"It is easier to build strong children than to repair broken men."

[LanternWaste]

"It is easier to build strong children than to repair broken men."

Frederick Douglass wrote that in 1855 in reference to a series of dialogs he had with white slave-owners who simply did not see in any way that slavery was a moral and absolute wrong.

Not that they felt badly about it and covered up the guilt with justifications, but that these slave-owners simply did not see the inherent evil of slavery. They were broken men who simply could not comprehend that what they were doing was wicked and damnable, any more than a person blind since birth can tell the difference between light and darkness.

After reading Douglass' speech, I'm beginning to re-evaluate my opinions of those who deny rape-culture (and yes angry lurkers, there is precise and academic definition of that) , those who see dating as a "game", and those who rationalize the inequalities females receive at the hand of males.

My re-evaluation leads me to believe that these poor saps are not simply denying it exists despite their actual knowledge that it does. They simply cannot see it. They are blind to it, and nothing short of a dramatic personal or emotional trauma can pull the veil back.

They are "broken men"... and I feel more pity for them than I do frustration because of them, because they are broken, have no idea they are broken, and hence, can not be fixed.



Idle thoughts on a Tuesday night.

[defacto7]

1. Frederick Douglass was wise.

The sad thing is that many of the "broken men" these days are broken young men. We have a long road.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

2. seems to me there is a problem because these Broken men

are raising children.

Sometimes, I think that is what The Bible meant when it spoke to The Sins of The Fathers.

Exodus 34: 7 ESV
Keeping steadfast love for thousands, forgiving iniquity and transgression and sin, but who will by no means clear the guilty, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children and the children's children, to the third and the fourth generation.”

The vicious, never-ending cycle.

Broken people raising broken children who then go on to break other people.

[BainsBane]

3. I have trouble believing they don't see it

Over the past week or so, we have seen a stunning demonstration of rape culture play out in front of us in the Dylan Farrow case. When Roguevalley linked to the court record, many of Woody Allen's most ardent defenders refused to read it. Facts and evidence were irrelevant. What mattered was defending Allen, and they used every distraction and side issue to accomplish that goal. One went so far as to say "Regardless of what happened, Dylan is the abuser now."


A correction to your OP: It is not simply men. Women also engage in the exact same behavior. It is a function of character and compassion rather than gender.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

4. It is a function of character and compassion rather than gender. yes.

[redqueen]

6. "Regardless of what happened, Dylan is the abuser now." Who could say something like that?

Just when you think you've seen the most vile, disgusting thing here ever, someone goes and lowers the bar.

Anyway, I agree with you. Their blindness is willful blindness.

That line was written in a time when slavery was still widely practiced. If we were talking about men *and women* propagating misogyny in the days before women were still considered property, this quote would be analogous. Now, though, no.

[BainsBane]

8. Here

I don't want to misrepresent her words, so read it yourself. Be sure to read the follow ups in the subthread.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=4468935

[redqueen]

9. Ugh, sick.

Just beyond sick. Words fail.

I couldn't see their post before, or the responses. I wisely have that individual on ignore. I didn't even read the entire vomit-inducing post. A few short paragraphs were much more than enough.

[BainsBane]

10. Days later, I remain stunned

That anyone is capable of saying such a thing.

[seabeyond]

11. saying such a thing, defending such a thing, blame a couple people regardless the #

that calls her out, pointing the finger and blaming the people that call it out, and having the "buddies" that love to hate us tell her what a good post it is.

ya...

interesting that.

[redqueen]

12. Completely transparent. nt

[redqueen]

13. It is incredible.

I'm gonna post a similar response to one I put another thread here because imo it bears repeating. Just in case anyone else reading this is at all confused about why Dylan spoke up, and why it is so important that she did.


The reason Dylan wrote the letter now is because seeing that piece of shit honored brought all of it back. It had her curled in a ball in tears. This is an experience most survivors know well.

She decided to speak out, and openly ask all those who still treat this unrepentant asshole with adulation just how they'd feel if he was caught with his face in their daughter's lap. If it was their daughter he was in therapy over, discussing his inappropriate obsession with her. If it was their daughter who told her doctor that he had molested her.

