United Methodists face vote on LGBTQ issues. Will it rip the church apart?

[left-of-center2012]

The United Methodist General Conference meets this month in St. Louis. The conference meets every four years, but a special session was called to vote on a plan regarding same-sex marriage and the acceptance of LGBTQ clergy in the church. The United Methodist Church faces the possibility of a schism because of the vote. It's inevitable that people will leave the church because of how polarizing the issue is, according to congregants, clergy and experts. It's also possible entire congregations could leave the denomination. United Methodist churches and properties are currently owned by the denomination.

United Methodists represent the second-largest protestant denomination in the United States, behind churches that are part of the Southern Baptist Convention.

After the 2016 General Conference, the Commission on a Way Forward was appointed to study Scripture and come up with plans addressing sexuality in United Methodist churches around the world. Of the three most prominent plans, the Council of Bishops recommends the 'One Church Plan', which would allow churches and pastors to make decisions based on their specific congregations and conferences.

That means that United Methodist pastors would be allowed, but not required, to perform same-sex marriages. But marriages would not be performed in the church unless the congregation votes to approve them before the first one.

The 'One Church Plan' would allow annual conferences regional United Methodist leadership bodies to ordain LGBTQ pastors but they would not be forced to. An extra bishop would be made available if the assigned bishop of the conference were to be uncomfortable with the ordination.

The 'Traditional Plan' would strengthen language in the Book of Discipline to enforce current prohibitions on same-sex marriage and the ordination of LGBTQ clergy. It would also allow conferences and individual churches to leave the denomination.

https://www.courant.com/nation-world/sns-tns-bc-relig-methodists-lgbtq-20190204-story.html

[MineralMan]

1. One more way that denominations splinter into sub-denominations.

The Presbyterian Church fragmented over the ordination of women, decades ago. The church I used to attend dropped out of the denomination and renamed itself over that issue.

LGBTQ issues are even more powerful in fragmenting denominations. I expect the United Methodists to un-unite over this. Some will leave, regardless of how the General Conference decides.

And so Christianity fragments itself into smaller and smaller groups. The process has been going on since Martin Luther and the Reformation. The Christian faith will continue to fragment. That's how it all works. Eventually, it will end up with a "One Person; One Church," which will be the end of the whole thing. That's many decades or centuries down the road, though.

[left-of-center2012]

2. "Christianity fragments itself ... has been going on since Martin Luther and the Reformation"

Or ~

“Eastern Orthodox Catholics and Roman Catholics are the result of what is known as the East-West Schism (or Great Schism) of 1054, when medieval Christianity split into two branches.”

https://tinyurl.com/yc6o4sov

[MineralMan]

3. Yes, it goes all the way back, doesn't it?

People can't seem to agree on much having to do with religion, it seems.

[left-of-center2012]

4. I had two older brothers who were Baptist ministers

They argued scripture all the time,
although they both had attended the same school (Moody Bible Institute).

[MineralMan]

5. Not surprising, really.

Now, a guy would think that "God-given" scripture would be clear and undisputed. Not so, apparently. More hints that the Bible is a collection of human-written stories that has nothing whatever to do with any deity at all.

And it gets even stranger when different denominations think one translation among all of the translations of the thing is the "True Word of God."

I have a niece who is a devout Christian of a particular denomination. When she got married, my then-wife and I decided to give her a big "Family Bible." Before we did that, though, I called the pastor of the church she attended to ask which translation that church used. Had I not, my gift might have been rejected as somehow inappropriate. Of course, she and her husband have changed churches several times since then over minor issues, so...

It would be grand comedy if so many people didn't take it so seriously.

[SWBTATTReg]

6. What does it matter? So this group of people (United Ms) will either support or not support same...

sex marriage and/or same sex clergy into their church. To be honest w/ you, I could care less as usually what it does is bring out the worst in people who then gay bash with all of the hateful rhetoric as they usually do.

This routine has been done back and forth, back and forth, back and forth, etc. on many different fronts and clearly points out the bigotry still out there. This issue has been intentionally used as a scare tactic with the voters too many times and many in the gay world are sick and tired of it. And this 'fake outrage' is getting really old.

Bigotry is bigotry, plain and simple. Hate is hate.

And don't point out words written supposedly thousands of years ago whose meanings can be interpreted in many different ways, as being against same sex. They used this same type of language to justify slavery and other things just as bad. Sickening. If you want to use words from the bible or associated texts why don't these haters point out these verses below (or did they deliberately forget them)?

Mark 12:31 - And the second [is] like, [namely] this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these.
John 4:11 - Beloved, if God so loved us, we ought also to love one another.

I would think that there are far more substantial issues at hand that need to be dealt with, such as hunger, poverty, disease, inequality, better overall wages, providing shelter for all, etc. Far more better issues to deal with then this. I know that perhaps in some minds this will ease their burden in service to the church or be accepted by the church, and that's fine.

If a human being truly wants to serve the church or whatever, what does it really matter as to their gender preference, or anything else for that matter? What business is it of theirs anyway? Maybe I'm missing something here but I don't think so. I thought that this was a 'free country', eh? This is me being sarcastic here being that you hear 'oh, you're infringing on my freedom' and then they turn right around and infringe on others' rights.

[Freddie]

7. The "One Church Plan"

Wherein each individual congregation can decide issues of gay clergy and same-sex marriage ceremonies in the church - is basically what the ELCA decided back in 2009. Some congratulations left the ELCA over it. But essentially the issue is decided and there was less anguish over it than most people thought. When same-sex marriage became legal in Pennsylvania (a little while before nationally) the council at my church voted unanimously to allow it.

[bobbieinok]

9. Was that 'acceptance' of gays' why Piper said God sent a destructive tornado to MN?

Piper is a super-conservative Calvinist, who with Mohler has made adherence to Calvinism a litmus test for SoBaptist leaders.

So did God pre-determine the decision and his punishment for it?

Calvinism makes my head hurt!! And my heart!

[bobbieinok]

8. I've read several blogs of ministers who believe there will be a split.

One is a University chaplain. He says several students have left the methodists, some Christisnity entirely over the hate toward gays coming from some church leaders they had admired.