The whole Israel/Palestine thing going on now is sad. Even here, people have found their corners

[Eko]

This discussion thread was locked as off-topic by Lithos (a host of the Israel/Palestine group).

and are fighting over it. How the hell do we expect them, in it, not to fight even more than us who aren't in it. I chose no side. Not Israel or Palestine. I choose the innocent children and people who will die for what? A Holy land? Does that sound Holy? If that is the Holy land I want nothing to do with that. Ever. There will never be peace there because it is the Holy land. They will always fight for it as long as it is the Holy land and they will kill innocent people for their Holy land. What a fucking mess and a fucking shame. A shame on humanity and even worse on intelligence. We can be so much but we do this.
Eko.

[applegrove]

1. 300+ Israeli dead and with the power off in GAZA, all those children in hospittals

there will get sicker and die. GAZA children were allowed to go for cancer treatment in Israel until today. Hamas are terrorists. Israel is not. There is a difference.

[Swede]

2. Hamas wanted a war.

And boy are they gonna get a war.

[Eko]

6. Sure thing.

[Eko]

3. Hi applegrove.

That's absolutely horrible. I agree attacking innocent children and people is a terrorist attack. The Palestine death toll of innocents is also horrific and a terrorist attack. I don't see the difference. You can say one is in reaction to an attack, that's fine. But you cant say they aren't both terrorism. One side reacts, the other side reacts, the other side reacts, the other side reacts. When and how do you decide where the loss of innocent lives is ok? That's insanity. Both are insane for perpetuating the whole thing. Neither will stop so it will go on and on and on.
Eko.

[applegrove]

5. Israelis who commit unprecedented attacks go to jail. I wonder if Putin is trying to increase

desperate refugees. Israel will counter GAZA. People will leave. They will go to Europe. Europe will become less welcoming of immigrants and more right wing. Putin did it with Syrians. Rinse repeat.

[Eko]

7. Like I said I only take one side.

And this has been going on before Putin.
It's a Holy war.
What else would you expect from it? The innocent don't matter in a Holy war.
Eko.

[applegrove]

14. They do matter to Israelis. I'm sure, after ISiS, the greater Islamic states

around Israel are not into a holy war. That leaves Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran and Russia all of them led by evil men. It is never the religion. It is the evil men who get ahold of the holy or the nation states and act out their sadistic needs.

[Eko]

16. So the Israelis are not expanding their settlements because they believe

they have a holy right to be there? They are not kicking out Palestinians because they think they are deserving that land?
Huh, guess I was totally wrong on that.
Eko.

[applegrove]

18. Yes there are settlers. And the evil sadistic ones who kill Palestinians go to jail.

What happens to the evil sadistic Hamas leaders or followers after they kill innocent civilians in Israel? They get celebrated, promoted, $$$$ for their families. Israel is the only side that is policing. Yes the settlers are crazy religious and put themselves and others in danger for their dreams. I'll grant you that religious can go out on a limb where they leave right and wrong behind. They can be used to do it. Same as Palestinians in GAZA who live in a situation where 1/3 of their children have considered suicide they are so hungry and insecure. Crazy religious people. Makes me sick.

[Eko]

17. It is never the religion.

I think I see your problem. You think religion is all good. Ok. Its not that its the holy land its just a way more prime real-estate than anywhere on the earth that has caused all these evil people to want it. Regardless that it has less oil and natural resources than most places, or that a large portion of it is just straight desert with no water. Its the prime real-estate that the evil men want to control. Tell me this, why do they want it? For what reason?

[applegrove]

19. No I don't think religions are all good. In the wrong hands they cause genocide.

Last edited Sat Oct 7, 2023, 11:09 PM - Edit history (2)

Same as any group of humans. You are aware I take it that religion is a human fiction/construct like The Law, nation states, banking, philosophy, the UN, OPEC, monarchies, and many others, that organizes people in systems that can do good or bad (sometimes both) depending on who is leading.

[Eko]

20. So why do the evil men want it?

For what reason? The best reason you could say is nation states but the two state solution has been around for a while and that seems to be in contrast to that. So if not that then what?

[applegrove]

21. Israel wants to exist. That is how they get their hearts around the Settler issue.

Hamas does not want Israel to exist. So I would say the Hamas leadership is following an evil path using terror. Israel is not. Hamas wants blood. Bloodthirstyness at the top of HAMAS. Tehran gives them $100 million a year. So those who please Iran get $$$. Those are some evil fucks. For sure they say it is about religion but religion can evolve to be anything it just depends on who the power-hungry bloodthirsty ones are and if they are in power and or in money. It could be Putin. We just don't know.

Jake Tapper described video of a gang of men parading around with the unconscious body of an Israeli/German woman one guy with his leg around her waist, another yelling God Is Great while grabbing a clump of her hair, another spitting in her face. Surely you think something more is going on here than religion.

