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politicat

(9,810 posts)
Wed Jun 18, 2014, 10:28 PM Jun 2014

I could use some feedback on a delicate situation.

My grandmother has diminished capacity from a stroke 18 months ago. She has varying memory issues, her motivation is impaired, and her emotional regulation is iffy, among other issues. According to the psychiatrist who recently evaluated her, she's intellectually and emotionally between 8 and 13, but with the fractured memories and habits of 70+ years. I'm a psychologist, and I agree; emotionally, she's deep in the surly, hormone-y teenager place; in terms of planning and focus, she and my 8 year old nephew are on par.

When she had her stroke, it was underestimated in terms of severity, because she didn't lose any speech, nor did she lose significant movement. (She now shuffles one foot.) Her social skills appear pretty hard-wired; she may hunt for words or circumlocute, or change the subject, or just echo what she's heard, but she can fake being fine pretty well, and if someone isn't paying attention, they won't notice her diminished capacity. But her personality changed -- she became impulsive, unmotivated, far more easily distracted, incapable of planning or concentration and can be easily manipulated.

The problem is that her stroke was misdiagnosed and she was on her own for about 6 months after it happened -- no therapy, no follow-ups -- and she lived then in a little town about spitting distance from the middle of nowhere. And sometime in that six months, she started a relationship with a guy I'll call Bruce who went to her high school.*

Bruce has about 5 years on her, and seems cognitively fine. He's also married, so their thing was an affair. (This is part of what I mean about her personality changed -- before the stroke, yes, she dated and had relationships, but adultery was not at all okay. "Don't mess with the married" is actual dating advice in my family.) He was sneaking out to visit my grandmother, made sure they were never seen together, parked his car where nobody could see it, uses a pre-paid cell phone to talk to her -- yep, all the markers of cheating.

I have zero objections to open relationships and consenting adults doing their thing. I have issues with cheating. The lies are corrosive, and they hurt everyone. I especially dislike being dragged into somebody else's closet to keep their secrets. I have very massive issues with consent. As I see it, there are three people in this relationship -- Bruce, Mrs. Bruce and my grandmother -- and only one of them has consented. Mrs. Bruce is being kept in the dark, and my grandmother has a permanent case of being rufie'd.

Currently, the relationship between Gran and Bruce is all by phone -- he's 1000 miles away -- but it was physical, and I think financial (there's money missing, but I can't figure out if Gran spent it, squirreled it, or gave it away). I don't think I'd object to the phone sexy times if Bruce was supportive and on the recovery team -- emotional peer support is critical. But he's not. (Or at least, not according to Gran. Who is, by definition, an unreliable narrator, but this is her emotional truth.) According to her, he tells her that she should return to their small town, that he will take care of her, that they'll be together. He tells her she doesn't need assisted living and that she can totally drive. (Again, this could be in Gran's head.) He appears to be the source of her persistent belief that she is only here temporarily and that she'll be going back Any Day Now. I've also heard some of their conversations and his messages -- I find the guy repellant, borderline abusive and a general jerk, but I'm a 3rd wave feminist who doesn't tolerate what women of my gran's generation took as normal.

That Going Back Any Day Now is a toxic belief for her, because it means she's not making friends, not interested in her community, not investing.** The truth is that she will never be independent again and Bruce will never be her caretaker. (I don't think it's a coincidence that his interest has increased as her assets have become more liquid.)

I'm not a parent, but this really feels like having a rebellious, infatuated 13 year old. (I remember BEING that kid.) The advantage to a 77 year old love-sick teenager is that she can't run away (literally) but the difficulty is that the tools I'd use with a teenager (block the phone, take it away, enroll her in an immersive activity) aren't available or are more questionable. She's an adult.

For me, the consent thing is the big issue -- Gran doesn't have the capacity to consent. If her relationship was with an intellectual peer, I would be less skeptical. If the relationship was long-standing, I'd be more okay with it. If her FWB was single, I'd be fine with it. But we're talking someone without an intellectual disability who arrived recently in her life, and is doing this clandestinely. Together, that's a lot of sketch.

I've got a couple of options. I can have a pointed convo with Bruce. I can simply block his number from calling her, and make him go away that way. Consciousness raising and logic hasn't worked (because this is dementia, not teenage hormones...) Or... ?

