Like it or not Biden has to win over Sander's supporters

[Legends303]

the coalition that propelled Barack Obama to the white house was with a large base of young voters. I don't see Biden winning without them. He needs to adapt some of Sander's policy. Biden has done terribly with young voters so far, so hopefully when Biden is the nominee, he will try to appeal to them.

[Poeraria]

1. No. Young voters do not turn out, or bernie would have a lead.

The country is yearning for a grown-up. None of the Obama coalition was petulant children.

[mrs_p]

6. He still needs to build a coalition

Including younger voters. He can’t just ignore them and their needs. That’s not what a leader does. That’s what a trump does.

[HarlanPepper]

7. It's been built.

OR have you missed the last two Tuesdays?

[mrs_p]

22. Snarky, nice

That’s a serious turn off for this new Biden supporter. That will dampen enthusiasm for the candidate.

There are a lot of young people who need to be engaged. We should be thinking long term and try to bring them in.

[HarlanPepper]

24. Like I said, it's been built.

Your acceptance of that fact is not required.

[mrs_p]

28. Ok

Lose dems.

He will not be elected if you do so.

[zackymilly]

47. "Lose dems"? If you don't vote for the nominee, were you really a Democrat in the first place?

Every election, some losing group wants to hold the winners hostage.
You're either a Democrat, or you're not.
You either vote for the Democrat candidate, or you risk getting another 4 years of trump.
What do you want? Jeesh!

[KPN]

62. Whacking oneself in the forehead won't fix it.

[zackymilly]

64. Neither will threats of not voting. n/t

[KPN]

83. "Threats"? Not sure there's any real hostage taking going on.

It really is up to the candidate, the campaign and the party to create, encourage, inspire, whatever one wants to call it, voter turnout. Blaming voters for their choices doesn’t solve a thing. Browbeating then and their desire to be won over by policy and positions surely won’t generate their support.

[zackymilly]

90. "Elections have consequences." ---President Obama

Well, it looks like Bernie won't be the nominee because he and his campaign didn't create, encourage, inspire, or whatever one wants to call it, to come out and vote. As far hostages go, I see several posts here that pretty much say they are holding their vote hostage until Joe Biden or one of his supporters pay the ransom they desire for it to be released to Joe.

[KPN]

163. Who said anything about Sanders being the nominee? Totally unrelated. Guess I haven't seen anyone

actually say that here. Not saying they didn't but I haven't seen it. I think most, if not all DUers understand the dire need to actually win the WH -- which of course will require the support of all Democrats whoever the nominee is -- and we all know it will be Joe Biden. People who voted in our primary who aren't part of the DU community, I can't speak to as I have no real insight. But I don't know that they are even "threatening" to withhold votes unless ... My view is it just makes good sense to build bridges to those people rather than badmouth and beat up on them for supporting Sanders. They have the same right that you and I do to prefer, support and vote whoever they feel best about whether that's because of policy, "electability", or any other trait. But it makes no sense whatsoever to me for the winning side to chide and flaunt them as losers who do not need to be respected. That's exactly what I see in some if ot many of the comments being posted by the "winners" the past few days. There's no gain in that, but there is potential loss.

[BComplex]

180. Don't

feed the bullies.

[zackymilly]

194. Welcome to DU.

[Cary]

183. If removing Republicans isn't inspiration

Then nothing is.

VOTE DEMOCRATIC!

it is that simple.

[mrs_p]

71. I've been working for this

Party since I was 14. I’ll of course vote.

I know many who won’t.

[zackymilly]

72. Well give them a call and explain to them what's at stake. n/t

[mrs_p]

74. It should also come from the

Candidate and his supporters. Why completely alienate a large group of voters?

[samnsara]

140. i keep saying this but if someone does not understand the danger of not..

...voting for the dem nom...IN THIS ELECTION.. even if its a damn loaf of bread..then maybe they arent emotionally mature enough to vote yet.

[Codeine]

149. Goddamned right.

“Aren’t emotionally mature enough to vote yet” just perfectly describes the situation.

[Hekate]

152. "The candidate and his supporters" have been crystal clear from Day One about what is at stake.

Every day, every speech, every post. Since you are close to the disaffected, perhaps you can explain it to them in words they can undertand. Please. Because God knows we've sure been trying.

[dawg day]

160. What is it you'd like to hear?

I mean that sincerely. If Biden were to say what you think would work, what would it be?

[mrs_p]

162. Great question. Thank you for asking.

I would love Biden (and I believe he will) to talk up his educational programs more. Emphasize free CC and how we will pay for it (like Warren). Talk about the importance of public service and how existing loans WILL be forgiven (as was promised). Face his past vote against student debt being excluding in bankruptcy.

Talk up his climate policies more. The need to do something from day one. This is an even more existential threat than the current pandemic (though as a virologist it pains me to say that - and I believe pandemics and climate change are linked).

Now that the field has narrowed, just start taking about the things that affect the short and long term future of young people.

Engage young folks and don’t ignore them or have animosity towards their concerns. Or blame them for falling for Bernie or their idealism.

When I went to vote yesterday, there were lots of young people. They were even volunteering. This is a very red state and Bernie won. He has a message that resonates. Let’s not poo-poo them off.

[eilen]

117. Exactly. nt

[Terry_M]

178. Taking Any Votes For Granted

Costs you Pennsylvania, Michigan and Wisconsin.
I am completely failing to comprehend how you can say what you're saying here given 2016.
People, including Hillary who decided not to visit some of these 3 states at all in the general election took this stance then.
Then we got Trump.

I am not saying people are right to sit this out or whatever the hell they did in 2016 but I only feel that Wisconsin has gotten more rabidly red, not less in the last 4 years, so like I don't get what you're saying here. We need to shame people into Wisconsin some more, remind them that they were wrong to not be taken for granted last election and we'll be fine this time?

[mcar]

106. This threat again?

Be nice to us or we won't vote Democratic? Seriously? After 2016, Bernie supporters (some, not all) are pulling this crap again?

[mrs_p]

115. This is a lot of young folks

First time engaged in this process. Biden should bring them into the fold by addressing their issues. I hope he makes more of a point of it in his upcoming speeches and debates. Or we will lose folks who are more dem minded than not.

