Your Princess Is in Another Castle: Misogyny, Entitlement, and Nerds

[YoungDemCA]

snip:

But the overall problem is one of a culture where instead of seeing women as, you know, people, protagonists of their own stories just like we are of ours, men are taught that women are things to “earn,” to “win.” That if we try hard enough and persist long enough, we’ll get the girl in the end. Like life is a video game and women, like money and status, are just part of the reward we get for doing well.

snip:

It’s the same motivation that makes a guy in college stalk a girl, leave her unsolicited gifts and finally when she tells him to quit it makes him leave an angry post about her “shallowness” and “cruelty” on Facebook. It’s the same motivation that makes guys rant about “fake cosplay girls” at cons and how much he hates them for their vain, “teasing” ways. The one that makes a guy suffering career or personal problems turn on his wife because it’s her job to “support” him by patching up all the holes in his life. The one that makes a wealthy entrepreneur hit his girlfriend 117 times, on camera, for her infidelity, and then after getting off with a misdemeanor charge still put up a blog post casting himself as the victim.

And now that motivation has led to six people dead and thirteen more injured, in broad daylight, with the killer leaving a 140-page rant and several YouTube videos describing exactly why he did it. No he-said-she-said, no muffled sounds through the dorm ceiling, no “Maybe he has other issues.” The fruits of our culture’s ingrained misogyny laid bare for all to see.

And yet. When this story broke, the initial mainstream coverage only talked about “mental illness,” not misogyny, a line that people are now fervently exhorting us to stick to even after the manifesto’s contents were revealed. Yet another high-profile tech CEO resignation ensued when the co-founder of Rap Genius decided Rodger’s manifesto was a hilarious joke.

People found one of the girls Rodger was obsessed with and began questioning if her “bullying” may have somehow triggered his rage. And, worst of all, he has fan pages on Facebook that still haven’t been taken down, filled with angry frustrated men singing his praises and seriously suggesting that the onus is on women to offer sex to men to keep them from going on rampages.

snip:

How much longer are we going to be in denial that there’s a thing called “rape culture” and we ought to do something about it?

No, not the straw man that all men are constantly plotting rape, but that we live in an entitlement culture where guys think they need to be having sex with girls in order to be happy and fulfilled. That in a culture that constantly celebrates the narrative of guys trying hard, overcoming challenges, concocting clever ruses and automatically getting a woman thrown at them as a prize as a result, there will always be some guy who crosses the line into committing a violent crime to get what he “deserves,” or get vengeance for being denied it.

To paraphrase the great John Oliver, listen up, fellow self-pitying nerd boys—we are not the victims here. We are not the underdogs. We are not the ones who have our ownership over our bodies and our emotions stepped on constantly by other people’s entitlement. We’re not the ones where one out of six of us will have someone violently attempt to take control of our bodies in our lifetimes.

Full article: http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/05/27/your-princess-is-in-another-castle-misogyny-entitlement-and-nerds.html

[De Leonist]

1. Not that I disagree with the article but....

I just did want to comment on one line here.

"But that we live in an entitlement culture where guys think they need to be having sex with girls in order to be happy and fulfilled"

While I don't deny the points the article is making I also want to say that men actually do get a substantial
amount of personal and emotional fulfillment from having sex with another person. The fact is men, for the most part, are horndogs. This actually isn't just societal pressure for men to be a certain way. Nor is it just sex for the sake of sex. Sex is extremely important for a man to actually feel loved and cherished by his partner.

Now I'm not saying that sex isn't important for women but that it's even more so for men. I think for Rodger and other men like him it wasn't just about a lack of sex or status or entitlement but also a lack of love, of emotional intimacy. Despite what men say we need that emotional connection as much women do. However because of societal expectations large numbers of men rarely seek out any sort of emotional closeness with another person outside of either casual sex or a romantic relationship. We men are causing great emotional harm to ourselves when we refuse to even at least cultivate a close platonic relationship with another man.

[ismnotwasm]

2. I think, if cultural influences were different

Last edited Sun Jun 15, 2014, 09:44 PM - Edit history (1)

You'd find that women want sex, and it's just as important to women as it is to men in general. One of the cultural factors holding women back is the fear of pregnancy, or the fear of being treating disrespectfully, or an culturally ingrained inability to tell their partner what feels good. ( there is still an unacceptable rate of women who 'fake' orgasm).
We still live in a world were women are called sluts for having multiple partners, We are called cold or 'lesbians' if we turn down sex from an unwanted partner. How we deal with our sexuality is always judged in a more complicated fashion than a man's is. The same sexual standards simply doesn't hold true for men.

However, I also think you're right about men needing the ability to form close friendships with other men or even women.

But it isn't exclusively a male trait either. There are women who have a hard time forming close attachments, the difference being we have societal permission, even expectations, to form close ties with other women. Men are supposed to be individualists and you're right, it does cause extensive harm, and it can isolate men and cause great loneliness.


