All I know is that Mylie Cyrus Seems to Have Done Wonders for Pre-Teen Sexualization.

[KoKo]

(Okay..this bothered me so much I wanted to post this as a Stand Alone post....I saw this come up in "Latest Threads" and replied to post that I didn't realize was a Group. So...if you don't approve of my post out here about this...then just PM me and I will Withdraw It. But, I wondered how you all would feel about my reaction to what I saw.)

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Yesterday...Sunday Morning in Southeastern USA..I was at "Whole Foods" picking up bread and olives and a young family came in and their daughter was dressed in an outfit that seemed very "eye catching."

She was maybe 8 years old (at the most) and dressed in a spangled red net dress with a bow at cleavage (?) showing off in sequins and a high cut zig zag skirt... that I would have loved to have worn in my 20's out to a Party in NYC with Wall Street potential suitors when I lived and worked there many years ago.

It seemed inappropriate for her age...although at 14 or 15 might have been seen as provacative..but a bit of show off and fun...and nothing wrong with that for that teen age. But she was just a very little kid...and the outfit was way beyond her age and invited many onlookers kind of gawking at her.

I know there are DU'ers who have no problem with even a 7 year old running around in thongs and a fake bikini top to show off their cleavage... But....there are others of us who find the Sexualization of Young Girls under 12...not something we'd want for our daughters, grandaughters and other female family kin. So, we do have a problem with that. And we get intimidated for speaking up about the Sexualization of our youngest when people start saying...."Let them be free to chose what they wear and jail the predators."

But why would Parents want their Kids to go into Sexual Activity so Young? Does anyone have a problem with our Daughters and Grandaughters, Nieces and Others...being "Provacative at younger than 12 or 13? And...why is Mylie Cyrus so Popular?

Is there a cultural change where our young girls are now becoming sexually active at such young ages that this is our New Lifestyle? What if they become pregnant at 10, 11 or 12? How will we deal with it? How will parents cope.

Or is this normal for this time? And, I shouldn't get worried about this.

[RandySF]

1. Sounds like one of those child beauty pageant kids.

[grasswire]

2. How old is Mylie Cyrus now, anyhoo?

Yes, I do have a problem with what you describe because (1) merchandisers are simply making money off exploiting female children through commodifying age-inappropriate appearance and (2) young girls are being sent a message that they must look sexually provocative to be worthy of attention (as opposed to clean, well-groomed, nicely dressed, etc.)

[seabeyond]

3. Teens are waiting longer to have sex than they did in the recent past.

•Fewer than 2% of adolescents have had sex by the time they reach their 12th birthday. But adolescence is a time of rapid change. Only 16% of teens have had sex by age 15, compared with one-third of those aged 16, nearly half (48%) of those aged 17, 61% of 18-year-olds and 71% of 19-year-olds.[1] There is little difference by gender in the timing of first sex.

•On average, young people have sex for the first time at about age 17, [2] but they do not marry until their mid-20s.[3] This means that young adults may be at increased risk for unintended pregnancy and STIs for nearly a decade or longer.

•Teens are waiting longer to have sex than they did in the recent past. In 2006–2008, some 11% of never-married females aged 15–19 and 14% of never-married males in that age-group had had sex before age 15, compared with 19% and 21%, respectively, in 1995.[1]

http://www.guttmacher.org/pubs/FB-ATSRH.html

i figure it is the hypersexualization and the obsession that has kids putting it off until later. but no, they are not having sex earlier. i wanted to put this up. i will address the other questions later. but, i wanted these facts up

[KoKo]

7. That's an interesting report. My first Gynecologist was a fellow of Guttmacher Institute...

She was a Catholic and totally opposed to Abortion and a wonderful woman...except where I differed with her about that issue.