BTW I never said I wouldn’t vote for the nominee. I voted Biden yesterday. But honestly I wouldn’t have if I had been in this thread before I went to the polls. I can’t stand Sanders so wouldn’t have voted for him either.

[Codeine]

125. No, they should grow up

and learn to vote like everyone else did. Nobody needs to give them special kisses on the forehead.

[GemDigger]

130. This thread would have changed your vote?

Are you freaking kidding me? Your vote based on a thread? OMG!

[mrs_p]

134. Yes

My candidate was out and I had to chose b/w my fifth and sixth choices. I chose Biden but could have gone the other way.

The pure animosity towards young people’s hope in a candidate and their valid concerns is a turn off. I haven’t been in many Biden threads. I expected more interest in bringing people in rather than turning people out.

I’ve been turned out.

[Codeine]

148. There is no animosity.

There is a reaction to petulance and threats. A reaction to an overwhelming sense of entitlement. A reaction to the politics of hostage-taking.

And letting internet randos influence your vote seems rather absurd, btw b

[mcar]

136. You just proved my point. Thanks

Be nice to us or we won't vote Democratic?

You said: I voted Biden yesterday. But honestly I wouldn’t have if I had been in this thread before I went to the polls.

You are seriously saying that being challenged on a discussion board would have caused you to not vote? You are that OK with Trump being re-elected? Your ego is more important than this country? Than babies in cages?

[mrs_p]

137. I would have voted and I will vote

For the Democrat like I always have.

This is a primary. I would have chosen the other candidate I our PRIMARY.

[mcar]

139. But you said you'd never vote for Bernie

[mrs_p]

145. Please.

I would have had to have picked him or one of the others that have dropped out.

This is getting ridiculous. I am a dem and have always been a dem. I have worked for many dem candidates. However, if the people on this thread are indicative of typical Biden supporters (which I very much doubt), I would not be welcomed into the camp. My ideas just don’t seem to match up.

I’m done with this sub thread. Peace to you.

[Codeine]

124. They're going to hold their breath until they turn blue. nt

[sop]

181. Trump's followers are called the "deplorables," Bernie's should be known as the "implacables"

[treestar]

198. Good one

A number of them are

[Poeraria]

196. Bernouts are not Democrats!!!!

They are explicit in this fact! They are not trying to build the Democratic party, they are trying to use it to their selfish ends, even if it means injuring the party. If they voted like Democrats, Pres. Hillary Clinton would be handling a public health crisis right now.

[treestar]

199. Sad to think

How much less of a crisis it would be under President Hillary Clinton.

[Poeraria]

12. Bernouts will never turn our for Biden. Court rational young people.

far more reliable.

[mrs_p]

23. There are many people in his

Camp that can be moved. We are not talking trumpers here.

[zackymilly]

51. Where were all these Bernie people when the polls opened? Why weren't they moved by Bernie?

You don't get a do-over.
President Obama once said, "Elections have consequences."

[mrs_p]

54. They were here in this red state

Huge turn out and Bernie won.

I didn’t vote for him and I am done with Sanders, but we can’t throw all his voters aside as if they don’t count or we don’t need them. And I doubt Biden would think that.

But that’s what I am reading here.

[pandr32]

53. Doesn't the fact that DT is POTUS move them?

[mrs_p]

57. Not if there is no message of hope

Why wouldn’t we want them?

[zackymilly]

59. So there's hope with trump? Betting on hope with trump is a sucker's bet. n/t

[mrs_p]

66. A lot of people don't

Want someone to vote against.

They want someone to vote for.

[zackymilly]

67. Sometimes you can't always get what you want, and you have to settle. n/t

[pandr32]

111. This is not a normal election

Democrats just impeached DT because of the fact he is completely corrupt and abusing his position.
The Republicans, through fear or idiocy are onboard with DT.
We are in crisis.
You can either vote for Joe Biden or you can join those who no longer care (Republicans included).

[Codeine]

126. Who cares what they "want"?

Delicate-ass whiners need to stop.

[zackymilly]

138. Thanks. I wanted to say the same thing, but..n/t

[Codeine]

144. It helps that I'm a complete asshole.

[zackymilly]

147. Everyone needs an asshole to get the stink out.

[jimfields33]

153. 18 percent voted

Sure would be nice to have them in November. Not sure why you could care less. But the 3 states could make a difference.

[Vivienne235729]

170. That is true only in the sense that they want someone they know can beat trump.

That is a big singular motivating factor in this election so far.

[Codeine]

97. Message of hope? Jeezus.

What kind of childish-ass nonsense is that? People have a fucking responsibility to do the right thing. If a young voter needs “hope” or “inspiration” to vote against Trump then they’re a fucking dipshit to begin with and I’ve got no time for that sort of person.

Time to step up and grow up; the choices are going to be Trump and Biden, period — if that choice poses an intellectual or emotional struggle for someone then they’re beyond reach.

[Terry_M]

179. Did the fact that DT could become POTUS move enough people last time?

Please remind me, I forget.

[MFM008]

29. Their needs?

They want free stuff and they dont vote
Otherwise Sanders would be on top.

[Demguy81]

32. Free stuff

That's a right wing talking point.

[mrs_p]

33. Do you have 100k plus of school loans?

Medical debt up the wazoo?

There has to be some relief in sight for them.

This thread is seriously making me reconsider my vote for Biden yesterday.

I feel sick to my stomach with all the snark and lack of plain giving a fuck about young people.

I’m back to undecided.

[Demguy81]

34. I hear you

But rude people on the internet should not decide how you vote.

[mrs_p]

36. But is this how the dem party

Wants to go?

The message should be of hope.

Not - I’m not trump so vote for me.

And I worked my ass off since I was 14 for the dem candidate. This makes me sick.

[Demguy81]

39. The message is going to be of hope.

People online, even in a competition between friends, is bound to get dicey.

[mcar]

112. This is Bernie talking points circa 2016

Maybe look at and listen to Joe's message. It is not "I'm not Trump so vote for me." Neither was that Hillary's message.

Do some homework.

[mrs_p]

121. I've done my homework

Wasn’t a Sanders or Biden supporter this go around based on policy.

