Any auto buffs have thoughts about what will happen to the value of collector IC cars...

[brush]

once E-cars become the dominant vehicles on the roads and gas stations become scarcer?

Six and seven-figure concours d'Elegance quality vehicles probably won't be devalued, but what about the value of a person's car who has one vintage sports car or an American muscle car in his or her garage that only gets driven on the weekends (that includes me), are our cars going to go down in value?

[rickford66]

1. How long did it take for leaded gas to disappear ?

It'll probably take that long for unleaded gas to disappear. But I figure there will be places to buy unleaded gas for a price.

[Mr.Bill]

3. I was going to say a lot will depend on the price of gas.

To use extremes, if gas was $50 a gallon, but the charging of the EV was free, guess what I will be driving. But if I owned a classic muscle car, I would still keep it and splurge on the fuel for a short drive now and then. To me, part of the point of owning a classic ICE car is that I know how to work on them and care for and preserve them. There is enjoyment in just the ownership even without driving it. That's what musems do, after all.

And expensive gas and cheap charging are both within the government's power to provide.

[rickford66]

4. Aviation gas will always be available

but is it legal to put in an automobile ? Like heavy equipment fuel oil can't be used in home heating because of the tax issues.

[Mr.Bill]

6. I don't know how legal it is from state to state

to use AV Gas in a car, but people do it. Back in the day it was very popular at the dragstrip. But even now it is very expensive. Always has cost more than regular gas. About double last time I checked.

[brush]

7. Agreed. Pride of ownership and weekend driving only.

[Mr.Bill]

9. Really it's that way already

for some of the older enthusiasts.

[Best_man23]

21. You can still get leaded gas for race cars

Lead is an octane booster, and in older engines it reduces valve and valve seat wear.

https://www.sunocoracefuels.com/fuels/fuel/cyclone-17

It took over 20 years from the time the EPA mandated unleaded gasoline for most gas stations to remove their lead gas pumps. Even after that, you still have gas stations that sell racing gasoline that in some instances, does contain lead. Its likely once electric or fuel cell vehicles are the norm, gasoline for IC and classic cars will still be available, sold in cans like the one at the link above.

[napi21]

2. I believe sports cars & Muscle cars will rise in value. There's always going to be people who

love & value those cars, the same as there are those who value cars that are antiques today.

[SonofDonald]

5. I've been around Austin Healy's, Jaguars, sprint cars, many others

Since I was a child, my Father was an antique car restorer, show car judge and estimator of their value.

He passed ten years ago and taught me all about his hobby/business but in reality the future worth of these vehicles depends on availability of gas or another alternate fuel to run them, I’ve known for a few years now that throwing truckloads of money into a vintage or collector car isn’t a good idea these days.

Someday the internal combustion engine may actually become hard to feed if we can get enough people to agree to newer technology that’s not harming our planet just to travel to the store.

Someday the fact that you have a million dollar Ferrari in the garage just means you own a piece of metal that you can’t find fuel for and may actually become very expensive to drive, of course a million dollar car owner may be able to afford driving it but then public acceptance of your polluter on the streets may not be achievable.

I have two vintage cars, a 1929 Model A truck and a 1947 Ford sedan both fully restored, I’ve only put 150-200 miles on either in the last 15 years, it’s not worth converting them to electric or other tech as the Model A is essentially a piece of farm equipment and the sedan isn’t really worth throwing that much money at.

I also have two Mustang convertibles, a 1994 GT and a 1998 Cobra, I’m saving the money to convert the cobra to electric and ford even makes a kit to do so, I’d rather do that than buy a new car.

It’s hard to know what will happen in the future but my thought is that throwing tens of thousands of dollars at that special car you want to drive for the rest of your days isn’t realistic anymore, although I’m not an expert I’ve been around the hobby long enough to see the writing on the wall.

And it says someday that expensive collector car may just sit in the garage collecting dust because you didn’t sell it in time.

My thoughts are have fun with your muscle car/ vintage car/ family heirloom while you can as I will do but expecting them to hold their value for another two decades may not be reasonable.

I rather have a nice house, pay the grandkids college tuition and enjoy my life than miss the hint that the car in the garage is heading toward lawn art usage.

[brush]

8. NOOOOOOO! Your last sentence is so depressing, but I get it as it's what I was fearing.

You seem to be a real car person youself with quite a history of cars/Fords. Is that '47 Ford a "shoebox Ford" or those came a bit later?

