Chamarro vs Dignity Health -catholic interference in the US HealthCare system.

[AtheistCrusader]

https://www.latimes.com/business/hiltzik/la-fi-hiltzik-dignity-ucsf-catholic-healthcare-20190419-story.html
https://www.aclunc.org/our-work/legal-docket/chamorro-v-dignity-health-religious-refusals

This case started a couple years ago, but litigation is beginning now.


THIS is how the RCC plans to get around Roe vs Wade in case overturn is impossible. Can't get services they don't offer. So the plan is simple; acquire all health care practices, or joint operation agreements, or joint billing systems, and simply refuse to offer the service.

[guillaumeb]

1. I have also posted about this before.

In many areas, there are no public hospitals.

[Act_of_Reparation]

3. There are barely any public hospitals anywhere.

But continue. I look forward to how you will next demonstrate your unfamiliarity with the healthcare system.

[guillaumeb]

5. Your contribution to dialogue? eom

[Act_of_Reparation]

6. Your failure to recognize instruction is an ongoing issue.

[trotsky]

4. So the people who live in those areas are just fucked, then?

And will be forced to abide by Catholic rules when it comes to their healthcare options?

[guillaumeb]

8. The alternative is to open public hospitals. eom

[trotsky]

9. Wow, such compassion and empathy for the people who are denied their medical choices.

You are truly an amazing Christian, g.

[guillaumeb]

10. You DO recognize that what I wrote is the obvious answer, correct?

On the other hand, you are consistent in your tactics in support of your narrative.

[trotsky]

11. No, it's not the obvious answer. And fuck your narrative bullshit. Knock it the fuck off already.

The obvious answer is that churches should not be able to use their religious dogma to deny healthcare options to others.

When the pregnant woman comes to the door bleeding and in danger of dying unless she's given an abortion, you can bravely stand up and tell her that she should go build her own hospital. You'll be a hero, guillaumeb. The hero the poor persecuted Christian majority needs. Fuck me.

[guillaumeb]

12. Yes, the narrative meme.

And of course your own narratives?

[trotsky]

13. I said fuck your narrative bullshit.

Your position on this is dripping with religious privilege and shows absolutely ZERO compassion for those who need treatment that goes against the RCC's dogma.

I fully understand, therefore, why you insist on trying to talk about "narratives" instead of defending that.

[guillaumeb]

15. Eloquence.

I am in awe.

[trotsky]

17. You get exactly the replies you have earned.

You dehumanize and smear groups of people by calling them "a choir" that's in "harmony". You imply they aren't thinking for themselves by claiming they mindlessly follow a fictional "11th commandment."

You spread hatred and discord and anger.

You get exactly the replies you have earned.

[guillaumeb]

18. More framing.

And more revelation of what you see as dialogue, and how you see the Religion Group.

Do you think no one outside of the small group notices?

[trotsky]

21. You've painted the awful picture yourself.

Don't blame the people who simply put a frame around it to credit you properly.

And I have no idea who notices or cares. I'm not doing this for an audience, like you claim to be.

[guillaumeb]

22. Self awareness is critical to an observer.

And your responses illustrate that.

[trotsky]

23. Which is why many people frame your arguments properly, to help you become more self-aware.

Good luck with that.

[guillaumeb]

26. As I expected. eom

[trotsky]

30. Good.

Perhaps you're finally starting on that journey to self-awareness. I'm rooting for you.

[Act_of_Reparation]

14. No, you wrote the obvious ideal situation.

We don't have public hospitals, and we're not going to get them any time soon. In the meantime, Catholic hospitals could be required to, you know, do their fucking jobs.

[guillaumeb]

16. We do have public hospitals.

Many in fact.

[Act_of_Reparation]

19. Less than 1/3 of them.

Not everyone has the resources to go shopping for a hospital. Not everyone has the resources to travel long distances to get treatment there. Not everyone has the luxury of waiting for a public hospital to be built near them.

We do have the luxury of setting terms for religious hospitals that receive public funding (like, you know, pretty much all of them).

[guillaumeb]

20. Very true.

And we have the rich, and big business, both paying the lowest taxes in 75 years.

So given that, it is obvious that the political will is lacking to fix the problem.

[trotsky]

24. Even IF we had the political will, building a hospital takes time.

There are women who need reproductive care NOW.

What do you tell them?

[guillaumeb]

27. What do you tell them?

This situation did not arise overnight.

[trotsky]

31. I tell them the RCC hurt them overnight. Because in most cases, it did.

The RCC takes over a hospital, and literally overnight they change policy.

WHAT DO YOU TELL THOSE WOMEN, GUILLAUMEB?

The RCC created the crisis by ceasing services that the hospital previously provided.

WHAT DO YOU TELL THOSE WOMEN, GUILLAUMEB?

[MineralMan]

25. No, the alternative is to remove the privilege from religion-owned hospitals.

No religion should be able to dictate what healthcare they will offer. That is obscene, especially if a church-owned hospital is the only one available.

Pass laws. If the church can't follow them, let the church get out of the hospital business altogether. That would be my suggestion to solve the problem in any case. Provide everyone with legal healthcare or you may not own a hospital. Period.

The Roman Catholic Church should not be allowed to dictate what health care is delivered in an area. Not a chance.

A hospital is not a church. The RCC should limit its restrictions on healthcare services to its religious institutions, not hospitals that are open to the public.

Feh!

[guillaumeb]

28. If most hospitals are owned by various religious orders,

that indicates that the private sector has failed to build public hospitals.

[MineralMan]

29. No, it doesnt.

Bye.

[edhopper]

32. What a horrific answer

you don't condemn the Catholic Hospitals for their denial of basic health care to people.

And then you say the answer is a politically questionable solution that would be years away, if at all.

Some of these areas are in States that would not even allow the expansion of Medicaid.

How many women's deaths do you think acceptable while your "solution" comes about?

in case you were wondering what the answer is , religion exemptions to health services can't be allowed.

[AtheistCrusader]

7. But everywhere there are states. States have laws.

[MineralMan]

2. They seek total control. If they can't get it one way, they'll try another way.

When I was just a lad, back in the early 1960s, the Catholic Church had bullied California legislatures into making contraceptives virtually illegal to sell for contraceptive purposes. Every package containing a condom was labeled:

FOR THE PREVENTION OF DISEASE ONLY!

They could only be sold by pharmacists and only to people over the age of 21.

Finally, a couple of years after I got out of high school, those laws went away, the birth control pill became available, and young people were freed from panic over an unwanted pregnancy.

Now, they're trying a backdoor move to do the same all over again.