I would like to feel their stats are what the truth is. But, not sure if there isn't something coming up that we don't see. Their stats from Guttmacher only go to 2010. I wonder if "Sexualiztion of Young Girls" isn't increasing with the media emphasis on enticing younger and younger experimentation with sex with the provocation of Media and Mylie's Antics. Now....I realize that "Madonna was a bit OTT" for an earlier generation. But Mylie was an idol for much younger group than Madonna was NOT so much a part of when she burst on the scene...as I recall it, anyway. A friend of mine's daughter was dying to get tickets to a Mylie Cyrus appearance years ago...when she was a young girls idol and did sort of "innocent songs., appearances."

My daughter was a huge fan of "Free to Be You and Me" Marlo Thomas Era. I wouldn't have let her out of the house wearing what I saw that young girl wearing in Whole Foods. Why? I knew it would invite "undue attention." (But, that was then...and this is Now) That's why I asked...if I was overly concerned.

[seabeyond]

10. i have read other studies and it does seem as if they are a little older, just above the average of

17 yrs old and they are using protection much more than the past, so that is cool.

i had a couple nieces. one, every summer i would have to dress. we had a rule. i ok'ed the clothes. no if ands or buts. we would often have open conversations and now today, at 21, she is a responsible woman with a healthy self worth.

my other niece was raised in a very dysfunctional home. playboy calendar on the wall in the kitchen "to honor the beauty of women" as little kids are running around. thongs at ten cause we didnt want her to have panty lines. abortion at 13 and her first baby at 18. she had to have a test to figure the father.

yes. i think it matters.

now, this 25 yr old niece recognizes that her childhood was part of the problem and since having the first baby, has worked hard at addressing these issues and now, i could not be more proud at the hard work she has done, putting all the pain, sorrow and wrong, into healthy places that allow her to move forward in her life and give her two little kids the kind of foundation she did not have.

i will also tell you, that raising my boys, i got the final say on what we bought them. and some years it was slim pickings. the tshirts that either honored stupid, lazy or violent. we didnt do that in our house. we didnt watch any cartoon that was about stupid or angry either.

at a certain age, i turned disney channel off. i did not like how they portrayed pre and teens. rebelling toward parent and snarky, disrespectful, ect.... kids and i would talk and i would tell them, that is not what a teen is, that is the conditioning of what society thinks a teen ought to be.

koko, i was a believe in clear boundaries for the kids.

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

4. Kinda strikes me as child abuse.

Just like child 'beauty pageants' or those 'dance moms' type shows. Adults using their children as weird living dress-up toys and ignoring the responsibilities part of being a parent.

If kids were simply allowed to 'choose' whatever they want, a lot more of them wouldn't survive past childhood, or would end up with various chronic diseases early in life. Sure I believe in giving children more input into how they live their lives, but part of being a parent is setting boundaries to ensure your child is 'safe' both mentally and physically, and not a danger to themselves or those around them.

No boundaries? Welcome to the 'affluenza' kids. So give your kids some choices, but also teach them that sometimes limits exist for good reasons. And good gods, don't let your kids learn about sexual intimacy from tv, movies, their peers. No matter how squeamish you are about it, get in there and make sure they're getting good advice and information from you. Don't let your sons be taught by crap media that they want to be little 'players', or your daughters to be taught that sex will make them 'popular'. Teach them to respect themselves and their future partners.

[KoKo]

12. The two women who were with her seemed to be mother and daughter...and they

were dressed very "upscale"...sort of REI, nice Athletic well dressed, understated. Nothing like Mothers of those Kid Pageant types who might remind one of Paula Deen type or something. The contrast in their dress and the little girl's might have been why so many seemed to be gawking at them.

Have to agree with much of what you say in your post.

[Agschmid]

16. The stereotypes you use in your thread are bothersome to me...

I don't really think you can make the assertion that just because they appeared upscale they are not involved in pageants. Also you seem to have some fat-phobic sub context in your post, not a good think IMO.

Either way you get to do what you want, I wouldn't make judgements about other people I see in a Whole Foods and then broaden that out to societies issues...

[NYC_SKP]

5. Commercial success is dependent upon this despicable phenomenon of sexualization of young girls.

And Miley herself was both a victim and a tool of the industry, or of several industries.