[Eko]

26. No, I dont.

Israel does not want Hamas to exist. Do you doubt that? Do you think the illegal settlements are good? They make the Palestinians feel good? Ah yeah, kick them out of their homes, beat them kill them take over their lands. Does that seem good to you? Is that goodness? Is that righteousness? Are you blind to what is going on? If Mexico took over your lands would you be like "all good". Really? That is not to say that any act done by them is in any way good but if you don't know the history your just ignorant. Israel has been taking over Palestinians lands for a while now and not knowing that is just, dumb. Anyone would be mad.
Eko.

[applegrove]

28. And Palestine had 50 years to negotiate a peace and they did not. The Israelis

said times up and sent in the settlers. I don't agree with that but understand if Palestinians will not allow Israel to exist, Israel does what it wants. 'Settlers' has taken over 'the 1967 borders' as a meme. Other groups use the word apartheid to describe their situation in the world, not just South Africa and then the Palestinians in 'Israel Apartheid'. So they lost the meme war. Palestine keeps losing. And their people keep losing. And the children keep losing. And they obviously had months and intelligence agencies from Iran and maybe Russia helping them plan this and Israel will attack Hamas and destroy Gaza. They had no plan for day 5. The children will lose again. And again. And it is more than Islam going on.

Interesting to note that it looks to me like Hezbollah increased their digital activities to fool Israel into going to the West Bank (as digital intelligence Israel was collecting on GAZA went quiet they say). Just a guess but Israeli military assets were moved to the West Bank and had to race back towards GAZA yesterday.

This from July 6th.

https://www.atlanticcouncil.org/blogs/iransource/hezbollah-lebanon-israel-iran-battlefront/

[Eko]

29. And Israel had 50 years to do the same but they did not.

Right? You seem to keep taking their sides? Why is that?

[applegrove]

30. Because they are not terrorists.

[Eko]

31. They dont kill innocent kids and people?

To further their politics? They dont kick families out of their homes so they can live there? These things dont happen?

[applegrove]

32. When they do they go to prison.

[msongs]

4. been going on there for 3K years with one group and another nt

[Eko]

8. Yup.

[RockRaven]

9. If I were to write a post about a party who has bombed civilians, kidnapped innocents, & murdered

non-combatants in a targeted fashion... Anyone responding to such a post who was sure they knew who I was referring to would be bringing a lot of their own baggage to that response.

[Eko]

11. Very true.

I have no idea who you are talking about.
Eko.

[anciano]

10. Granted that it is a sad situation.....

but it's not our problem that they refuse to live in peace with respect for each other.

[Eko]

12. The world is a very connected place.

What may not seem like our problem today may become one tomorrow. Also, there are those innocents that are being killed on both sides and with a little bit of our very big political and military might maybe we can lesson it or stop it somehow?

[anciano]

13. I agree that the world is a connected place,

but I don't believe that we should send our sons and daughters to die for anyone, anywhere. Period. Those folks' hatred for each other caused this situation. They made this toy, so let them play with it.
PS I am a veteran.

[Eko]

15. Well, I respect your opinion.

But I think us joining WW2 was a pretty good thing for us to do. So,,, regardless what branch? I grew up in a very military town, took njrotc in high school and am fairly well knowledgeable of military history and people. Friends with seals and swift boaters as well as a couple of past that is the best way to describe them lol. That being said the middle and late 2000's were pretty hard with people I knew or dealt with that were killed or injured. I remember the wheel chairs and crutches and dogs named for those lost and,, well. Past that. I dont know war but I saw what it did. I felt it.
EKo.
Keep on keeponing.

[Eko]

23. I would say first of all, quit looking at it from a western side. That would be a great start.

From a western side there is no discourse. After that do those people who do live there not deserve a say in their governance? Do they not get the chance to succeed or fail in their chosen governance? Do they not get to choose their destiny? Or should they be stuck hemmed in on either side with no free movement to other countries, limited access to electricity and water, trade, and goods. How can anyone expect a peaceful existence with such conditions. I would not stand for that. Would you? Increase the standard of living and things would improve but they don't want to do that. Its a holy war. No quarter given.
Eko.

[Cheezoholic]

24. Lets not forget the entire shit show in the Middle East is the direct result of Fascist maniacs

playing the race card to achieve power and then acting on it. One more reason, as if there's not enough already, to shut these fuckers down everywhere.

[Bear Creek]

25. The man

Who worked to create Israel after wwll did not want to establish it there. The Christians worked to put it there. They thought it would bring christ 2nd coming. Both sides of this conflict are not innocent. I read somewhere that the dna of the jews and the palestinians are the same the only thing that is between them is the religions. The timing of this outburst is suspicious and who is really benefiting from this? My best guess is Putin. Jimmy Carter’s book, Palestine Peace Not Apartheid is an excellent source and would highly recommend reading it.

[Eko]

27. If I had to get all conspiratorial

I would say its Bibi. His nation is rebelling against his court actions and what a better way than to unite them than to have an external enemy. I would put the chances of that at being at 10% though. Still,,,,,,,,,,,,

[Bear Creek]

34. Always works

Oldest game in the books.

[BootinUp]

33. kick