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Democrats_win

(6,539 posts)
Mon Sep 19, 2016, 12:26 PM Sep 2016

Should Introductory History courses start at 50 years ago?

For today's children the most recent 50 years have been quite consequential to their future so why not start there?

The rise of Neoliberalism, the foolish wars in the Middle east, the hate-government movement, America's wars in Latin America and of course racist Ronald Reagan, would have a terrible effect on the world we are now living in. These events made college costs a terrible millstone around the necks of our children and they put our government in the hands of corporations while driving fears of terrorism--caused by our wars--and hatred of immigrants.

When I took my first history course in 1978 as an eighth grader, there had been some big events in the pervious 50 years. Of course the dropping of the first atomic bomb was consequential to anyone's future. The civil rights movement was a very positive big deal, as was, sadly, the white response. Yet I don't feel that those years before 1978 were nearly as consequential as the massive mistakes that America would make in the next 38 years. The foolishness of the past 38 years and the continuing foolishness of the so-called Conservatives, makes recent history so very consequential. (National suicide, especially suicide by the middle class in the name of racism is a BFD.)

Following lessons on the 50-year recent history that totally screwed up our country, history classes can go back to whatever beginning they usually use. Then the students can learn about the ancient idea that, "we are the government." How quaint.

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Should Introductory History courses start at 50 years ago? (Original Post) Democrats_win Sep 2016 OP
No, because such provides much too little perspective. elleng Sep 2016 #1
I second this answer sinkingfeeling Sep 2016 #2
I'd say 2000 years is too short, also Warpy Sep 2016 #3
Of COURSE it's too short, elleng Sep 2016 #4
They didn't know much about it back in the Dark Ages of the 50s and 60s Warpy Sep 2016 #5
Not a chance. FBaggins Sep 2016 #6
definitely need more recent history. no nam shit til i was at art school. pansypoo53219 Sep 2016 #7
A huge portion of college debt is because states cut back on funding. Igel Sep 2016 #8

elleng

(135,843 posts)
1. No, because such provides much too little perspective.
Mon Sep 19, 2016, 12:39 PM
Sep 2016

Maybe a series: WORLD history from 2016 years ago >>> forward to U.S. history.

Warpy

(113,130 posts)
3. I'd say 2000 years is too short, also
Mon Sep 19, 2016, 02:14 PM
Sep 2016

All the good stuff seems to have happened in the mid to upper Paleolithic. The Mesolithic is rather a blur since most sites were destroyed as sea levels rose and the Paleolithic is when they learned how to farm and WORK was invented, along with ownership.

However much paleo history is instructive on the effects of climate change and overpopulation, it's probably too much to hit fourth graders with (the year I got hit with Bowdlerized history). However, it's still a good place to start. Starting with a fully developed Empire with a heavily trained military machine and thriving slave trade is starting too late. Learning how we got there is better.

elleng

(135,843 posts)
4. Of COURSE it's too short,
Mon Sep 19, 2016, 02:20 PM
Sep 2016

DO need understanding of pre- and early homo sapiens, even tho it was hardly touched on in my pretty good public education.

Warpy

(113,130 posts)
5. They didn't know much about it back in the Dark Ages of the 50s and 60s
Mon Sep 19, 2016, 02:44 PM
Sep 2016

Male archaeologists with male egos had focused exclusively on the groups of hunters killing mastodons with spears, something I'm sure only happened when they were really, really desperate for food since it was a lot more dangerous than ambushing a gazelle or waiting for the women to bring in 90% of their daily calories from foraging.

Recent research has been really fascinating stuff and it's a shame kids aren't taught that the world didn't pop into being with the various Mediterranean empires.

Igel

(36,038 posts)
8. A huge portion of college debt is because states cut back on funding.
Wed Sep 21, 2016, 06:32 PM
Sep 2016

California, for instance, spends very little money on ME wars or even wars in Latin America, and most of the immigration that does cost money is from Mexico (not a hotbed of civil war, at least not for a century).

Kansas, even less.

What states spend money on instead of post-secondary is K-12 education (much of which goes to SpEd); on Medicaid in its various avatars; on other entitlement programs. When times are good, they increase such programs, when times are tight they cut those and other programs. The result has been, for example, that UC has been squeezed roughly in bad times and seldom "made whole" in good times.

We can blame anti-government Prop 13, but the overall trend is in spite of that and far greater than that.

For a lot of the education funding increases we look to SCOTUS decisions. For others, we look at federal government priorities and local priorities.

We can argue about whether the nearly 1/5 of the federal budget that goes for the DOD is worth it. Nearly 1/2 of federal spending is for health or social security (with an additional amount for the various welfare programs).

For states, we have about a quarter going to K-12 education, over 15% going to Medicaid and similar programs, almost 15% for higher ed. But what we hear about is the 4% or so that goes to corrections, and how it's increased from nearly nothing to 4% (while K-12 spending has more than doubled from an already doughty figure ... remember 1% to 4% of a budget is a 300% increase, while 50% to 95% isn't even double and therefore must involve less actual money!).

As for student debt, much of what's owed is necessary. But I've seen more than one senior, upon receiving notice of monetary awards for their frosh year, discuss their apt., their new clothes, vehicle, etc., etc. ... very little of which has to do with education. Or they pass up in-state tuition at a solid school for out-of-state tuition at a school that's no better. They may bargain for Ivy League or Tier I in their "home" state because they're transplants from Louisiana or Alabama or California, but they pay for that without considering that the degree they want has a trivial Tier I or Ivy League bump in post-college income. I hear "I have $120k in debt" and fail to hear anything else: "I went to Yale and majored in basketweaving, dumb choice" or "I went to Yale and now my starting salary is $100k/year." None of the "I went to grad school to major in archeology, now I have a $30k/year job and am saddled not just with my tuition and living expenses, but also the cost of my two years in Greece." We hear partial info and assume we know it all.

Meanwhile, I did years of grad school and had far less debt than many with just a 4-year degree--heck, less than many with a 2-year degree. But I was in-state after the first year (which accounted for most of my debt), worked, lived very, very cheaply, dispensed with the car, and basically recognized that every dollar I borrowed would have to be repaid, over many years, at 3-4% interest. Every meal out I forewent had a return of 3%. Every dollar I earned had a rate of return of 3%, and given the amount I could have borrowed I'm still reaping that ghostlike interest to this day, after 7 years of nearly 0% interest. What a deal. Even somebody living on cheese and beans in a 250 sq ft apt. 3 miles from campus could appreciate it. Not a friend who ate out regularly, lived close to campus, had a car, and had an active night life ... and after dropping out of the grad program had many 10s of thousands of dollars in debt to whine about.

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