Jags and Healeys very nice too.

Thanks for the thoughtful post.

[SonofDonald]

13. I'm going to keep on enjoying mine

While I can but it’s just that I think starting an expensive car project or buying a new muscle car may not be a good idea if what you’re looking for is resale value later.

Right now it’s a great time for cars, look at what you can buy, horsepower by the ton, handling, stopping etc, the prices are up, the quality is there in restored toys if you're careful, it’s another golden age.

But it will come to an end.

The 1947 Ford is called a Super Deluxe, it’s big, black with whitewalls, suicide doors in the rear, flathead V8, three on the tree.

It’s like a waterbed on wheels in the corners and the brakes are old tech, I’m converting it to twelve volt right now so I can have headlights and drive it at night if I want.

It’s just prior to the shoebox era, fun old beast and it will do 60 on the freeway.

[Metaphorical]

10. Gas and ICE cars

I think conversion kits will be go-to solution, assuming the costs of batteries and charging both drop as predicted. Batteries generally have fewer physical constraint limitations than internal combustion engines, so you can shape such batteries in ways that physical engines can't. You can always go with a hybrid approach as well, if adding torque was your objective.

I think we have about twenty years or so before we are far enough off the peak of global peak oil (which I believe we hit about fifteen years ago now) that gas for ICE vehicles is going to be too expensive for all but the wealthiest car owners, and in my experience, for every one of those people who looks at burning expensive gasoline as an indication of their wealth, there are five or six people who see it as senseless waste.

[brush]

11. Thanks. I was having this discussion with a friend a couple...

of days ago and we both agreed IC venicles are on the way out fast as GM and Ford are both scheduled to stop producing them next decade, but also, E-cars maybe just stop gap until hydrogen-fueled cars are perfected.

[SonofDonald]

15. What you said about global peak of oil

I worked for Chevron USA in 1985 and we were told then that they had enough oil already found to expect that the semi easy pickings would last another 60 years but the peak would be 20 years out.

Works out to 2005, yup, a little over 15 years ago…..

Now the question is: how many of us think that we should be using petroleum products for another 40 years?

I sure don’t but then I won’t be here in 20 years, I’d sure love to see that world of the future before I go though.

[Hermit-The-Prog]

12. EV conversions have been around a long time

http://evcl.com/914/

And they're still going on:

http://www.evalbum.com/5553

Then again, you can always grow some algae or distill some moonshine for your own fuel.

[Best_man23]

22. Its going to take a long time for the classic car community to embrace EV conversions

I'm not saying anything against doing an EV conversion, as I like the idea in builds where doing the EV conversion is not going to impact the vehicle's value.

The reason I say its going to take time for EV conversions to be embraced is when Hot Rod magazine did an EV conversion on their Project X 57 Chevy Bel Air last year, the blowback from their readership was so intense, they converted the car back to gasoline this year. The rejection of the Project X EV conversion was far more intense than the blowback on Hot Rod for publishing a single magazine issue several years ago that featured a cover story on a 1969 Camaro outfitted with a Toyota 2JZ engine. In that instance, I personally know one person who took an XActo knife, cut the article out of the magazine, and burned the pages.

[OneBlueDotS-Carolina]

14. Only value we're concerned about is...

appraisals for insurance purposes. Street value is not really an issue.

Finding parts is always a huge challenge, whereas I can't see finding fuel will be a problem until my kids take my driver's license away.

[hydrolastic]

16. It will stay the same as today until emissions become the major issue

when industry and retail markets get under emission control, then running an IC engine will be regulated. I see ordinary driver cars becoming valueless. The specialty cars will always be collectable. Ic engines are going the way of steam.

[Old Crank]

17. I read a while ago

That the value of 1930-45 year vehicles had topped and was heading down. Not for the rare versions in better than new condition, but the normal everyman collector. The price had gone up because the ownders related them to the cars of their childhood. The 60-70 muscle was trendingup at that time but expected to plateau once everyone with the desire and means got one. As we start dieing off and or can't deal with the vehicles any more prices will start to come down somewhat. Caveates include inflation and scarcity of particular vehicles. But most of the regular folk collectors seem to go for the cars they were familiar with from their teens and twenties.