And our society has lost it's way, IMO.

There was a time when community standards would have universally disallowed the dressing of 8 year olds as, well, hookers.

Interesting, I think, that Miley Cyrus, Britney Spears, and Lindsay Lohan were all Disney creations.

Like you, I'm appalled at what I see out on the streets, in magazines, TV, etc., by way of sexualizing young women and the casual attitude by many who dismiss it.

Sigh.

[ismnotwasm]

6. This has been going on for some time.

As usual, the onus of sexuality is on the female-- you don't see little boys running around in speedos.

It predates Miley, by years; she's very talented, but I assume her manager wanted he to break out of the Hanna Montana persona-- this started a while back, I believe with her "Lolita" shot on the cover of Vogue. Miley is a symptom of a problem. She's popular because she rides the edge between little girl and woman-- teddy bears, tongue, and twerking. A perfect storm of mixed signals, appealing to young boys, older men and quite frankly pedophiles.

She's very young, and I saw her on some show mocking "what about the children" --she's kind of an asshole really, but maybe she'll grow out of it.

As far as parents picking that kind of attire for their little girls-- I've seen it and it's bizarre. Girl children are not taught that they are sexual beings-- they are taught that they are sexual commodities no matter how cute mom thought the outfit was. They are aware of the eyes on them; the parts of the body those outfits emphasize even if most of them don't understand it. The blatant marketing of the female sex had grown, but there is an incredible amount of pushback on this.

I work with women mostly as a nurse, and I can tell you anecdotally this is on their minds, and supporting this over sexualization of their little girls is NOT what they're going to do. Nor are fathers for that matter.

It's a matter for worry, but it's very much something feminism is fighting against, even companies are fighting against it, because voices have been heard. Longways to go though.

[KoKo]

8. Appreciate your views and the other answers on this post...

you've all replied giving viewpoints that are helpful.

I was worried about posting here, actually. So thanks for the informative replies.

[KoKo]

11. It is sad. I rarely go to Huffington Post to follow the rest of an article posted here on DU

that I might want to read..because of the horrible Celebrity Sensationalism that Arianna has on her site. She is supposed to be for Female Rights...but Celebrity Porn infests her site...and it blares and distracts from the informative News Sight she is supposed to be promoting.

I know it doesn't bother lots of people...but, maybe it's just an age group thing that for those of us who fought for Women's Rights to see that trash posted there that brings her clicks. It just slows down my computer and I don't want to bother with the Babes, Boobs and which Celeb got a face job, is showing Baby Bump or is Abusing her Kids or on her 2nd, or 3'rd Boy Toy or whatever. It's distracting but people love it and her site is doing well as far as we know.... But, it's not just HuffPost...it's everywhere. Sort of like race to the bottom of how far into Celeb Porn by their Agents promoting them. And if I see another Kim Kardashian (who the hell is she) I just want to run.

AND this filters down to our kids who think this just MUST BE the way to seem IMPORTANT in a world where FEW of us are ever going to be Celebs or Wall Street Billionaires or Facebook Wonders.

It just bothers me....but...I've felt it bothers others much less who feel Freedom of Expression is for the Common Good because anything else is CENSORSHIP. And, I remember how I love Comic Books and in my era there were reports that Comic Books would lead a whole generation into Ruin! I read Lolita at 13... Thought it was boring after awhile...but, can't say it wasn't provocative. So...it's hard to know where to draw lines these days when much of what we all enjoyed or at least were part of when we were young might have seemed "taboo" to our parents if they knew. But...it wasn't commonly approved of so there was that excitement of rebellion.

I guess I feel that much of what we used to do as "Taboo" is now MAINSTREAM...and not sure of my reaction as to why I think some is so OTT that it's questionable as to the value of it. And sexualization of pre-teens when there's so much freedom of expression these days may lead on unintended consequences...or not.

So...there's that and why I asked.

