A self-reflection Prompted Question for members of HoF ...

[1StrongBlackMan]

In attempting to relate to most of the issues raised here, I tend to substitute (to the degree possible) the term "Black" for female/woman and "racism" for misogyny.

I recently realized I have been using what works for me in an effort to help other men understand how offensive some of our conduct/mind-set can be. (For example: http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=4514920)

But it dawned on me today ... what I've been doing, could be seen as ignorant (comparing/equating my experience with that of another, where it might be completely inappropriate); or distracting, as it's not about me; or, just plain offensive ... I know how annoyed I get when I read how someone's experience of being followed around in a store because of their long hair and multiple tattoos and piercings and their, "I steal for a living" tee-shirt, is exactly like/equal to my being followed around the store for Shopping While Black.

(Oops, there I go again. ).

[seabeyond]

1. Most of us will often do the same. The other day I thought, I hope I am not offending AA community

But... There are such clear cut similarities. So when I saw you do it today, I was more relieved then anything. Thanks for asking though cause I was gonna.

[sufrommich]

2. I have yet to read any post you've written

and thought it was anything close to ignorant,distracting,inappropriate,or condescending. When I read your posts I know I'm about to see affirmation that most men are descent,mature and unafraid and for that I thank you.

[MadrasT]

3. I don't find it to be arrogant or offensive.

You make comparisons based on your experience that I want to make... but feel like I can't make myself (as a white person). I am afraid of offending AA and other black people.*

I appreciate your voice.


*Because what the fuck does my white ass actually know about racism?

[1StrongBlackMan]

7. I'm repeating myself; but ...

I encourage you to wade into discussions, bearing in mind your experience of being the "other." Identify yourself as an "other" and use your experience of being discounted as a woman (the other) to guide your discussion/comment(s)/question(s).

Again, I refer to Melissa Harris-Perry's Role Declaration regarding her participation in discussions of Gay issues:

"In discussions of race, as a Black person, my role is to contribute my experience. In discussions of gender, as a woman, my role is to contribute my experience. In discussions of Gay issues, as a non-Gay person, my role is to shut my mouth and listen, and ask clarifying questions so that I may carry their message to my non-Gay friends." (Paraphrased)

[ismnotwasm]

4. I follow a fairly militant bi-sexual black man on FB.

I love his insights, but I'm hesitant to respond other than a 'like' because I don't have the shared experience. Most of his followers are black.


But, as I'm sure you know, being black seems to be the gold standard when talking about oppression. So you have the experience, and to me, the fact the you initiate a discussion about commonality in these situations can be a gift.

[1StrongBlackMan]

6. I encourage you to wade in ...

to the face-book thing, identifying yourself as an "other" and using your experience of being discounted as a woman (the other) to guide your discussion/comment(s)/question(s).

Again, I refer to Melissa Harris-Perry's Role Declaration regarding her participation in discussions of Gay issues:

"In discussions of race, as a Black person, my role is to contribute my experience. In discussions of gender, as a woman, my role is to contribute my experience. In discussions of Gay issues, as a non-Gay person, my role is to shut my mouth and listen, and ask clarifying questions so that I may carry their message to my non-Gay friends." (Paraphrased)

[ismnotwasm]

11. I think he'd be pretty open to it

But I do definitely 'check my privilege" I'll give it a shot thanks!

[Squinch]

5. I am often very grateful to see your posts, and I hope you keep doing what you are doing.

[1StrongBlackMan]

9. LOL ...

Between my "defense of EVERYTHING President Obama and Democrats do", my willingness to call out racism whenever/wherever I see it, and my learning to recognize and reject misogyny, I don't think many see what I write ... I think the ignore function prevents it.

But that said, I am proud to "defend" President Obama and Democrats ... I am proud to call out racism ... and I am proud to reject misogyny.

[hlthe2b]

8. We all experience life through our own prisms, but there are overlaps that create understanding...

Some experiences have a lot more commonality than might be apparent at first glance and I thought your example above was very perceptive... I just wish more men of DUers had read it and taken its message.

[1StrongBlackMan]

10. I suspect ...

the Ignore function will prevent it!

[JustAnotherGen]

12. Not offended

But I'm a black woman. And you made a solid point on that thread. I read it when it had just a few posts and then decided not to read it again . . . Glad you posted this so I could see the point you made.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

13. Isn't that the beginning of understanding? To relate something that is happening in one's life

to the other person's life. Isn't that where empathy comes from?

[mercuryblues]

14. I like to ask

people if they trust an AA when they say something is offensive to them, why can't they have the same level of trust when women tell you the same thing?

[1StrongBlackMan]

15. I think that just the U.S. history of race relations ...

which cuts across gender, makes it (as someone above coined it) the "golden standard of oppression" that everyone/most recognize. Though, personally, I believe gender, or rather, patriarchy, is a bigger, more insidious, issue ... because it, too, cuts across race; but is just now (in the 20th/21st century) being given voice.

The largest barrier being from Day 1, people at an intuitive level knew and accepted that racism was/is wrong, and they were/are very few folks affected by racism, that accepted it ... not so much with gender/patriarchy issues. The masses see gender/patriarchy issues as "it just is the way it is", and patriarchy "enjoys" a significant amount of ambivalence, if not support, among women.

I strongly believe that the dynamics related to gender/patriarchy issues will change/is changing, just as it did with race issues, as the discussions lead folks, male and female, to see patriarchy as another form of oppression.

But that said ... as DU will bear witness, there are a segment of liberals that DO NOT believe Black folks when we say something is offensive.

[redqueen]

16. You are so on point.

Just had to say that.

[ismnotwasm]

17. It's like this-- along with gender

[Tuesday Afternoon]

18. That last line =

But that said ... as DU will bear witness, there are a segment of liberals that DO NOT believe Black folks when we say something is offensive.

now, watch this

But that said ... as DU will bear witness, there are a segment of liberals that DO NOT believe Black folks women when we say something is offensive.

so much cross over in racism and sexism.

[1StrongBlackMan]

19. Simply put ...

... as DU will bear witness, there are a segment of liberals that DO NOT wish to entertain, let alone give up, their privilege.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

20. and this is where there is a disconnect for me

... there are a segment of liberals ...

liberals in that context is like an oxymoron for me.


It just does not add up/ make sense.

It is NOT liberal.

[1StrongBlackMan]

21. Well ...

Last edited Tue Feb 18, 2014, 03:43 PM - Edit history (1)

I, too, am at a loss ... the primary "offenders" blanch at being called Democrats ... they claim the liberal/progressive label ... while sounding a lot like (paul) libertarians. After all on DU, combatting misogyny/patriarchy is clearly a far less a "progressive" issue, than combatting the NSA, or being critical of this President and Democrats ... check the rec count.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

22. these next two years are going to be -very -interesting in our country

and on DU3.

and yes, I think some people have conflated liberal with libertarian.

[ismnotwasm]

23. I've noticed this

It's difficult to get into a political discussion at times. I myself have strong socialist beliefs, but I vote a straight Democratic ticket. True, living in the Northwest makes this a little easier. My rep is one of the last Liberal Lions--Jim Mcdermott. But is see prolific posters starting discussions NOT not designed to support the Democratic Party. I won't even start on some of the half truth character assassination criticism of President Obama. Is he perfect? No. Would I vote for him again? Hell yes.

Feminism *is* a progressive platform. The threads that get the most attention always have to do with a woman's sexuality, rather than blatant inequities. Or you get strange arguments about women's rights that sound very right leaning libertarian