Buttigieg plays the religion card

[guillaumeb]

From the article:

Here, you have somebody who not only acts in a way that is not consistent with anything that I hear in scripture or in church, where it’s about lifting up the least among us and taking care of strangers, which is another word for immigrants. And making sure that you’re focusing your effort on the poor. But also personally, how you’re supposed to conduct yourself.

Not chest thumping look-at-me-ism, but humbling yourself before others. Foot washing is one of the central images in the New Testament. And we see the diametric opposite of that in this presidency. I think there was perhaps a cynical process where he decided to, for example, begin to pretend to be pro-life and govern accordingly. Which was good enough to bring many Evangelicals over to his side. But even on the version of Christianity that you hear from the religious right, which is about sexual ethics, I can’t believe that somebody who was caught writing hush money checks to adult film actresses is somebody they should be lifting up as the kind of person you want to be leading this nation.

To read more:

https://religionnews.com/2019/04/17/buttigieg-plays-the-religion-card/

Can Buttigieg drive a wedge between Trump and his religious supporters?

Or is racism the key here?

[trotsky]

1. The more important question is, can a mind closed by faith be opened by discussion?

You yourself have declared that what you have supported with your faith does not need to be justified, and cannot be questioned.

[guillaumeb]

3. Can a mind closed by an unprovable position be open to discussion?

Given that theism and atheism are unprovable positions, you tell me the answer.

[Voltaire2]

6. And we are back to square one.

theistic belief and disbelief are not equivalent positions. But this has been discussed here repeatedly.

[guillaumeb]

10. Are either of them provable positions?

No.

[Voltaire2]

12. OK here we go again.

What assertion of fact is it that atheists need to prove?

[guillaumeb]

13. Is either position provable?

No.

There is no "here we go..." aspect.

[Voltaire2]

14. what assertion of fact needs to be proved?

For theists: the assertion that a god exists.
For atheists: ?

Please note that an atheist need not assert that no gods exist, the atheist position is simply an absence of belief in gods. Some atheists might assert that no gods exist, but that is not required to be an atheist.

[marylandblue]

25. I've asked before, but you've never provided a definition of "proof"

Without a definition of the word not only are atheism and theism unprovable, they are also unpizzlable.

[Major Nikon]

18. Yep, easier to just double down on the same nonsense

As if the same worn out canned response is an acceptable substitute for reason.

[trotsky]

15. Atheism isn't an unprovable position. I realize that you insist you get to define it for atheists..

but you're simply wrong. Therefore, your answer is, YOU hold the unprovable position, and your mind is closed.

[guillaumeb]

16. The door to my mind is closed.

And I locked the metaphoric door.

[trotsky]

17. Thank you for illustrating the problem with religious faith.

I couldn't have done it better myself.

[guillaumeb]

19. I cannot hear your knocking.

The door is closed.

Unless you are selling cookies.

[trotsky]

21. Thank you for illustrating it again. n/t

[gtar100]

31. Why do they always attack you instead discuss the articles you post.

Because you don't embrace their position? I thought this sort of crap was against DU rules. I like that you bring up interesting topics. Just wanted to say because it's tiresome to go into a thread that veers off into personal attack mode rather than a discussion of the topic.

[guillaumeb]

32. Many do discuss the actual posts.

And some, in my view, feel that this Group should be reserved for attacks on theism.

Thus the endless diversions.

This is a good example of what can take place, but even in this thread we see familiar observations.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/1218312140

[gtar100]

33. Thank you for sharing that post. I had not seen it.

Worth reading a few times for me.

I said "always"...I am prone to hyperbole. I try to catch it but don't always. Still, I commend you for handling it with grace.

Thank you again, G.

[guillaumeb]

35. The poster, in my experience, writes very well, and with feeling.

I cannot think of one of Bright's posts that I have not recommended.

Thank you for your words. I will try to live up to them.

Guill

[mobeau69]

2. Or is racism the key here?

Do you mean homophobia?