I think people-- human beings need to deal with their desires, hetero or Gay or in-between, and move forward or move on. Easy to say, much harder to do.

You know all that talk about the so-called "friend zone"? When I was younger and single, I was hypersensitive to that kind of thing, I could always 'tell'--- but I always felt it as more of a "crush" from a guy friend-- they'd get over it, and we'd be become friends and form other relationships. There wasn't an expectation of sex, fantasy sex maybe on their part but not harmful. Not with a normal Joe, who was a friend. Talking with girlfriends , you'd find about the same thing. A crush, sometimes a devastating one, and then the move on part.

[De Leonist]

12. I'm certainly open to that possibility....

Certainly culture does affect our behavior a great deal, of course sexual behavior is no exception to this fact. However the evidence I've come across would suggest otherwise.

[nomorenomore08]

3. I don't know why you're so certain that sex is more important for men. By and large I think it's

important for everybody - bar the 2% or so of true asexuals, I suppose.

Otherwise I basically agree with your post. Physical/emotional intimacy and close platonic friendships are both important. And I do know how much a lack of the former can hurt, though it certainly hasn't caused me to lash out at anyone, other than perhaps myself.

[redqueen]

10. "men, for the most part, are horndogs"

I'm surprised no one has challenged this broad brush statement.

Gross.

[De Leonist]

11. I'm not just pulling this outta my butt here....

http://www.webmd.com/sex/features/sex-drive-how-do-men-women-compare

"Well, yes, they do. Study after study shows that men's sex drives are not only stronger than women's, but much more straightforward. The sources of women's libidos, by contrast, are much harder to pin down."

Any study I've ever come across on the subject suggests generally men prioritize the physical act of sex more so than women. If there is evidence to the contrary than by all means share. Despite what you may assume I'm actually open to changing my position on this if there is good evidence that I'm wrong.

Again I am not saying that women aren't sexual creatures or that they do not value sex. Nor that culture doesn't play a part in the sexual behavior of gender. Just that with us Men sex does play a stronger role in feeling loved and emotional intimacy.

Why is this such an offensive statement ? I mean science has been able to show that not only the neurological structure but also the neurological development of both genders show noticeable differences. This being the case why is the idea that women and men prioritize sex in different ways offensive ?

Lastly, what's wrong with being a horndog, or calling someone a horndog for that matter ? Certainly there are exceptions to the rule, that's why I said for the most part. I'm not saying that the only meaningful male identity is trying to screw anything that isn't nailed down. But rather that men, as a general rule, really like sex, mostly because it's an extremely important factor in us feeling loved by and being emotionally intimate with our partner.

[el_bryanto]

5. I suppose that raises a couple of interesting questions

Guys might think that - but is it literally true?

And even if you suppose that guys need sex to be happy and fulfilled, does that imply that they are entitled to it (either in general or because they jump through a specific set of hoops they've determined entitles them to sex)?

Bryant

[el_bryanto]

7. A couple points

You mention thought crime - what punishment have I imposed on anybody other than the suggestion that they might want to analyze how their attitudes might influence how they interact with the world around them? What are the consequences of this thought crime other than my disapproval (which, as a largely powerless person, shouldn't really get in their way all that much).

I didn't bring up Eliot Rodgers - but I disagree with your assertion that he's a floating point with no connection to anything else. Like it or not he's an extreme case of a culture of entitlement, and that culture of entitlement needs to be analyzed, understood, and adjusted.

Finally, do you have any evidence that women feel just as entitled as men to sex? My own observations don't line up with that - and at any rate, they aren't raping men in any where near the numbers that men are raping women.

Bryant

[el_bryanto]

9. Lot's to unpack here

So you are saying that Anita Sarkeesian isn't an independent woman who doesn't need saving?

As for harmless fantasies - I guess the argument is that these fantasies aren't harmless - they create a culture in which women are seen as objects for males to acquire.

Do you really not understand what is meant by a culture of entitlement? And if you haven't bothered to understand that term, why don't you take some time to understand it rather than trying to participate in a discussion about it? It's really not that complicated.

Do you like women? I mean are you comfortable around them?

Bryant

[De Leonist]

13. No one is inherently entitled to sex...

Is anyone entitled to sex with another person ? Of course not. Now are adults entitled to the opportunity to seek out a consensual sexual encounter with another adult ? I think so.

Also do guys need sex to happy and fulfilled as individual ? Not necessarily

My statement was more in the context of relationships. I think plenty of "normal" men could live relatively content without much or any sex. Humans can find fulfillment in many ways. Sexual relationships only being one of them.

[el_bryanto]

14. well i was responding to the person who's posts got deleted

I'm not sure I disagree with anything here.

Bryant