[mcar]

123. So, then you know Biden's message is not

I'm not Trump; vote for me, right?

[progressoid]

188. "I'm not Trump so vote for me."

Uh, yeah. That kind of is his appeal. There are hundreds, if not thousands, if threads here about how he's the one to beat Trump. He's the most electable. Policies aren't really his main draw.

[Codeine]

154. That's not Biden's message.

But the fact is that if a young voter is uninspired by Biden’s message then they should STILL be willing, eager, and overwhelmingly enthused to vote for him because he’s not Trump.

There’s a deeper reality there that needs to be addressed, regardless of how “inspirational” (barf!) they might find the Democratic candidate for president.

You’ve been working your ass off for Democrats your whole life — nobody had to win you over or promise you shit, so why should this generation require that sort of thing? You were smart enough and astute enough to look at the choices and realize that any decent person could only vote one way.

I hold today’s young voter to the same standard to which I held myself in the 80s while looking at Bush the Elder vs Dukakis — the latter was hardly inspirational, but I sure as fuck cast my first general election vote for him. The Bernie Youth should be called upon to make that same, rather simple, calculus.

[treestar]

42. older people could count up their troubles too

they think of themselves as equal, not having to make sacrifices for others who wouldn't consider it at all.

[mrs_p]

48. Older people rule the world

And have fucked it up for everyone else.

The young feel powerless. Not listening to them will only exacerbate that. We dems should try to win them over.

[treestar]

61. So we are accused of fucking up the world

and ruling it (LOL the Republicans/Putin do that! There are many poor older people) we have to admit guilt and beg forgiveness of the powerless feeling young (which is when all other generations felt the most powerful) - this is getting too absurd.

And Bernie didn't even do it well enough or he would not be where he is today vis a vis the nomination. They don't vote and that is why they are, and thus feel, powerless. And they appear to think Bernie does it all without Congress. Where are they working on a single red/purple state Senate campaign to get the 60 needed to cancel student loan debt?

[mrs_p]

63. No. I come from poor people

And lots of them are older. And I am no spring chicken myself.

I am not saying beg forgiveness from the young. But why all the nasty snark towards his supporters, who we could try to win over?

[treestar]

79. I don't think there is nasty snark

toward the supporters generally, but towards the ones threatening that if we don't go court their votes and give them something, they won't vote. This is hard for me to understand - I know it is in my interests to vote and don't have to be courted and voted when old enough to vote. So it sounds very demanding to me - hard to imagine these people's thinking process. To be so into Bernie that you don't care what happens if he doesn't win and so drop the whole process and don't bother to vote without thinking of your own interests.

Biden's bankruptcy bill that makes it harder to discharge student debt in Bankruptcy is something they would have to be willing to forget (by realizing Dotard would only make it harder/impossible if he could). A lot of them will be unwilling to so maybe another group of voters is more likely to change.

[mrs_p]

132. Fair points

[mcar]

109. Oh please

[Codeine]

143. If young people want to feel less powerless

then they should exercise the power of their vote and turn out for their candidate. If these legions of disaffected youth want their issues front and center then all they need to do is cast a fucking ballot, for fuck’s sake!

Their are a bajillion kids — the millennial generation is enormous. If they actually started voting then Bernie would be cruising to an easy win.

But guess what — they don’t vote, do they? They go to rallies and shitpost on Reddit and start nasty hashtags on twitter and Instagram and make homophobic videos about other candidates but taking that incredibly difficult last step of spending a few minutes voting is seemingly beyond their capability.

Stop the handholding. Stop the cajoling and the convincing and the pandering. They can vote in their candidate like everyone else, and if their candidate loses they can do what every other voter does and move on to their second choice.

If you want to be listened to then you use your loudest voice, and nothing is louder than voting en masse. Older African American voters did just that a few weeks ago and changed the state of the election overnight. Young people can either learn that lesson or continue to be ignored.

[dawg day]

168. A few old rich men rule the world-

And as for powerless, come on. I have a woman friend who is 64 and hoping to reach 65 and Medicare before the breast cancer comes back.

We can trade sad stories forever. MOST people, old or young, have little power. We do have the power to vote, at least, and I hope everyone who supported a candidate who isn't the nominee will use that vote to defeat Trump.
Nothing the young people want-- nothing-- will happen if Trump wins another term. Much of it can (maybe, depending on Congress) happen if a Democrat wins.

I just heard another. The START agreement (nuclear) is set to expire in January. Trump seems eager to let it expire (ostensibly because he wants China in it, but probably because Putin wants it expired). A Democrat in office in January won't let it expire.

[LuvLoogie]

45. I have a 15 year old daughter, and a twelve year old daughter

They are the biggest reason I vote. I'm glad that Democrats were wise enough, twice, to not select Bernie as our presidential nominee.

Here's what I would tell "young people." Vote. Nihilism is lying down to trip the ones still struggling.

[MFM008]

85. when you want something

you come out for it.
They didnt vote and Sanders is down.
Do you actually thing Blotus gives a crap about
education or health care?
He would be sooooooo much better than Biden.

[Jedi Guy]

89. I don't think people here don't care about young people.

I do think that there's a definite feeling of bitterness about the way they energized Bernie's campaign, and the effect it's having overall, though. Young voters are propping up a campaign that, forgive me for saying so, seems to be built on a lot of magical thinking.

Bernie's proposals will top $50 trillion over the next 10 years, or thereabouts. When asked how he's going to pay for those proposals, he doesn't have a solid answer and reverts to "I can't account for every nickel and dime." As if billions and trillions of dollars is the sort of thing one digs from the couch. Naturally these proposals (M4A, student debt forgiveness, free university tuition, etc.) are extremely attractive to young people. The problem there is that young people, in some cases, have more passion than they do perspective.

When this campaign built on magical thinking is represented by surrogates like Nina Turner, Briahna Joy Grey, and their fellow travelers who take repeated shots at the "Democratic establishment" (and Bernie himself has done the same), of course it creates some hard feelings. Those hard feelings easily transfer to the young people who are largely driving Bernie's campaign. Without them, his campaign goes nowhere.

