Can we not discuss this?

[backtoblue]

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1002191534

I'm not sure if it was worded badly or what, but I don't see the problem with addressing a problem and having a civil conversation about it.

I hope by posting this I don't get into trouble.

[redqueen]

1. I would like to, but yeah, that was VERY badly worded.

First of all the implication that any man who got defensive 'may have raped someone at some point'.

That's the same sloppy thinking that some people use to imagine that any women who got upset by objectification are ugly, jealous, not getting any, etc. It's just lazy, and also offensive.

Even worse, defensive men were compared to Holocaust deniers. Those people intentionally twist facts and revise history to suit their agenda. A few of the 'but but but' crowd are probably indeed doing that, but I think most of them are far more likely reacting in line with the description proposed in post 11.

[backtoblue]

2. k, I understand.

I just wish the op would've presented her argument in a better way, because it is a topic worth exploring. Thank you for answering and I'm going to delete my op since I've got my answers .

[Sera_Bellum]

3. Not badly worded by the poster.

The utter contempt so many men have for women is just glaringly obvious,
even on a thread discussing violence against women.

You knew the conversation was going south when a man was wanting a discussion about filicide. WTF

Really, MRA types want to control the message any which they can.

[redqueen]

5. Yeah, I was responding to that when it got locked.

MRA types love changing the subject. Nevermind the fact that filicide isn't an epidemic, the subject was men getting their boxers bunched because anyone talks about rape. But that's what they do, as reliable as rain... evade, obfuscate, avoid. It's all they have. Well, that and twisting statistics to suit their agenda. Have you seen the latest gem they're throwing around? That domestic violence is usually instigated by women?

I think it's an important conversation to have. I'm sure we'll get around to it again soon.

[backtoblue]

6. well, i was going to delete my op

but I think the question has been answered and hopefully others might read this and have a better understanding of why it was locked.

and, I 'm sure that we'll have a better written address to our rape culture soon.

[uppityperson]

4. I read and had to figure out why it was hidden. My take on it...

These are the parts that got it hidden. The first 2 as broadbrushing, the last tried to clarify but may have come too late to avoid the Hide thing.

"the men that are defensive may have raped someone at some point"

"There are some men, when they see the topic is rape, immediately get defensive... almost like holocaust deniers. "

"Usually, when I get defensive about something, it's because I've done something wrong or perceived that I've done something wrong. So, psychologically, I'm sure I turn my reactions around on others."

This sounds like the poster was saying that someone who doesn't like being accused of something horrible must have done it which is rather simplistic, imo.

Yes, "some" men may fit into this category, but seems if you accuse someone of something really horrible, like rape, and they get defensive, it could very easily be that they don't like being accused, are frustrated with doing what they can to help stop this horrible thing, and still be looked at as a contributor.

Also as Sera Bellum put it "Men get defensive because they know it is men who commit these violent crimes. It really does pain them thinking their brother, their uncle, their sons, or their father could do such a thing. "

[seabeyond]

7. it is what society is teaching both genders. it behooves neither gender. we need to understand BOTH

Only Psychos Think Rape is OK...Right?

Societal Attitudes Supporting Rape

- A survey of 6,159 college students enrolled at 32 institutions in the U.S. found the following: (ref 4)

· 54% of the women surveyed had been the victims of some form of sexual abuse; more than one in four college-aged women had been the victim of rape or attempted rape;

· 57% of the assaults occurred on dates;

· 73% of the assailants and 55% of the victims had used alcohol or other drugs prior to the assault;

· 25% of the men surveyed admitted some degree of sexually aggressive behavior;

· 42% of the victims told no one.

- In a survey of high school students, 56% of the girls and 76% of the boys believed forced sex was acceptable under some circumstances. (ref 5)

- A survey of 11-to-14 year-olds found ref 5)

· 51% of the boys and 41% of the girls said forced sex was acceptable if the boy, "spent a lot of money" on the girl;

· 31% of the boys and 32% of the girls said it was acceptable for a man to rape a woman with past sexual experience;

· 87% of boys and 79% of girls said sexual assault was acceptable if the man and the woman were married;

· 65% of the boys and 47% of the girls said it was acceptable for a boy to rape a girl if they had been dating for more than six months.

- In a survey of male college students:

· 35% anonymously admitted that, under certain circumstances, they would commit rape if they believed they could get away with it (ref 6,7).

· One in 12 admitted to committing acts that met the legal definitions of rape, and 84% of men who committed rape did not label it as rape.(ref 6,7)

- In another survey of college males: (ref 8)

· 43% of college-aged men admitted to using coercive behavior to have sex, including ignoring a woman's protest, using physical aggression, and forcing intercourse.

· 15% acknowledged they had committed acquaintance rape; 11% acknowledged using physical restraints to force a woman to have sex.

- Women with a history of rape or attempted rape during adolescence were almost twice as likely to experience a sexual assault during college, and were three times as likely to be victimized by a husband. (ref 9)

- Sexual assault is reported by 33% to 46% of women who are being physically assaulted by their husbands.(ref 10)

http://www.uic.edu/depts/owa/sa_rape_support.html

[Sera_Bellum]

8. Hardly surprising.

Yet with these facts in their myopic faces, some dudes would STILL obfuscate by saying 'what about the menzzzz?'

The 'well men get raped too' is hardly part of the discussion on the number of women and girls who are tortured, mutilated and killed every second of every day. Men need to ask who is raping the handful of them. Ummm mostly other MEN.

Very simple. Men are the root of most of the violence.

[seabeyond]

9. why? thinking with the little head. brain in the little head. biology. he is a teen. cant help

Last edited Fri Jan 20, 2012, 05:01 PM - Edit history (1)

himself.

listen to men talk about their penis. all consuming all powerful all of who they are.

boys hear this from the youngest of age and grow up with this. that is all they know in society. oh my fckin god... testosterone. the world is in awe of testosterone.

how often do we hear talk about womens sexuality, UNLESS it is to get the man off.

how often do we hear, brag, gloat about our estrogen.

the world is having this love affair with the male sexuality. we have created a god.

and then we wonder why both genders at a young age walking into this are so fucked up.

tell you. i address this with my boys. watching them grow up. at a certain age so fuckin in love with their testosterone that is all i hear. enough. as awesome as it is, it is not all that. perspective boys. reality boys. love your maleness but it isnt the be all end all.