Cars after the 80s got harder to work on for regular people so that might prop up the 60-70 vintages. Best thing is to buy what ou want or can afford. Enjoy it on weekends gas will be around for some time and a tank a week won't be much cost for a fun weekend.

Buying a car for 'investment' purposes is a fools errand unless you can afford the tip top of the lines and then afford the maintenance of a vehicle you can't drive.

[TeamProg]

18. """Buying a car for 'investment' purposes is a fools errand unless you can afford the tip top of the

lines and then afford the maintenance of a vehicle you can't drive.""""

Oh man, what? I have to disagree.

A collectable decent driver with no rust will have gone up, even in the last 10 years (20+ years even higher), if you bought these cars at the market price at the time and did the most basic, annual maintenance:


1957 T-Bird
Any year Triumph TR6, TR4 or TR3
Any pre-'75 Jaguar XKE
1972-77 Ford F250
Any early Ford Bronco
Any MK1 Toyota MR2
Any pre-rubber-bumper MG B, A, C or T series.
Any year Dino 246
How about a Volvo P1800
Any gas powered Delorean

I could go on and on.

I currently own four within this group. Hagerty insurance writes me every year and gives me the new market values.

"Fool's errand"? Hardly.

[Old Crank]

19. You have to account for all costs

The cars you mentioned are at close to what the article that I read will plateau. Olny the pristine will increase much in value. They cost a lot to keep maintained at above showroom condition. Drivers are nicer to have, and you get to use them, but are worth a lot less. I doubt that the market for the cars you mentioned is strong in the sub 30 year-old set. I remember the cars you have. Nice cars for their day, but I am 70+. Our numbers are in decline.

There are more costs than yearly maintenance. Storage and insurance count also. Storage expenses for ownership vary based on do you need to rent space, your own garage, did you build it for the purpose. Your time. Yearly inflation takes a cut.

Buy one that you will enjoy driving and can afford to maintain. Just don't buy for the hopes of a huge profit.

[TeamProg]

20. Hmmm, a few thoughts.

Even in the most practical sense one would think that an old car would plateau, sure. But man, have you checked out the price of a Model A, Cord or a Marmon recently? Or the price on a DeLorean DMC-12, which is kind of a crappy car?

I've read plenty of articles about the values of collector cars and the cars go up and down with external trends. But when pristine cars keeps breaking record prices, the lesser condition cars all go up. There is no denying that.

"Only the pristine will increase much in value." A greater increase for sure, but from my personal experience and other vintage car collectors that I know, even daily drivers are increasing in value a lot. I have seen a 100% increase in 10 years, 400% 20 years, 800% in 30 years. I'd say that's a pretty good investment and that is what myself and others that I know have experienced - on part-time daily drivers.

Examples:
A current neighbor paid 30k for a 1970 Porsche 911T nice driver 15 years ago, he recently turned down a 100k offer.
An old roommate bought a Jag XK120 for 6k in 1989, today it's worth 70k as-is and a lot more if he painted the thing.

Insurance? - No. Classic car insurance is so cheap!

Storage? Certainly that would be am off-setting cost be but not if you already own enough garage space for the vehicles.

""Drivers are nicer to have, and you get to use them, but are worth a lot less."" Yes, but mostly still worth more than what they were purchased for. The investment is pretty solid.


"" I doubt that the market for the cars you mentioned is strong in the sub 30 year-old set."" - Young people are still getting into the Beatles and Stones.

Aesthetics (an old Jag) stand the test of time, semantics (a Ford Focus) generally do not.


""Yearly inflation takes a cut. "" Like any tangible good, the monetary value goes up against a weaker dollar.


""Buy one that you will enjoy driving and can afford to maintain. Just don't buy for the hopes of a huge profit.""

To expect a "huge profit" on any investment isn't reality, but even money market accounts won't double your money in 10 years, or even 20 years.


I'd say the main problem with long term ownership is that young people aren't as much into collecting or owning a bunch of stuff - so that will affect even showroom quality vehicles. The other major problem is the overall future of the planet / global economy. You can't eat a car, but you can't eat gold or a Monet, either.

It also help to be at least a little bit of a mechanic to save money and / or as a hobby. Parts for old collectors aren't outrageous except for German and Italian stuff.

One of the nicest things about driving them aside from the fun and handling, is the friendly waves and conversations they start, meeting other collectors, group drives, etc.

Have fun!