Feminists
Related: About this forumDenouncing binge drinking is not victim-blaming
By Ruth Marcus in WaPo
The message of Emily Yoffes Slate article about binge drinking and sexual assault on college campuses was as important as it was obvious: The best step that young women can take to protect themselves is to stop drinking to excess. Young women everywhere not to mention their mothers ought to be thanking Yoffe. Instead, shes being pilloried.. Argued Yoffes Slate colleague Amanda Hess, We can prevent the most rapes on campus by putting our efforts toward finding and punishing those perpetrators, not by warning their huge number of potential victims to skip out on parties.
Excuse me, but no ones suggesting that our daughters should be holed up in the library studying every night, forswearing any semblance of a social life. Yoffe (disclosure: shes a close friend) is saying that the responsible advice is the one that Ive been trying to impart for years to my now-teenage daughters: When you drink (because, lets be serious, theyre not waiting until 21), dont drink too much. Consider the female Naval Academy midshipman who started with seven shots of coconut rum and woke up in an off-campus football house wondering what had happened. (Answer: Sexual encounters with three midshipmen, two of whom are being court-martialed.)
None of this none of it excuses men, sober or drunk, who prey on women, sober or drunk, to have sex without giving consent. Men who behave that way ought to be punished. Parents should warn their sons: Not only does no mean no, being too incapacitated to say yes also mean no.
(snip)
A misplaced fear of blaming the victim has made it somehow unacceptable to warn inexperienced young women that when they get wasted, they are putting themselves in potential peril, Yoffe wrote. Young women are getting a distorted message that their right to match men drink for drink is a feminist issue. The real feminist message should be that when you lose the ability to be responsible for yourself, you drastically increase the chances that you will attract the kinds of people who . . . dont have your best interest at heart.
(snip)
Yale law student Alexandra Brodsky, co-founder of a campaign against campus sexual violence, said suggesting that women drink less preserves the power structures that perpetuate violence and demands that the victimized sacrifice their freedom . . . so we dont have to disturb the status quo. University of Massachusetts philosophy professor Louise Antony likewise warned that it sends the message that we have chosen to regard misogyny as inevitable.
Oh please. This isnt a gender studies class; its the real world. In which Yoffes piece ought to be required reading for every college student, male and female.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/ruth-marcus-missing-the-point-on-binge-drinking/2013/10/24/56c8a70a-3ce0-11e3-a94f-b58017bfee6c_story.html
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Several weeks ago, on a different forum here I was lamenting young women who go to meet their abusive boyfriends "just one more time" and end up being killed. And I was denounced for "blaming the victim."
DetlefK
(16,450 posts)intaglio
(8,170 posts)Warning against any behaviour, binge drinking included, because it encourages rapists is another because thing entirely. Warning in those terms encourages perpetrators, onlookers, family, friends, police, prosecutors, judges and juries to see the victim as contributing to the rape. What is worse is that it encourages the victim to see fault in themselves and so blame themselves.
If you accept warnings about binge drinking in respect of rape then why not start issuing warnings about revealing clothing or going to any party with boys or walking down a street alone or being friendly in any way with a man. Worse still it ignores the most common behaviour leading to rape - being related to the perpetrator.
efhmc
(15,000 posts)Bad things can happen to you if you drink to excess. The best idea is not to do it at all and the next best idea is not to do it around strangers.
TwilightGardener
(46,416 posts)control your own. If you voluntarily incapacitate yourself, you have given up control over the situation--and handed it over to people you may not be able to trust. Young men who stumble around drunk also can be easy marks for assaults and muggings. Why do that to yourself, no matter the gender? Stop before you are shitfaced, for Christ's sake, because there are opportunists, sociopaths, and predators everywhere.
libodem
(19,288 posts)I believe there is room for both schools of thought. I can't see why informing young females that loosing control of their faculties by drinking to unconsciousness could lead to someone else taking control of you. Of course rapers should not rape and they are to blame for the violence. Why provide them an opportunity?
I think we should be supportive of each other as females. Sometimes one can feel ganged up on when, several posters who are familiar with each other, come to a thread and back each other up on a point of view. I'm not sure why it happens but I think it is to prevent them from being bullied by someone they they think is challenging their ideas? So in effect they will do to someone else that which they try to avoid happening to them.
There is a bit of defensiveness and the expectation that any other point of view is an attack, that you could be a man, or a troll. You just have to know in your heart whether you are a feminist or not. You may not find validation here.
Gormy Cuss
(30,884 posts)Last edited Mon Oct 28, 2013, 03:54 PM - Edit history (1)
No one in their right mind is against the counsel that being drunk to the point of blackout or passing out is risky. In fact, I think most of us would agree that there is considerable risk associated with it regardless of the person's gender.
Yet the risk for males is framed as doing harm to self and others; the risk for females is framed as being harmed by others .The difference in that message is not subtle. Men have power, women don't. The reality of course is that both can do harm to self, both can harm others, both can be harmed by others.
question everything
(48,721 posts)Sure, men can get raped and mugged but the majority of the victims of binge drinking in colleges are women.
We want men to be sexually responsible, but the reality is that only women get pregnant. The reality is that men can escape town, or simply continue to party, while a woman has to decide, first, whether she wants to carry her pregnancy to term, and if yes, to go through the physical changes and then to decide whether to keep the child or not.
It is not enough to say "everything you can do I can do (better);" it is important to recognize that, yes, men and women are different. Women often get drunk with less alcohol than men.
I would like to think that feminism means that women, and men, can choose how to run their lives regardless of gender assignment, while recognizing that genetically, anatomically, perhaps even psychologically, there are differences. Mature, self confident individuals can work with these differences.
Gormy Cuss
(30,884 posts)Men AND women on college campuses indulge in binge drinking. When one rapes the other, society tends to blame the victim for losing control of self while all too often excusing the perpetrator if he says he was too drunk to think straight. That's the undercurrent in much of the criticism of Yoffe's piece.
intaglio laid it all out upthread, no need to repeat it here.
La Lioness Priyanka
(53,866 posts)msongs
(70,092 posts)Starry Messenger
(32,375 posts)The school I went to was 80% women.