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Behind the Aegis

(54,828 posts)
Sat Feb 5, 2022, 05:02 PM Feb 2022

(Jewish Group)Are Jews white? Is Whoopi Goldberg Jewish? 'The View' Holocaust controversy, explained

She may not have meant to, but this week Whoopi Goldberg waded into a charged discourse that has polarized the Jewish community — and those who seek to discriminate against them — for centuries.

The controversy began brewing on “The View,” the daytime talk show she co-hosts, during a discussion Monday over the recent controversy over a Tennessee school board’s decision to ban “Maus,” the iconic graphic memoir about the Holocaust. The genocide was “not about race,” she said, it was instead about “man’s inhumanity to man.” And it involved “two white groups of people.”

The comments immediately went viral and struck a nerve, leading to what Goldberg described as a deluge of accusations of antisemitism and Holocaust denial, and criticism from groups like the Anti-Defamation League.

Despite multiple apologies, the storm reached a climax on Tuesday night when ABC decided to suspend Goldberg from “The View” for two weeks “to take time to reflect and learn about the impact of her comments,” in the words of ABC News President Kim Godwin. Jews across the political spectrum, included many who objected to her original remarks, criticized the decision to suspend her.

more...

Comedian David Baddeil describes it best as Jews are Schrödinger's whites.




Also, if you can READ his book, Jews Don’t Count!! Seriously, read it!
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elleng

(135,796 posts)
1. Right, 'a charged discourse that has polarized the Jewish community
Sat Feb 5, 2022, 05:06 PM
Feb 2022

— and those who seek to discriminate against them — for centuries.'

Srkdqltr

(7,612 posts)
4. I hope I say this right ...I thought Whoopie Goldberg was technically right. To me Jewish
Sat Feb 5, 2022, 05:38 PM
Feb 2022

Is a religion/lifestyle not a race. My thoughts are that detractors call Jewish a race so they can lump them all together. Some Jews are European some are North African and from a lot of other areas of the world.
The Jewish people in Europe at the time were white European. Of course if there had been a large African population Hitler would have gone after them also, and probably did.
What am I not reading into her remarks?

MyMission

(1,999 posts)
7. Like light skinned Blacks, we Jews can "pass" for white
Sun Feb 6, 2022, 01:11 PM
Feb 2022

But we aren't white. Some Jews consider themselves white, while others understand they are only passing (in a white Christian society). Both Blacks and Jews were banned from many country clubs and hotels until the civil rights movement took hold in the 1960's. We Jews changed our names to pass better and not stand out. In black US history, there are many who passed for white in order to improve the opportunities for themselves and their families.

We Jews are a people, a tribe, and many of us follow religious practices or traditions in some way, whether it's Passover Seder, high holiday visits, Chanukkah gifts, attending or having bar or bat mitzvahs, Jewish weddings or funerals. Many identify as culturally Jewish, some deny or ignore or are uninvolved in any Jewish aspect.

The history of our people involves persecution over thousands of years. We are accepted into a society/culture/country, and then rejected, scapegoated, enslaved, expelled, exterminated. Over thousands of years.

At the present time, our DNA can be tested and our Jewishness confirmed, with the exception of Jews by choice. I find it fascinating and also scary, aware that they can identify Jewish DNA which they (christo-facists?) can use to expell or exterminate us.

I don't generally see the world in terms of black or white, I see shades of gray and different hues.
Whoopie seems to see this as black and white. If you look white, you must be white. But I bet she knows a lot of lightskinned "blacks" who look white, but identify as black.

When asked for my race on census and other forms, I check "other" and write in Human.
Any form of prejudice, racism can be minimized to say it's only "man's inhumanity to man"
It's more than that.

Srkdqltr

(7,612 posts)
8. Ok I have seen where certain Jews can be seen in DNA. I never understood how that worked.
Sun Feb 6, 2022, 01:40 PM
Feb 2022

I thought they followed the paper trail rather than the real DNA. I don't know a lot about how race is shown through DNA. I'm interested to learn. There is so much to learn about how race works in the human genome. There is so much to learn about race. For instance, how much black DNA makes one black? I know the old fashioned thought a drop of black is black when people didn't know better just wanted to use race to hate.

Behind the Aegis

(54,828 posts)
9. A couple of things.
Sun Feb 6, 2022, 04:48 PM
Feb 2022

I see one person has answered quite well, so I will try not to repeat too much.

Whoopi was wrong in that she was applying a modern standard definition of racism to Nazi Germany and that was ahistorical. Whether she agrees with their standard or not is hardly the point. She further complicated the situation when she "downgraded" the Holocaust as basically "white on white" crime. It was dismissive and, frankly, disgustingly callous. The Nazis desperately tried to apply scientific methods to define who was and wasn't a Jew. The method ended up being a pseudo-scientific mess. Interestingly, they also used the American-inspired principles of the "one drop rule" that was used against Black people in this country, as well as "science" from the eugenics movement.

As the author in the clip I provided states, Jews are often "Schrödinger's whites". We are "white" depending on who the speaker is, not how we necessarily see ourselves. Members of the neo-Nazis and Black Muslims of the Nation of Islam do not see Jews as white in any traditional sense, seeing us as interlopers who "appear" white, thus making us even more dangerous to the collapse of white culture and society (neo-Nazis) and the true masters of the White Devils (Nation of Islam). The left is another story all together. They often see Jews as only white, not real minorities, and not worthy of protection, understanding, and deem us as "oppressors" as a single, unified group. This is an anti-Semitism that many a person on the left IGNORES, at best, or participates in, at worst.

Jews, of course, come in a variety of colors and shades. We are what is known as an ethno-religious group, and that is where LOTS of confusion arises. First, there is conflation of race and ethnicity. Second, there is the conflation of ethnicity and religion and political boundaries (Israel). The rabbi from New York who helped in the Texas synagogue situation is an Asian-American woman and a Jew. Tiffiani Haddish, a Black comedienne, is also Jewish. There are communities of Jews all over the world and have been there for centuries, such as Ethiopia, India, and China. All Jews. All different "races" and ethnic backgrounds. Even with information like this, people still fail to realize that the Jews who look white were and are still treated as if we are NOT white. Before WWII, immigration was based on numbers of people coming from different places and could be limited once a quota was met. Jews, hailing from all over Easten Europe, were not counted as Poles, Hungarians, Romanians, Russians, etc. in many cases, they were labeled "Jews" or, on some censuses, "Hebrews". This is tied closely to the canard that Jews are not loyal to their country of origin, birth, or where they reside, we are always seen as the outsider!

Simply, a Jew can be ethnically Jewish, but not religious. A Jew can be religiously Jewish, but not ethnically. Or, a Jew, can be both ethnically and religiously Jewish. From my own immediate family, we can be divided into all of the three versions.

Whether you or I, or Whoopi, in this instance, see white-appearing Jews as a different race is irrelevant when discussing what the Nazis thought. They saw us as a different race, and if you look at some literature, they didn't even consider us human. So, to claim the Holocaust was not a racist endeavor is wrong.

keithbvadu2

(39,927 posts)
5. A super right winger said he would be proud if his child married a Jew.
Sat Feb 5, 2022, 06:39 PM
Feb 2022

A super right winger said he would be proud if his child married a Jew.

He is so severe that he considers dark-skinned people to be 'mud people'.

I asked him if he would be proud if his child married a dark-skinned Ethiopian Jew.

He refused to answer.

Apparently it is not the Jewish religion that he respects.

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