I don't think anyone here doesn't sympathize with young people. They've been handed a world where the cost of a decent place to live is out of control in many urban areas... but that's where you gotta be to get a job that pays well, for the most part. Then to get that job, you have to go into ruinous amounts of student debt. Oh, and by the way, climate change is going to fuck the planet up royally, so that's nice. That's always assuming, of course, that they don't get gunned down in a classroom somewhere.

I recognize these problems even though they don't all apply to me, and I recognize the urgency young people feel about them. But I'm also old enough to know that there's no magic wand that we can wave to make it all go away. And right now, Bernie for President is a hideously dangerous roll of the dice. A good chance of incremental change is better, to me, than a small chance of radical change. I'm sympathetic to young folks, but not to the point of being unrealistic about how the world works.

TL;DR This is just generational conflict magnified through the lens of politics, that's all. Older people are content with incremental change. Younger people want a revolution. Same old story, but magnified thanks to the fuckedupness of our times.

[mrs_p]

99. Love your reply

And that’s how I feel too.

I’m in academia so am around young people all the time. I can’t ignore them or denigrate them for feeling the way they do.

[dawg day]

171. Was Sanders going to forgive student loans?

I care a great deal about young people. I have taught them for 30 years.

I don't see Sanders as a savior for young people because I see only evidence of rhetoric, not action. I see his value as a gadfly and enthusiast who can push a more effective leader further to the left while keeping focus on important issues. But there's little evidence he would be the person capable of making any of his plans happen. I wish he could, but he actually never has gotten much done before.

The much more moderate Obama got much more actually done, even with a hostile Senate.
And Biden's free community college plan (Disclaimer, I teach in community college and am very dedicated to the mission) is more likely to happen than Sanders' free tuition program (because it's much much cheaper and more targeted to help students who need to budget their education-- even those going to 4-year schools would be able to take most Gen Ed courses at the community college and save a lot).

Sanders isn't the only or the best person to get things done. He is the best person for spotlighting the value of really progressive policies and making the more moderate candidates choose more liberal planks. That's an important role.

[mrs_p]

173. I am in total agreement

And why I didn’t want to nor did I vote for BS. I can’t see any of his promises coming to fruition as there are no real plans.

I am also an academic and making education affordable is a passion. The cost of education is too high, especially for those who come from the lower classes who get absolutely no help and have to finance everything.

I do think we should bring younger people into the fold as much as possible. Express how Biden’s plans can get us closer to the goal of affordable education. And I love CCs. I did most of my vet school prerequisites at nights at a CC while I worked full time.

I am alarmed, though, at the attitude of many in this thread regarding the younger voters. I’ll chalk it up to primary tensions.

[John Fante]

50. Young voters ignored their own needs in 2016.

That's how we got the Farting Fuhrer.

[mrs_p]

55. You can't blame Trump

On young people. That’s ridiculous.

[John Fante]

60. I didn't blame young voters for Trump, but they didn't turn out in numbers

necessary to defeat him. That's just a fact.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

116. True dat... don't see how that's even disputable!!

Bernie/Elizabeth or Elizabeth/Bernie 2020!!
Either way, they're stronger together & can't be bought!!
Jump on the Bernie Bandwagon & join the revolution!!

[NurseJackie]

197. "He can't just ignore them and their needs." -- Oh, for fuck's sake! Stop it, will ya?!

"He can’t just ignore them and their needs."

Oh, for fuck's sake! Stop it, will ya?! What a ridiculous thing to say. Biden is not "ignoring" anyone!

[KPN]

77. The voter turnout has been higher in 2020 compared

to 2016. The only data I’ve seen is the share of turnout made up of younger age groups. Haven’t seen a lot of data that the actual numbers are down however. It could be that the share of total turnout is down significantly, but not the actual numbers? There is also quite a bit of data showing never Trumpers voting in primaries thus far (presumably former Rs or Is). No question younger age groups don’t turn out at rates older age groups do. But I think the data may be inconclusive at this point as to whether Sanders did significantly worse in turning out youth than 2016 at this point. Perhaps 2016 was more a reflection of turnout for HRC?

[Happyhippychick]

2. No he really doesn't, and he really can't

Bernie supporters cannot be "won over", they want Bernie or bust. But luckily, it won't matter because they are an unreliable voting block.

[Kaleva]

3. Young voters bailed on Sanders

[NurseJackie]

4. No he doesn't.

[oasis]

113. They better wake up. Ruth Bader Ginsburg won't be around forever. nt

[NurseJackie]

120. They don't care. Being able to say "told you so" is more important...

... even if they have to create the conditions for it to happen. These people like Cenk, and MM and Krystal Ball who refuse to vote remind me a lot of the the doomsday cults and armageddonists who think that it's their duty to bring about the End Times. Same principle, different reasons. I guess this 1950's stile "revolution" thing they want isn't going to materialize unless the true believers can do something to make it even WORSE than it is now, thus making "revolution" look desirable. It's just the most insane thing I've ever heard, yet people are really into this shit.

[stopbush]

5. Biden can't win them all over and he doesn't need to.

He can forget about the 10-12% who voted for tRump in 2016 and who will probably vote for trump again. They’re not redeemable under any scenario.

He doesn’t have to win over the 80% of Sanders voters who will vote for Biden.

That leaves 8-10% of Sanders voters to worry about, which is a fairly insignificant head count when one considers D voter turnout so far in 2020.

So, no, he doesn’t have to win over any of them.

[still_one]

8. If Sanders is the nominee he has to win over Biden supporters, and he has given no indication that

he cares to do that

[mrs_p]

25. So Biden shouldn't be like Sanders

He should try to engage young people and what they care about.

[treestar]

44. but he can't change his policies to Bernie's

or he'd lose the others who voted for him.

[mrs_p]

52. No. But perhaps at least

Listen and talk about service for repayment programs, at least the desire for a future where tuition isn’t the cost of a house, medical debt relief.

[emmaverybo]

88. He has. And he will.He will get the forgiveness program up and running, expand it dramatically,

expand Pell Grants, offers plan for discharge through bankruptcy, and free two year college.

[mrs_p]

93. Those are great!

[NYMinute]

49. We already know what they care about and we don't want to give free tuition

and blanket debt relief at the expense of hard working people who don't go to college.

[treestar]

68. That's what they never tell us; HOW to win them over

What would win them over?