These assholes all know of his body of work. They know that incest and pedophilia are common themes in his movies and they won't reconsider their admiration for the POS because they, like so many others, just DO. NOT. FUCKING. CARE.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

14. No, redqueen. It is Not that they Don't care, it is that they see Nothing Wrong with it.

Last edited Thu Feb 13, 2014, 09:12 AM - Edit history (2)

They look and, they like and, they wish it was them. They admire Woody and, live vicariously through him and his movies.

The past few days on DU, have been really hard for me.

I just realized a trigger that I had "forgotten". glossed over. downplayed the experience. normalized it.(REPRESSED IT)

I understand now why there is a certain DUer that I just can not stomach.

This DUer is a trigger for what happened to me years ago.

I have no choice but, to put this DUer and their main cohorts on Ignore.

For my own mental health.

Maybe, in time, I can process this but, for right now.

I just can not deal with it anymore.

The physical reaction. The knot in my stomach.

[redqueen]

15. Ugh, goddess.... I hope that's not true.

That is so very much worse.

Having the worst of the ugliness hidden makes DU much easier to spend time on.


I hope that knot goes away soon. (hug)

[seabeyond]

18. and that is how it should be redq. interesting where you and tues are going.

i see that, and get that. i support and expect that from others. and i have no need to do that, either. i thought a bit the last week, and nope. they do not bother me, or nada.

so interesting. i hear you women on this. i know both of you just did not use ignore. but, i can see why at this point you do. and maybe i will.... but now, meh.

thanks for conversation. i am working this shit out myself.

the thing. some really really literally hate me. lol. not many, just some.

a lot do not like me, and that is fine. abrasive personality, and i am ok with it. cause i have some, i have connected with, and i value so so so much, that that, hands down wins, and consumes.

a lot of people to laugh with. and enjoy. has been an interesting couple days.

[redqueen]

20. Oh yeah, I know how much hostility some on here harbor for you.

Their posts full of personal attacks have been hidden sometimes, but other times not. That says a lot.

[seabeyond]

16. They look and, they like and, they wish it was them.

Last edited Wed Feb 12, 2014, 03:01 PM - Edit history (1)

i think so too, and gonna go back to hear what you say.

i knooooooooow we are gonna get

they are analyzing, they are analyzing.... lol. and not see any difference with this, than calling women who speak out on womens issues, emotionally damaged. you get this, right? i know this so well, that i even am saying it loud, here and now, ya... i see. and then i see.

the interesting thing is how i saw that immediately. stated my opposition to the usage, pondering. yet listening to you women. and i too need to understand where this is coming from for my health and interaction on du.

so, i listen, and now gonna keep reading your post.

[seabeyond]

17. step further, i think it is a right. i think with the net, in so many ways,

it allows the perception of it is a right. and i think much of media, religion, congress floor and heads of states are reinforcing, feeding and confirming mens right to feel this entitlement to men. backlash.

that in a perfect storm, allow the men to rethink this.... and say, yup.

you know, to have equality in marriage, is to have less sex, after all.

interesting.

lol.

you women may have me think and going on and on. i better stop.

[wryter2000]

7. Agreed on all counts

I was also going to mention women participate in blaming the victim.

[seabeyond]

5. and i am thinking about this and the replies. interesting.

comes awfullly close to some of these very men labeling us "damaged" ergo our voice is silenced.

i am going to have to think about this.

i surely believe we open our childrens eyes to the realities in our world, allowing them at least a chance to avoid the conditioning's of society and media.

i like the saying. but, i do not think these people are broken. gonna think a bit though.

[seabeyond]

19. see what you started lantern, ..... ? thank you. tis fun. nt

[redqueen]

21. What sea said...

Thanks for an interesting discussion, LW.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

22. Rec-ing this because:

They are "broken men"... and I feel more pity for them than I do frustration because of them, because they are broken, have no idea they are broken, and hence, can not be fixed.

yes.

pity.

I have to be careful with that one because sometimes for me contempt follows closely beside pity.