I'm just at wit's end on this, because I see the pattern: Bruce calls, they talk or whatever, for the next day, I get nothing but "When am I going home?" and she refuses to leave her room because he might call. She skips activities that she enjoys waiting for a call (which doesn't happen half the time). When he doesn't call for a few days (or she misses his calls because she's out), she gets more engaged in the community, but as soon as they talk, it's back to crap. Also, she tends to fall more when they're talking regularly, as if something he's saying is distracting or bothering her. (No, I can't just talk it out with her. She either evades or genuinely can't recall or confabulates, or doesn't want to disappoint me, or doesn't want to talk about her guy. It's the stroke.)

*They went to the same high school, but he graduated before she started, enlisted, married, lived elsewhere, then moved back a few years ago, and they didn't start hooking up until after her stroke. This isn't a life-long what-if-let's-try thing.

** That state has pretty wretched laws on nursing homes and assisted living. The law here is more elder friendly (greater latitude for what requires long-term care, no restraints, no alarms allowed). She's improved very much under the care she gets here, but she's reached a plateau and this is as good as it gets, and this good is regularly falls down, can't manage her own meds, can't remember to eat, needs help dressing and bathing. There's a reason she's here.

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uppityperson

(115,819 posts)
1. What a situation for both of you. Does someone have POA or such legal rights about her?
Wed Jun 18, 2014, 11:33 PM
Jun 2014

Marking to read later.

politicat

(9,810 posts)
4. I have her POA, I'm the Trustee, the designated responsible party.
Thu Jun 19, 2014, 09:36 AM
Jun 2014

As to why... I don't know. My mom's in the picture and their relationship is fine... But I'm considered the clever one. That might be it, or that teenage conflicts cut a lot of scars that last.

Also, my mother lives three states further on, and my grandmother absolutely hates it there. That may have something to do with it.

pnwmom

(109,495 posts)
7. There are different kinds of POA's. There's a medical power of attorney
Sat Jun 21, 2014, 12:08 AM
Jun 2014

and there's a durable power of attorney, which you need if you are going to help her manage her financial assets. You need both.

What is the "designated responsible party"? Does it appoint you as guardian in case she needs one?

politicat

(9,810 posts)
9. Heh. I have the complete, durable POA, I'm the trustee, executor, and the admin.
Thu Jun 26, 2014, 10:16 PM
Jun 2014

The durable has the medical built in. When she told me she made the decision (several years ago, before any of this started) to put me in charge, she said that she intentionally made it as broad, deep and durable as her attorney would allow, because she knew herself well enough to know that when diminished capacity hit, she would fight it. And I got picked (in part) because she trusted me not to take her crap when she needed help.

At least she could forecast then what she's like now. I think that's the hardest part -- not seeing that sharp, tough side anymore.

pnwmom

(109,495 posts)
10. She's very lucky to have you.
Thu Jun 26, 2014, 10:20 PM
Jun 2014

And I'm glad you have a grandmother who has meant so much to you -- though I know it must be so hard to see her deteriorate like this.

My grandmother was only 68 when we lost her, and I was devastated.

robinlynne

(15,481 posts)
14. It is hard, but at some point you have to simply take over.
Sun Aug 31, 2014, 03:16 PM
Aug 2014

The "fight" seems too terrible to get into. But if you don't someone else will. Your Grandma sounds like beginning to middle dementia... Mom was like that 3 years ago. Now doesnt know my name. You cant force the "truth" or reality, onto someone with dementia. There is a book, called the 36 hour day which will help you a lot with your feelings and interactions with grandma. When grasp of what is real slips, it is better to just say ye s and go along with whatever is perceived as real. A logical rational discussion ends up generating anger from the person with dementia, as you become a threat... After some years, I've learned to do it automatically, but it takes practice. For example, mom's shes were wet. I said "let's go find another pair of shoes." "but I don't live here." "I know you don't, but I bet we can find a pair of shoes for you." no pain. no objection to her view of reality.
So when can I go home, maybe gets a response about let's stay here just for another month for some reason.
Also make sure you HAVE POA. My POA said I needed 2 doctors' signatures. Now mom has court a appointed guardian for profit because I had not taken the legal steps necessary. You do not want that no matter what.
you also might ask your mom to come and help. When people are losing their memory, it is often difficult for them to know exactly who and what to trust.
Good luck. I remember not wanting to hurt Mom's feelings by taking over legally. BIG mistake. Unfortunately sometimes you have to to protect the one you love.