Would they compromise at all and vote for Biden unless it is EVERYTHING they want? What would happen if Biden said he was for cancellation of student debt and M4All? Do they think that Biden turning into Bernie wouldn't alienate the people who voted for Biden?

It comes down to them demanding to be more equal than others.

[NYMinute]

70. They need a messiah.

We can't offer one.

[mrs_p]

69. There is an entire generation

Shackled to school debt - more than any generation before them. We are going to have to face that sooner or later.

[NYMinute]

73. The ones that can't pay the debts are mainly graduates of unmarketable fields.

If one spends $50,000 in getting a degree in "left hand puppetry" the prospects for a job are dim.

They are asked to pursue their "passion" -- well, passion doesn't earn income - marketable skills do.

Those who go into accounting, engineering, law, marketing, journalism, meteorology, medicine, nursing, physical therapy, landscape design, architecture etc. are able to pay off their debts. Miming and puppetry or literature and philosophy, not so much.

[mrs_p]

78. That's simply not true

Professional school can be 300k + and loan forgiveness programs are not coming through.

Why make fun of people. It’s what repubs do.

[NYMinute]

80. There are degrees and there are degrees

No every field is marketable.

[mrs_p]

87. Most of the people I know

With debt got it in graduate school with the more desirable degrees.

Still can’t pay their bills.

If we stay this course, only rich people will be able to afford an education.

Why wouldn’t our party want to lift people out of poverty (like I was) with a strong student loan forgiveness program?

[NYMinute]

133. Perhaps they should have done some market research

to see the job potential of graduate education.

Generally, a masters degree doesn't increase job prospects nor earning capacity.

[mrs_p]

135. These are doctors

In the public sector and veterinarians.

[NYMinute]

146. Doctors can get their tuition debt paid off

by working in underprivileged, USPHS or IHS. Same with nurses and nurse practitioners. There is a shortage of veterinarians in the US - perhaps relocating to where the openings are?

I think there is adequate income - but the complaint is that the debt payment is preventing them from enjoying a doctor's lifestyle. Doctors in the US make between 180K to $1.2 million a year depending upon specialty.

[mrs_p]

151. Loan forgiveness isn't happening

Like it was promised when many (including me) signed the loan papers.

I’m sure Biden will fix what Devos has broken

I also suspect what you say about doctors is true. But vets won’t typically ever make that kind of money. And the vet med loan repayment program is very competitive and only takes away a fraction of the loan cost.

[emmaverybo]

92. And families, including elderly and disabled members, are experiencing an epidemic of foreclosures,

Millennials with a B.A., as reported by Politico, make on average 100 thousand plus. Any debt relief should be carefully targeted and not spend the bank on one demographic. The debt that is killing millennials is credit card debt.

[dawg day]

172. I think that's what many of us think-- we have to think past the slogan to all the considerations-

Free community college tuition benefits working class people, and also middle class (you can take Gen Ed classes and transfer those to the 4-year college, saving many thousants). Also, community colleges have a far more diverse population both in income and in age. AND community colleges now offer 1-year certificate programs in necessary job skills, like CNA, construction skills, and technology.

I look at the two proposals, and I truly think Biden's is more useful, and will help many more young people over the years, at a much lower cost.

Free tuition doesn't help anyone who already has accumulated great debt, so that would be another area to deal with. But it has to get done, and it has to be shown to benefit the country as a whole to get the votes necessary in Congress. I think we can make an effective case for loan forgiveness as unlocking the energy and ambition of young people. Elizabeth Warren has made that case.

[Demsrule86]

166. Fuck that . Hillary tried... so not worth it.

[NYMinute]

175. ++++++

[Codeine]

155. You mean #bendtheknee wasn't enough to convince you?!

[W_HAMILTON]

9. You can't win over those that don't want to be won over.

If Sanders supporters truly care about universal healthcare, raising the minimum wage, addressing gun violence, immigration reform, etc., then they will support Biden, Democrats, and the Democratic Party that are for all of those things come November.

If they care more about Sanders winning than those things, then they can't be won over, so there is no need to waste time on trying to win them over. Look at how much good it did Hillary. Let's learn from our mistakes and focus on getting out the vote for those that support our agenda and want Trump out of office rather than wasting our time compromising and kowtowing to those that don't.

[treestar]

40. Exactly

They keep doing this, but we know they can't be "won over" or they would be by now. And who likes to be blackmailed - do as we say or we'll let Dump win. They are cult members, not reasonable political actors.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

10. Why? They don't vote.

[Buzz cook]

11. He certainly does.

Biden can reach Sanders supporters if he starts addressing the issues important to them. Housing costs, the minimum wage, and the high cost of education to start.

Biden needs to start talking policy, he has to go beyond just having statements on a web site.

[beachbumbob]

13. biden needs to do nothing, its up to the young voters if they are better off with trump or not,

If they think trump is their guy, go for. The rest of true democrats will do all WE can to save our country and WE won't forget who helped us or NOT.

[mrs_p]

38. No. Think long term

We must try to engage them. Give up on them and there will be no dem party down the road.

[Kaleva]

75. Historically, the young don't turn out to vote and there still is a Dem Party.

[beachbumbob]

91. if they attention to the news and not the latest WOW game, they will be engaged, nobody

coddled me to be engage with the process. I became very aware when leftist took over and gave us McGovern

[frazzled]

14. Sanders needs to win over the black voters and suburban and rural white voters

They make up for the small percentage of the younger voters who may refuse to get on board.

I think Sanders supporters need to stop telling the rest of the population what to do.

[Sucha NastyWoman]

16. Too late

hes already done

[frazzled]

19. I was being sarcastic.

Probably should have made that explicit.

[treestar]

41. that's so true, Bernie could not win without that

and they are greater in number.

[emmaverybo]

94. +++++++++++++++++++++++

[LizBeth]

15. Nothing will endear these people to vote for Biden, if Trump doesn't already do it. Nothing.

[SiliconValley_Dem]

17. No he doesn't

[LanternWaste]

18. Biden's coalition is already deep and wide.

Anyone refusing at this point may of course blame Biden for their own stubbornness and intractability, but that blame is simply to rationalize their own actions as something other than what they are.