[ismnotwasm]

13. It's a very good question

Freedom is great, but who is deciding what "freedom" means in this context? Teaching little girls that their self worth is encased in sexually desirability is as far from " freedom" as you can get.

Still, the answer IMO is education, not censorship, reasonable choices, not gendered, underpaying jobs or following a path that leads to the many forms of prostitution. It CAN be a choice, but currently is more of an gathering of a very limited options to make a living; (topless barista????) thus how much harm are we causes young girls with this over sexualization?
Or, allowing the clearly sexist and unfair gender gap to continue.

We have women entering college In greater numbers than men--which is concerning and there's a couple of great theories why, but more concerning are the women who can't afford collage at all. We are breaking into many fields previously if not forbidden, strongly discouraged, like physics, chemistry, architecture, Tech. Politics. Every one has problems with sexism. Every one. So teaching little girls about these options, letting them know they exist, encouraging them I believe will trump the Miley's of the world.

We will continue the fight, though activism, through social media, and for me to proudly voting democrat. Getting our youth educated and working.

My oldest daughter is pregnant with her first daughter and last child. She has 3 boys. She is appalled at "all the princess crap; if my daughter wants to be a princess fine-- but I'm not shoving it down her throat".

She, Being raised by a feminist Mom, I get to hear things about my oldest grandson like "he really tries not to objectify women"

[catrose]

9. I do worry about it

And I worry about how much choice parents have when they go shopping. I'm sewing for the granddaughter--I hope daughter-in-law knows she can rely on me when she's too busy to sew or shop. Clothes can be pretty without genitalia hanging out or being emphasized.

[roody]

14. I teach elementary school,

and I am so thankful that we wear uniforms. On free dress day, once a month, some of the outfits are too sexy.

[JI7]

15. i wonder how much it is parents who ar trying to impress other parents

and want to be friends with their kids .

[Agschmid]

17. I feel as if the leap from...

"she dressed like Miley Cyrus" to "what will we do when she is pregnant at 10, 11, or 12" was a big one.

I think in some ways when we see something we place our own "filters" on it, I think your filter may have sexualized this child. I'm single, I'm 29, and I'm a gay man so maybe it's me but I'd let the kid do what it wants, you aren't the parent you don't know the situation, you don't run her life.

[ismnotwasm]

18. Perhaps if we were seeing it in little boys as well as little girls

And it wasn't heteronormative, you'd see things a bit different. If a lot of children ran around as dressed as sexualized version of adults, and we saw no harm from it at all, I'd agree with you.

At any rate, Miley is a fad, she'll grow up and change styles or go stay, but to be dismissive of the situation-- which predates Miley, or someone's concern about children isn't cool.

I volunteered at a kindergarten, where a little girl often came to school dressed in an overt sexualized manner, and she had incredible behavior problems. Parents seemed alright-- they worked, but she wasn't neglected.

She had been sent signals somewhere about sexual behavior and acted out, not so much in the way of a child who is sexually abused, but one who wanted to be sexy. It was sad. She probably turned out ok, because little kids just see sparkly things or colorful things or things they think are pretty-- that's their filter.

My daughter is a pre-school teacher, and when they have dress up day, (a box of a kinds of clothes) there is one little boy who likes "pretty" things. She says he always looks at her like "are you going to say something" and she never does. She leaves the child to make his choices.

But there is something called grooming, and these girl children aren't being groomed for sexual activity as much as "here is your worth". This is reinforced by society at every step of every age of little girls and THAT's what we are trying to change.

[Agschmid]

20. Thanks for your comments.

I think your comment about grooming is very interesting, I don't have much to add to it since you said it so well.

[redqueen]

19. I tend to agree.

This outfit sounds like something the kid might have had to wear for a dance recital, and maybe her mom let her wear it out because she liked it.

The outfit itself doesn't sound sexy to me. I guess one would have to see it.

I don't like the trend of hypersexualization of young girls or even young women in the media, but sometimes I think the sexualization is more about the viewer's filter, as you said, than the outfit itself.