Alameda

(1,895 posts)
2. she is your grandmother?
Thu Jun 19, 2014, 12:37 AM
Jun 2014

where is her child? Doesn't she have someone who has POA. At any rate you are in a difficult situation, she's in love and that is a powerful incentive, at any age. It sounds like he is manipulating the situation. Is there anything you can do regarding legal issues about him? Could be he has done this type of thing before. Who knows, maybe his wife is in on it.

politicat

(9,810 posts)
5. I am it. Trustee, POA, responsible party.
Thu Jun 19, 2014, 09:41 AM
Jun 2014

My mother is involved, but my grandmother designated me.

At this point, I have her financials locked down -- he'll never get another cent. I'm not terribly worried he might come take her away (her assisted living knows she has a limited number of people allowed to take her, and I'm there all the time). Physically, financially -- she's secure. It's just the emotional side.

At least she's stayed true to form -- she has always, always had awful taste in men. (My grandfather was the exception in that he was a good guy, but they were not good together at all, so I think that fits the awful parameter.)

Habibi

(3,600 posts)
3. Yikes, that is a worrisome situation, for sure.
Thu Jun 19, 2014, 03:32 AM
Jun 2014

I'm not one to generally advise treating the elderly like children (even when that is what they are, emotionally and intellectually, due to impairment), but boy, I sure would be tempted to block his number. I like the idea of the "pointed convo" though--maybe try that first. It's best if you get cooperation. If that doesn't work, can you talk to someone "official" about your options for protecting her from exploitation? An elder-law specialist of some kind--social-worker or lawyer?

mia

(8,420 posts)
6. Tell her that Bruce is getting older and that he gets confused sometimes and might forget to call.
Fri Jun 20, 2014, 11:54 PM
Jun 2014

Praise and engage her about her involvement in the community and what is going on in present time.

My parents, who are in an independent living facility, still understand what is going in around them. I eat with them in the communal dining room several days a week. Food is pretty good, but most of all, I get to observe the comings and goings of the facility. I hope that I will be able to afford to live in a place like this, if the need be.

pnwmom

(109,495 posts)
8. I don't think blocking the phone number is a bad idea, given the circumstances.
Sat Jun 21, 2014, 12:16 AM
Jun 2014

If you can, try to spend extra time with her during the period while she's waiting to hear from him --the distraction might help. Is there any other family member she's close to? That might be a good time for a visit.

politicat

(9,810 posts)
11. Thanks.
Thu Jun 26, 2014, 10:23 PM
Jun 2014

As of today, it's been six days without a call, without our interference. And today, she finally hit her "elementary school graduation*" -- her PT and doc and medical coordinator all agreed that she was stable enough to try an outing (with support) in the community bus. Which she managed, quite well.

* I need better terms that don't convey childhood, but this is equivalent in terms of rites of passage to being allowed to ride her bike to the corner store to buy a Popsicle. We're not going to go whole hog and let her have a weekend in Vegas alone, but this, she handled.

pnwmom

(109,495 posts)
12. Good. The fact that he's retreated now that you've taken over
Thu Jun 26, 2014, 10:48 PM
Jun 2014

makes the whole situation seem that much more suspicious.

He saw a vulnerable person and was taking advantage. What a creep.

alcina

(602 posts)
13. I'm coming to this thread a bit late
Tue Jul 22, 2014, 08:21 AM
Jul 2014

But I did want to say a couple of things:

1. I commend you for looking after your grandmother. It's obvious you care deeply about her well-being, and from what you said about her setting up her POA, she obviously recognized how wonderful you are.

2. Distraction is a powerful tool. Although those with dementia can definitely be childLIKE, they lack the potential of children. So discussing, arguing, reasoning, and so forth really don't work. Even if you can get agreement in the moment, their lack of short-term memory makes any real learning nearly impossible. But distraction works, at least in my experience. In fact, just a couple of weeks ago, when my mother started asking about when she could "go home" and why my long-deceased father hadn't visited, I quickly pointed to a large bruise on my arm and said, "Mom, look what I did to myself!" Her mothering and nursing skills immediately kicked in, and we were on to another topic. And I'll confess, I've even used "Look, a squirrel!" with varying degrees of success.

Good luck and all the best.

 

Aerows

(39,961 posts)
15. I don't know what to say
Tue Oct 21, 2014, 02:26 AM
Oct 2014

Other than to give you a hug.

I have elders in my life, and heck I'll lend YOUR elder a hug.

I have a shit-ton of fears regarding the loss of either of my elders.

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