[mercuryblues]

20. No he shouldn't

People voted for Biden precisely because they liked his policies more than Sanders. If he adopts any of Sanders' policies as his own it will be general election suicide.

It is up to Sanders to propel his voters towards Biden. Unfortunately he has boxed himself in on that front by calling the Democratic party the establishment and other derogatory terms, every freaking chance he got. Of course the "establishment" infrastructure was just fine for Bernie to use to run his campaign. No hypocrisy in that at all.

[romana]

21. Like it or not Bernie has to get his base to support Biden

It's a two-way street. Bernie needs to do for Biden what he wouldn't do for Hillary in 2016 (and what Hillary did for Obama in 2008) and that is do the hard work of unifying the party instead of throwing a hissy fit over losing. They will follow his lead, so he needs to be a leader.

[Indykatie]

31. Bernie is NOT Going to A Leader. Count on him Doing as Little as Possible to Bring along His Support

The good news is that support is much diminished from 2016 when he captured the anti-Hillary vote. Biden is attracting votes from demographics that would never have voted for Hillary.

[LAS14]

26. Hopefully he won't have to win them over. Hopefully Trump will push them over. nt

[showblue22]

27. If they didn't go out to vote for Bernie they sure as hell are not in a GE.

[lapfog_1]

30. Nope... we will need to run an even more "centrist"

campaign to attract the remaining independents and never trumpers.

Because we can't count on Bernie people to "vote Blue no matter who".

That's the truth.

I want them to vote... I want their input... I would love to run more to the left. But what if we do and then they don't show up to vote because Bernie isn't the top name on the ticket?

We can't take the risk.

[progressoid]

35. NO HE DOESN'T!111!

I love the declaration that Biden doesn't need the Bernie supporters. A quick re-wind and the same people were blaming Bernie supporters for not showing up to support Hillary (even though a vast majority did).

Which is it? Do we need the support of these lazy, young, want-everything-for-free, leftists or not?

[treestar]

65. why do they have to be "won over" when Dump in office is not in their interests

and secondly, how in the world is winning them over to be done? I have a feeling nothing Biden will do will be good enough for some percentage of them.

[progressoid]

96. Same reason any voter needs to be "won over." So we can fucking win.

In Michigan alone (ya know - the state that we lost last time), over a half million voters chose Sanders this time around. How many of those voters do you think we can afford to ignore just because we can't get over some middle-school resentment?

[treestar]

98. Well then how are they to be won over?

They are not the same. They demand more than the other dropped-out candidate's supporters. You didn't answer my point about what they would want. IMO there are things that could be done, but then right here on this board would be assertions it is too little, too late, not enough.

[progressoid]

100. They are not the same as who?

And they demand more? Is there a metric out there for measuring this?

[treestar]

114. Well how are they to be won over?

We don't have to win over Mayor Pete's or Klobuchar's voters. There's not a single thread saying that we better do that like it or not, like there is about Bernie's. But what then would court them or convince them?

[progressoid]

122. Yes we do have to win over Pete and Amy's voters.

And Warren's and Kamala's and...

The main reason there is not a single thread saying it about other candidates is that DU has an unhealthy obsession with Sanders. Also Sanders has the next biggest block of supporters.

How are they to be won over? Ask Bernie. He got 88% of his "bros" to vote for Hillary (which was better that she did for Barack). Or maybe Hillary got them to voter for her in spite of Bernie? Either way, just turning away in a huff ain't gunna work.



Regarless, I hope it's not like this cringeworthy attempt to get Kamala's K-Hive to support Biden.

Link to tweet

[Codeine]

157. I'm fifty years old, I've always voted,

and nobody ever had to “win me over.” That is some facile-ass bullshit right there. I’ve ALWAYS been eager to cast my vote for what is right and good, and the Democratic Party is both of those things. Pretending otherwise is ridiculous.

My primary candidate almost ALWAYS loses. I don’t feel ignored (mostly because I’m not a fucking idiot) and I still vote Blue No Matter Who because that’s what decent people do.

[progressoid]

176. Have you ever canvassed door to door?

I have through 5 presidential elections and numerous off year elections. I've met a lot of people out there who don't match your personal experience. People who, for a myriad number of reasons, need to be convinced. That's why we have commercials, bulk mailings, phone banks, bumper stickers, yard signs, and volunteers like me who go door to door to get out the vote.

[StarfishSaver]

165. This "you have to win me over" is a new thing

I never approached politics that way. When I was a young voter, I didn't expect politicians to "connect" with me or cater to my every desire.

This notion that young voters are some kind of reality show prize expecting contestants to vie for their attention is really bizarre.

[progressoid]

177. Your anecdotal experience is not evidence

As I said above, a lot of people out there who don't match your personal experience. People who, for a myriad number of reasons, need to be convinced. That's why we have commercials, bulk mailings, phone banks, bumper stickers, yard signs, and volunteers like me who go door to door to get out the vote.

[Codeine]

184. It does feel very alien to me.

Even before I was old enough to vote I watched the news and read the paper; I knew which side I was on and as soon as I could I cast my lot in with them and have never wavered.

I didn’t require inspiration, or some kind of buy-in, I just fucking voted so my voice could be heard. Isn’t that our job as citizens?

[StarfishSaver]

186. Precisely

And I didn't expect the candidates to "connect with me" or for me to feel that they were my best friend. In fact, I recognized that they were kind of fuddy duddies, like my parents, whom I also didn't expect to cater to my every political whim. I knew I was new at this and didn't know very much, so I saw it as my responsibility to listen and learn. And while I thought I had a valuable perspective and opinions to contribute, I didn't think everyone was supposed to do exactly as I said, or else.

I didn't demand to be inspired. And those times in which I did feel inspired, I saw as a bonus.

As I said, this attitude is very foreign to me.

[progressoid]

187. Who said anything about demanding to be inspired?

The OP said, "try to appeal to them."

That hardly seems like a demand.

[Jarqui]

37. I realize the Sanders supporters have to make a decision:

Biden or Trump

In terms of "winning over" Sanders supporters, that is the effective choice (even if they vote third party or don't vote).

It's really very, very simple.

