Paul Dini: Superhero cartoon execs don't want largely female audiences

[redqueen]

In an interview with Kevin Smith, writer and television producer Paul Dini complained about a worrying trend he sees in television animation and superhero shows in particular: executives spurning female viewers because they believe girls and women don't buy the shows' toys.

Vi at agelfeygelach transcribed part of Dini's conversation with Smith on the Fat Man on Batman podcast, during which he talks about the cancellation of Young Justice, Green Lantern: The Animated Series, and Tower Prep. He explains that studios are looking to capture younger male viewers, "boys who are into goofy humor, goofy random humor," and that they aren't interested in the older Young Justice audience.

The key quotes come when Dini starts talking about the problems that he says executives perceive with female viewers (emphasis is Vi's):

...

SMITH: "So you can sell them T-shirts if they don't—A: I disagree, I think girls buy toys as well, I mean not as many as f***ing boys do, but, B: sell them something else, man! Don't be lazy and be like, 'well I can't sell a girl a toy.' Sell 'em a T-shirt, man, sell them f***ing umbrella with the f***ing character on it, something like that. But if it's not a toy, there's something else you could sell 'em! Like, just because you can't figure out your job, don't kill chances of, like, something that's gonna reach an audi—that's just so self-defeating, when people go, like… these are the same fuckers who go, like, 'Oh, girls don't read comics, girls aren't into comics.' It's all self-fulfilling prophecies. They just make it that way, by going like, 'I can't sell 'em a toy, what's the point?'

DINI: "That's the thing, you know I hate being Mr. Sour Grapes here, but I'll just lay it on the line: that's the thing that got us cancelled on Tower Prep, honest-to-God was, like, 'we need boys, but we need girls right there, right one step behind the boys'—this is the network talking—'one step behind the boys, not as smart as the boys, not as interesting as the boys, but right there.' And then we began writing stories that got into the two girls' back stories, and they were really interesting. And suddenly we had families and girls watching, and girls really became a big part of our audience, in sort of like they picked up that Harry Potter type of serialized way, which is what The Batman and (indistinct)'s really gonna kill. But, the Cartoon Network was saying, 'F***, no, we want the boys' action, it's boys' action, this goofy boy humor we've gotta get that in there. And we can't—' and I'd say, but look at the numbers, we've got parents watching, with the families, and then when you break it down—'Yeah, but the—so many—we've got too many girls. We need more boys.'"

SMITH: "That's heart-breaking."

DINI: "And then that's why they cancelled us, and they put on a show called Level Up, which is, you know, goofy nerds fighting CG monsters. It's like, 'We don't want the girls because the girls won't buy toys.' We had a whole… we had a whole, a merchandise line for Tower Prep that they s***canned before it ever got off the launching pad, because it's like, 'Boys, boys, boys. Boys buy the little spinny tops, they but the action figures, girls buy princesses, we're not selling princesses.'"

The Toy Industry Association has annual sales data up on its website, although I don't see a spot where it breaks down sales data by gender. One thing that is interesting is that, in 2012, action figures and roleplaying toys accounted for $1.39B in sales, while dolls, which are typically aimed at girls, accounted for $2.69B in sales.

http://io9.com/paul-dini-superhero-cartoon-execs-dont-want-largely-f-1483758317

[Adenoid_Hynkel]

1. Dini's a good guy, and one of the ones who jumped ship at DC after the reboot

which has been crawling with misogyny from the likes of the rightwing but Scott Lobdell, the hack Jim Lee and the Image comics crew.

[redqueen]

4. Yep, I've always liked his stuff. nt

[DetlefK]

2. This sound svery republican to me. Wait, hear me out.

It boils down to the attitude: "If you don't support the main demographic group at the expense of other demographic groups, you are hurting the main demographic group."

If you don't allow fundamentalists to oppress groups of their choosing, you are oppressing those fundamentalists.
- religion-based discrimination ("happy holidays&quot
- sexuality-based discrimination (gay marriage)
- gender-based discrimination (abortion)
- race-based discrimination
- wealth-based discrimination
- Teabaggers whining that they don't get a compromise where they don't give up anything and the other side gives up everything.

[Blue_Adept]

3. Pisses me off

I've been reading comics since the late 70's.

I've got two girls, 11 and 13, and they've been surrounded by my pop culture stuff since day one. Anime, movies, comics, etc.

They love these shows. And there are plenty of things they'd like to have from the shows, posters, books, etc. But not "toys"

Frankly, as a father and as someone who had a ton of toys as a kid growing up in the Star Wars, Transformers & GI Joe generation, I can't imagine how any parent really buys toys anymore for boys.

Freaking. Expensive. Beyond words really when a single action figure is between 8-15$ each. EACH. Times change, prices go up, but as a fan of so many of these things myself, I walk the aisles in toy stores and the like and I see neat things, but the prices as an adult freak me out.

But like Dini said, self-fulfilling prophecy to be sure. At least I have plenty of other neat avenues to direct the kids as they get older with fiction and certain live action TV series and of course the movies, all where merchandise isn't as huge a factor in what gets made.

[ismnotwasm]

5. I think this will change

Geek Girl, culture is a real thing and is growing. The fact that this conversation even exists, is a big step forward from even ten yeas ago