies have highlighted similar remarks by Joe Biden to attack the former vice president and make the explosive charge that Biden was an outspoken proponent of slashing the program.

With Iowa’s first-in-the-nation presidential caucuses less than a week away, Sanders’ remarks from decades ago are surfacing as a counterpunch to the criticism of Biden, as the two top candidates in the Democratic race escalate a feud over the nation’s most popular entitlement, an issue that has particular reach among older voters.

Sanders, a democratic socialist, is a favorite of progressives who admire him for his convictions and consistency on issues. But when it comes to Social Security, it appears that wasn’t always the case.

In 1994, after Republicans took control of the House for the first time since the Eisenhower era, they brought a renewed focus on fiscal restraint and deficit reduction.

Biden and Sanders both bowed to those pressures in some respect.

[Gothmog]

22. Then we need to discuss sanders wanting to cut Sociral Security

This is not a good issue for sanders when sanders is guilty of the exact same conduct in the real world

Link to tweet

Link to tweet

Link to tweet

[Tom Rinaldo]

25. We need to discuss anyone being willing to cut Social Security, any time.

I heard Sanders explain that the adjustments he had called for were to expand Social Security, one can believe that or not. Bottom line for me is that public pressure has to continue to build to protect AND expand Social Security. Biden will not be hurt in the fall by any of the exchange last night about Social Security, and we the people benefit from all efforts to lock in all of our potential candidates for any federal office with forward looking pledges to that effect.

My comments here no longer reflect any jockeying for a leg up in the primaries. Posts regarding our candidates can't be posted in General Discussion. I accept that Biden will be our nominee and I have no problem with supporting him.

[Gothmog]

27. #Florida Poll, Whom voters trust on Social security

Link to tweet