I was there in 2016. I supported Bernie.
The choice then was Clinton or Trump.
I chose Hillary. Not all my fellow Sanders supporters did.

Hopefully, we learned something from that.

[StarfishSaver]

43. Maybe if Bernie had tried to win over any other candidates supporters, he wouldn't be losing

But, for some reason, he seems to think that he and his supporters are the only people who need to be courted.

[NYMinute]

46. A veiled threat?

If I don't get to play, I'm taking my ball home?

[IluvPitties]

56. Nope. He won, and it's either him or Trump.

You don't support Biden, then you support Trump. It is simple. Either you are with Joe or with Trump.

[napi21]

58. I'm sure that's one reason Joe complimentd Berbie and his campaign last night in his speech.

We DO need to win over the Bernie supporters who got ticked off in 2015 and as payback to the Dem Party for not treating Bernie fairly. We need to let this campaign play out to prove to his supporters that Bernie has been treated fair this time & everybody needs to follow the will of the voters.

[Squinch]

76. No he fucking doesn't. This game has not helped BSs opponents

in the past. There is nothing to be gained from playing it.

He doesn't need to win them over any more than he has to win over the followers of Liz and Kamala and Pete and Michael and Amy or any of the other candidates.

It is incumbent on the voters to act like adults. And it is incumbent on all of us to NOT appease or normalize or legitimize the demands for participation prizes.

[Clash City Rocker]

81. He has to win over people who won't vote? Why?

The people he has to win over are the people who voted for Obama and then for a Trump. Most Bernie supporters will either vote for the Democratic candidate regardless of who he is, or won’t vote for Biden regardless of his actions.

[emmaverybo]

82. Win over people who did not come out for their own candidate? The hard-core Berners who

spread vicious lies? Sure, reasonable supporters. But no making concessions to the extremist followers.

Clear up misconceptions. No president will free them of student loan debt day one or institute M4All. Explain Biden policies. He is for minimum wage, universal healthcare, much of GND.

But if Biden campaign embraces the most extreme positions, it will lose more voters than it gains.

[Renew Deal]

84. If they are so "progressive" that they need to be convinced to vote for Biden...

We don't need to waste our time.

[Hortensis]

86. Sanders Democratic supporters are Democrats and already on board.

It's insulting to them to pretend they aren't.

The MINORITY of Sanders' minority who are antagonistic to Democrats are very different. Those who can are of course entirely welcome to ally with us. But we don't deserve the hostile notions driving most that we're what's wrong with our nation, and we can't fix whatever has gone wrong in their heads.

We should blame Sanders for feeding and exploiting their unfortunate delusions, but only to the point of getting that out and not wasting a second's more time on it than needed to move on past.

It's critical to keep our eyes on the real prize: The enormously larger population of moderate conservatives and "indies" who are joining us to throw out Trump. Those we have to have to keep winning and hold onto in a vital alliance after next November. We all have very big work to do and the exciting opportunities to advance that Republican destruction has created.

[William769]

95. I don't see Bernie winning with them.

Why aren't they voting now? And if not now, why should we expect them to vote in November?

[Funtatlaguy]

101. Trump will do that job for Biden. Most Sanders people hate Trump.

[C_U_L8R]

102. No one was ever REQUIRED to win me over.

Many of us JOINED the DEMOCRATIC party because we know
we can do GREAT THINGS together SUPPORTING our own candidates.
Join in or start your own damned party but don't whine, waiting
around for an ass kissing or a fancy invitation.

[Codeine]

159. Exactly.

My fucking responsibility as a citizen of a democracy is to cast my vote, and my fucking responsibility as a decent and worthy human being is to cast that vote for a Democrat.

Everything else is just whining bullshit.

[bluedye33139]

103. I don't think special plays to the youth are needed

Voters under 30 have been approximately 10% of the primary process so far, and they also play a minor role in the general election.

My hope would be that a pro-environmental and pro-equality perspective will appeal to young voters. I do wonder if you're specifically talking about free college, something that Joe Biden is unlikely to really push for as Democrats in general are not pushing for it.

How would he appeal to the under 30 voters? Are there specific policies or programs he should be pushing for?

[Hoyt]

104. Are they really that stupid to not comprehend the threat trump represents?

[Demsrule86]

105. No he doesn't.

[dsp3000]

107. I was 23 when i voted for obama the first time

us young obama voters are older now and i am sure we will turn out to vote for biden. its those ones younger than us that need to come out now!

[Squinch]

108. PS: When are you guys going to stop with that "young voters" nonsense?

Bernie has never brought out young voters, no matter how much he says he does.

He never has.

[oasis]

110. The young need Biden to beat Trump more than any other demographic.

They're the ones who will be stuck with decades of his judicial appointees.

[still_one]

118. Like it or not, if Trump isn't enough to vote for the Democratic nominee, then NOTHING will convince

them

In the General Election in 2016 the SUPREME COURT, that wasn't enough. This was their response then:

https://www.democraticunderground.com/1280104210

[samnsara]

119. if they dont see the danger of not voting for the dem nom WHOMEVER it is..

..then they are lost already...

[underpants]

127. Agreed.

[58Sunliner]

128. It's not whether or not I like it. It just isn't really true.

[stonecutter357]

129. BS has lost time to get over it !

[eilen]

131. It is up to them to fall in line for the winning candidate, the Nominee.

If they don't, they are not really Democrats. We have a big job to do and honestly, don't need to waste any time, energy or money on perennially dissatisfied spoil sports. Biden determines his plank and that becomes the Democratic Party's Plank at Convention. That is what we voted for.

Honestly, I am tired of this shit.

[PubliusEnigma]

142. Like it or not, the election will be between Biden and Trump. Choose wisely.

[Hekate]

150. Like it or not Sanders has to tell his supporters to grow up. The rest of the voters are speaking...

...loud and clear. There is no smoke-filled room. There's just us -- and we elected Hillary last time.

[Bettie]

156. From reading through this

the Biden supporters on this board seem to have the idea that his campaign should focus on sending a big Fuck You to those who aren't moderate.

Sounds really inspiring.

I hope Biden has a different idea than that.

[Codeine]

161. No, but I do send a BIIIG "fuck you"

to anyone who doesn’t have the basic common sense and common decency and common humanity to vote against Trump.

