Christian Jail Chaplain Fired for Saying He Has a "Mandate" to Convert Muslims

[NeoGreen]

https://friendlyatheist.patheos.com/2019/04/02/christian-jail-chaplain-fired-for-saying-he-has-a-mandate-to-convert-muslims/

Christian Jail Chaplain Fired for Saying He Has a “Mandate” to Convert Muslims
By Hemant Mehta, April 2, 2019

Until this week, Rick Taylor served as the chaplain at High Point Jail in North Carolina, a job he began last October.

In theory, a chaplain in that role is supposed to help prisoners deal with their thoughts and fears through a spiritual lens. Maybe those chaplains moderate religious conversations, offer counseling, lead worship services, etc.

What they can’t do is try to convert everyone. You can imagine how that would go over if we were talking about a Muslim or Hindu chaplain. It’s also the reason Humanist chaplains in the military shouldn’t be a big deal — it wouldn’t be their job to try to get people to stop believing in God.

Yet in an interview with the High Point Times over the weekend, Taylor made it clear to reporter Lee O. Sanderlin that he did everything he could to preach his religion and convert Muslims to Christianity.

[Cartoonist]

1. A Spiritual Lens

WTF? Is that like rose colored glasses? What's wrong with clear glass?

Truth has clear vision. Faith uses one of these:

[marylandblue]

2. In all fairness to prisoners, the truth is that they are in jail and it stinks.

So I can't blame them for seeking solace in religion.

[Major Nikon]

3. I don't blame them, but I can certainly blame the people preying on them

The jail is using taxpayer funds to pay someone to provide hocus pocus to people who need genuine mental health counseling. They should be using those funds to pay for a professional who can actually provide genuine services to those who need it.

[marylandblue]

4. We don't even have enough mental health services for people on the outside.

Like it or not, clergy serve a need that isn't being met by the medical community.

And not everything can be fixed by even top professional counselors, let alone the ones willing to work in prisons when they can get easier, better paying work in a cushy suburb.

[Major Nikon]

5. So we don't have resources for mental health

But we have resources for hocus pocus. What is wrong here?

[marylandblue]

6. It helps people. It keeps them calm and cooperative. It doesn't hurt them.

If there were no chaplains, a lot of prisoners would want one. They may refuse to go to a psychologist. All to satisfy people who aren't in prison and don't work in one.

And my point about not having enough mental health services is that it occurs, in part, because a lot of people think that's hocus pocus too. Doesn't make it right.

I do know some suffering people who were helped by religion. You might disapprove of their choice, but you are not them.

[Major Nikon]

7. Your argument would apply equally well to homeopathy

Regardless of what people think about mental health services, it’s still based in science. Religion is not. When you are paying to provide hocus pocus and resources are limited, yes you are causing harm.

[marylandblue]

9. It's not so clear cut on mental health. Or prison management.

[Major Nikon]

10. You don't think mental health in the US is science based?

[marylandblue]

11. Not my point.

It's not so clear cut that religion has no mental health benefits at all, particularly in a prison setting, and it's also not clear that a psychologist is a viable alternative to religion for all populations. Too many people just won't go to a psychologist but will go to a minister.

[Major Nikon]

12. The difference is one of those two things is science based

Religion doesn’t even rise to the level of pseudoscience. The fact that tax dollars are paying for it means something, especially when religion gets to dictate what tax dollars can go towards legitimate healthcare like reproductive services. That’s how privilege works.

[marylandblue]

13. There actually is evidence that religion can improve mental health.

https://www.psychiatrictimes.com/schizophrenia/religion-spirituality-and-mental-health

[Major Nikon]

14. That's not what your link says

It’s citing correlation, not causal which you are alleging.

It wouldn’t surprise me if those who use magic rocks and ouiji boards had similar correlations. It’s also true that certain types of religious beliefs have negative correlations with certain mental illnesses.
https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007%2Fs10943-013-9712-3

Then there’s also the correlation between brain injury and fundamentalism.
https://bigthink.com/paul-ratner/study-finds-link-between-brain-damage-and-religious-fundamentalism

So one should be careful about analyzing such studies to separate what is causal and what is correlation.

[marylandblue]

15. I said "evidence" not "proof," and the article say does religion is beneficial on balance.

"The evidence suggests that, on balance, religious involvement is generally conducive to better mental health. In addition, patients with psychiatric disorders frequently use religion to cope with their distress."

And yeah, magic rocks probably work too.

[Major Nikon]

16. You said evidence religion can improve mental health

That’s pretty much a direct quote. That’s not what the link says. Such distinctions are important. The placebo effect does happen with all sorts of things and correlations can be noted. That says nothing about effiacy.

[marylandblue]

17. I stated it in my own words, then you gave an irrelevant response

But if you prefer the language of the direct quote, it doesn't change the point all that much.

As far as the "placebo effect," how much have you actually dealt with mental health issues?

It's not like physical health where you measure a health outcome in blood tests or lives saved. In mental treatment, if someone says they feel "sad" and you give them lollipops they may say they "feel better." Congratulations you just proved that lollipops improved mental health. Placebo? Sure. Does that mean we should not supply prisoners with lollipops? Now send those same sad people to a person they believe to be a psychologist, but isn't. They may "feel better" just talking to that person. It may work just as well as visiting an actual psychologist. And it will vary a lot from person to person.

I didn't even get into all the other complications of mental health treatment, where practical diagnosis and delivery is often very different from laboratory conditions, at least when it's not the pill popping kind.

I don't know you, so I don't know how much you've dealt with mental health in your family, but I've dealt with it A LOT and I can promise you there are people for whom going to church is part of the cure and nobody cares at all whether its a placebo or not because they aren't dead or bouncing off the walls.

Which is not the same as saying that fundamentalist nutjob churches are a good thing.

[Major Nikon]

18. If you want to argue we should be spending tax dollars on a placebo, go ahead

But I’m not going there with you.

[marylandblue]

20. I want to argue that mental health is not what you think it is

But you won't go there either, so fine.

[Pope George Ringo II]

8. Embracing religion also often helps convince the state you're a productive member of society again

Whatever it may or may not do for somebody, it's worth keeping in mind that somebody trying to paint a picture of themselves as a "changed (wo)man" who has "turned their life around" and so forth as a "model prisoner" etc. will frequently use religion in an effort to further that cause in hopes of getting out of prison a little faster.

[Mariana]

19. Well, he does have such a mandate, if he follows the teachings of Jesus.

According to the stories, it's part of Jesus's message that his followers are to preach the gospel, and to attempt to convert everyone.

Mr. Taylor had no business taking a job like this. If he insists upon taking Jesus's instructions seriously enough to obey them even when he's on the clock, he should say so during the hiring process. If he did tell the truth about his dedication to his faith during his interview, then shame on the person who hired him. He or she should have known better, even if Mr. Taylor didn't.

[demigoddess]

21. why can't they just agree that all Gods are the same God, just

called by different names. I am so sick of religious wars. All through history. Now in our own time.