Also, I am aware of how sociopaths use pity in order to play the victim ultimately, to their own end.

[seabeyond]

23. i do not agree.

i really do not see people as broken and i really do see it as choices. they may be making choices that fuck up their life, but somewhere in the mix is a reward and why they choose that path, regardless how fucked up it may appear to the people on the outside. and this is not gender specific. it s human behavior.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

25. hmmm ... maybe semantics at work here.

bones can be broken and healed.

human spirit can be "broken" in the same sense. low self esteem, depression, etc.

ergo. spirit can be healed.

it is an ongoing process depending on the individual's journey.

This is NOT gender specific at all.

[seabeyond]

27. words matter to me, hence me clarifying on that.

and spirit is always cool. the healing is simply connecting to spirit. it is when we are not connected our lives getting muddy. and oh boy... will people have a field day with this conversation, lol.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

28. people have a field day with this conversation,

fuck 'em if they can't take a joke.

so tired of the small minded crap on here.

so tired of being pigeonholed/boxed in.

must act a certain way.

should I delete this?

self censoring crap.

ugh.

[seabeyond]

30. exactly. and no....

of course i am not talking about deleting. if i didnt want to put something out, i simply would not type it on a message board. i was laughing, that is all. a chuckle.

some will hear the song and rock to it, and others will be in a muddle. that has always worked for me.

[seabeyond]

24. years ago i was making choices that people could easily look at me with pity.

i can even remember having this conversation with myself. and what they saw as making bad decisions (they were) and pity toward me.... i was doing exactly what i wanted to do at that time. and when done with that part of my journey i moved on. learned so so so much during that time also.

i do not give people pity. who am i to give someone pity, when they are saying, who are you to pity me. i do not even like the word pity

[Tuesday Afternoon]

26. because You are AWARE< sea.

yes. Pity is a very dangerous word. it gives me chills,

pity, NO. Empathy, yes.

difference.

[seabeyond]

29. yes. i can do empathy. empathy is my action, not giving to another.

and that would be the very essence of the reason i do not like things like pity, broken person, damaged person. who am i to give shit to another. that is what really gets me to calling shit like this out.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

31. you calling me out, sea? -

I am not understanding.

that you don't like something does not mean that it does not exist.

[seabeyond]

32. lol... never darlin' just playing in the exploration of...

i am saying... empathy is something i do. i can do that. stuff where we are trying to give to others, i cannot do. like pity as in the person is a pitiful person. that is what i do not do.

self empowerment. individually we all get to own our own power to be who we are and what we want to create. it is not my job, nor do i want to do another person. i am busy with me. so, i take care of me, and leave others to do themselves. it does not mean i cannot address, discuss and think about behaviors... explore thought, it just means i cannot give to another. which we cant. if we do, it is only cause someone allowed and took.

for example. being called emotionally damaged. this is why i always, always say no. no one gets to create me as that. i verbally, out loud reject it. yet, some people might say, ya... and then they have allowed another to define them. no one can define us, but, we can allow others to define us.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

34. their perception of you ...

is that you are damaged goods ...

yes. however.

you might be a mirror and it is their own reflection they are seeing. of their damaged self.

I understand that.

but to say that no one has ever been damaged.

there is a difference.

clarification.

[seabeyond]

36. it certainly is not my place to say if another has or not, though. nt

[Tuesday Afternoon]

39. agreed on this. you can be the mirror but, they can still be blind.

[seabeyond]

33. am tellng you... this conversation s all n ruiz four agreement.

that book keeps coming back into my life with different conversations i have been having with different people. have you read?

[Tuesday Afternoon]

35. thanks for reminding me. No, I have not read.

Keep reminding me.

life gets in the way, yanno.

lol

[seabeyond]

37. since i am all that in packaging and using a post office now....

pm me your address and i will mail it, a gift....

[seabeyond]

38. ha. my i button is getting stuck. now what do i do. lol. nt

[Tuesday Afternoon]

40. oh woman.

the irony of that.

hilarious.

really laughing over here at that.

hysterical.

[seabeyond]

41. iiiiiii thought so, too. lol. nt