[guillaumeb]

4. Possibly all of the above?

I would never say that all Trump supporters are racists, or homophobes, or liars.

But they all voted for one.

[Voltaire2]

5. You do understand that Obama tried this and got approximately 0 religious voters to change, right?

[Funtatlaguy]

7. Evangelicals think the letter D stands for Devil 👿.

[Voltaire2]

9. Precisely. It's God's Only Party.

Thinking you are going to 'win them over' is nonsense.

[marylandblue]

27. That's not what Mariana's chart in post 23 shows.

[guillaumeb]

38. Do you think that no religious voters voted for President Obama? eom

[MineralMan]

8. I doubt if that will occur.

Trump's supporters who support him on religious grounds are not generally people who are likely to change the fixed views that Trump relies on to keep their support.

If change was likely, other information has long been available.

So, Buttigieg will probably have to settle for people for whom religion is not a club used to beat people over the head.

[guillaumeb]

11. There are Trump supporters who claim to support him

because of the abortion issue. And that will not change.

If Buttigieg feels that he can appeal to a portion of the religious voters who currently support Trump, I wish him well.

[Mariana]

20. His pussy-grabbing activities didn't put them off.

Everyone knew about that before the election in 2016, and still, the majority of Christian voters cast their ballots for Trump.

[trotsky]

22. This point can't be forgotten:

the majority of Christian voters cast their ballots for Trump.

Liberal believers often succumb to the temptation to believe their version is not only the "true" Christianity, but also the most common and/or popular. Voting patterns indicate otherwise. Christians in the USA - particularly white ones - are quite conservative.

[Mariana]

23. Since this fact is often disputed, here is the information.

https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2016/11/09/how-the-faithful-voted-a-preliminary-2016-analysis/

[MineralMan]

24. Yes. The numbers tell the story.

But, see, religion benefits society, we are told. I'm not seeing it, frankly.

[qazplm135]

28. so when I look at that I see the following:

1. The "best" group was Jewish people.
2. But statistically speaking it's a three way tie for best group between Jewish, unaffiliated, and other faiths.
3. Protestants were overall the worst group (mainline protestants are 86% White).
4. Catholics were roughly 50/50, but if you break it down racially, Hispanic Catholics were EQUAL to religiously unaffiliated in support of Trump.
5. White Catholics were the worst group along with Mormons (who are almost exclusively White--85%).

Thus, what that tells me is that race is more important than religion in determining whether someone voted for Trump.
Being a Catholic means either being very much for or against Trump, whether you are White or Hispanic.
Three of the "top" four groups were religious, and one included a Christian religion.
The three "worst" groups were religious, and they all included Christians, but all three are almost exclusively white (85% or higher).

So, being White to me is way more of a problem in this instance than being religious or even Christian. I'm fairly certain the majority of Black and Brown Christians didn't vote for Trump.

[guillaumeb]

30. Excellent observation.

And as if this were not enough, Trump's blatant racism was there to convince the racists that Trump was their candidate.

[guillaumeb]

29. True. eom

[Thomas Hurt]

26. You have to wonder if some on the far right christian spectrum haven't already made Trump divine...

or near enough to it. You aren't driving a wedge between them and Trump.

[guillaumeb]

36. Do they see him as the key to making abortion illegal?

If so, I feel that they will be disappointed.

[gtar100]

34. I think there are some republicans who are reasonable enough

when it comes to issues such as race and homophobia. I just spent a few days with some people last week who are conservative republicans but definitely not racist and they said nothing about LGBT issues. They were kind to strangers of different stripes and talked of many things, the least being anything political. I could see some of them being open to Mayor Pete and his ideas.

But some of them may still, as you said in another post, have voted for the racist currently occupying the White House. My guess it was simply because they identify as republican and on principle vote that way regardless of the actual person with the "R" behind their name. Our two-party system doesn't really reflect who we really are as a community of people.

[guillaumeb]

37. Voting GOP out of habit?

I agree. Perhaps they buy the meme that the GOP is the Party of family values.