Kids are in cages — what the actual fuck else needs to be fucking said?

[LongtimeAZDem]

164. Anyone who would fail to do everything possible to stop Trump deserves far more than a few nasty words

[Bettie]

169. Would it cost you all that much

to be nice for a second to some people who are feeling really awful right now? Or is kicking them your go-to move?

That's the point.

[Codeine]

185. Why would they feel awful?

It’s a fucking politician, man. This isn’t your dog dying or a family member falling ill, it’s just some dude who doesn’t know you from Adam not getting the promotion you were really pulling for him to get.

Stop investing emotional energy into government functionaries. Just make your choice and be prepared to make a second or third choice should it come to that. Then vote Blue and smile.

[LongtimeAZDem]

189. I am sympathetic to anyone who feels let down, but

not voting to oust Trump because of it is childish and contemptible.

[TwilightZone]

174. People shouldn't have to be inspired to vote against Trump.

People shouldn't have to be inspired to vote for anyone who can put a stop to the disaster of his presidency.

People shouldn't have to be inspired to vote at all. It's a civic duty and a social responsibility. If people really care about inequality or about the poor or those in debt or those without adequate health care as much as they claim to, they should be rushing to the polls to vote Trump out of office and get the next Democratic president a Congress that can pass progressive legislation.

The constant demands for attention and demands to be catered to just look selfish and self-centered. I've been voting for more than 30 years. Never once have I required that a candidate inspire me to show up at the voting booth. I understand the alternatives.

[Bettie]

182. And yet, it costs nothing to be less nasty to

people whose candidate isn't doing well. Nothing.

Frankly, I didn't mind Biden, until I looked at his fan club here.

Some are decent, more are nasty enough to give the "bros" a run for their money.

And yet, I'll vote for him, even though I'm told regularly that my kind (people who are farther left than "moderate&quot don't even belong in the party.

[dawg day]

158. Those young Obama voters are lot older now, lol.

I think biden shouldn't antagonize Sanders voters, but his huge margins suggest that he doesn't need to abandon his own plans to try (and probably fail... Clinton tried too) to seduce them. He can listen and learn, agree with the overall goals... but if Sanders voters want some gesture of obeisance... well, they might be disappointed.

Michigan's huge voter surge seems to be mostly about Biden.

[aikoaiko]

167. I'm sure Joe won't need a single Bernie supporter to crush Trump.

I'm sure.

[MrsCoffee]

192. I'm sure Bernie supporters care if we have four more years of Trump.

I’m sure.

[ecdab]

190. Biden versus Trump should be a no brainer for any voters, even young ones

There is this weird vibe moving through some of Bernie's folks that they're going to let Trump walk to victory if Biden doesn't give them some ethereal something. The folks that allow themselves to sound that way really need to understand that they don't sound very clever and they don't sound very progressive. What they sound like is either a low information voter or a Russian/GOP troll spouting divisive nonsense.

I like big ideas and I like Bernie even if there are things about his campaign that I don't like. But this whole "give me something more or I'll stay home and watch Trump win" stuff serves no purpose. I get the general sense that most folks spouting this stuff haven't even looked at what Biden is running on other than through the lens that his campaign opposition has provided to them. Maybe some folks should give Biden a clear eyed look now that Bernie has no path victory and see what is actually there instead of demanding some kind of something.

[MrsCoffee]

191. Like it or not, Sanders supporters have a choice between Biden and Trump.

If they are too stubborn or cruel to choose wisely, there isn’t much anyone could say or do to fix that.

[treestar]

193. why are they the only ones trying to use leverage?

It shows that Bernie is not a Democrat, no matter what their claims. If they were Democrats, they would not use their position as leverage. And if they want the Democrat to win, how are their positions on issues relevant? Why would they not help GOTV or add their support without getting something in return, something that has nothing to do with winning the election but just appeasing them?

[Tarc]

195. Why can't we phrase this as "like it or not, Sanders' supporters have to suck it up...

...and support the best of the two options in the fall" ?

I, sometimes even surprisingly to myself, voted for Bernie in NH, thought he had the best shot at the time.

The dynamics have since changed, significantly, and I fully recognize that this is now Joe's race.

[BooScout]

200. Naaaah....

They can vote for Biden or Trump. Their choice.

[still_one]

201. +++

[stopdiggin]

202. Young voters failed to show up for Sanders

in any significant numbers. Young voters loath DJT. ALL voters will have a clear choice this fall between Trump and Joe Biden. If you don't feel "inspired" to vote by that contrast .. then I just don't have a lot of sympathy (or time) for you.

Next please! -- --

[Gothmog]

203. Maybe not

sanders not dropping out may help Biden. sanders keeps on losing primaries by large margins nnly strenghten's Joe's position https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2020/03/11/no-surprise-bernie-sanders-is-still-all-about-himself-never-party/

Sanders’s remaining in the race should serve several salutary purposes for the party and the country. First, seeing him lose overwhelmingly week after week will dispel the notion that the Democratic Party has moved left, or that he is in a dominant position to negotiate with the overwhelming winner. It’s not clear why the Biden camp should “give” Sanders anything.

Second, it is good to keep Biden in fighting form, continuing to boost turnout and showing, as he did in Philadelphia, how presidential he is. Biden can pivot to the general election, essentially ignoring Sanders. (His planned speech on the coronavirus is the perfect opportunity to leave Sanders out of the discussion entirely.)....

Whoever is to replace Sanders as the standard-bearer for the left — hopefully someone as smart and wonky as Sen. Elizabeth Warren (D-Mass.) — will need to learn how to win elections. (Hint: It is not by scaring voters or attaching oneself to the socialist label.) When in office, a new generation of leaders on the left will need to learn the art of deal-making rather than waste years, as Sanders has, rabble-rousing but accomplishing nothing. Unlike Sanders, Warren (or whoever else takes the reins) will not be burdened by a record of reflexively praising dictators nor be driven to attack fellow Democrats.

Sanders will end the race at some point, a diminished figure. In retrospect, his wins in 2016 will be seen more as an anti-Hillary Clinton vote than a pro-Sanders vote. How he behaves at Sunday’s debate will determine whether he leaves a bad taste in the mouths of Democrats.