Hillary Clinton
Related: About this forumSanders' demands & the path forward - What if it were two men?
Last edited Fri Jun 17, 2016, 12:03 AM - Edit history (3)
This is kind of an expanded x-post from a reply I formed in GD-P, but honestly it's a point I've not seen brought up yet.
Pardon my girl-dar, but I'm catching a little whiff of less-than-equal treatment and paternalism in the media's treatment of Mr. Sanders and his behavior since the end of the Democratic primaries. It saddens me to my core to say this, but I have come to believe that Mr. Sanders would not be making demands of his victor if he had lost the same contest to a man, and more importantly; I do not believe the media or so many others would be entertaining it with any seriousness were the contest between two men.
The content of the demands Mr. Sanders is making of the party he so recently joined has been noted and addressed by the media as transparently self-oriented. That's fine, but what about the very fact that this man who lost, is now not only failing to concede graciously in accordance with all traditions of politics and basic sportsmanship to the female who bettered him, but also making demands targeted most pointedly at powerful women (and fewer men I notice) in the party?
When Mr. Trump mused that he may remove the chairman of the RNC if he won his party's nomination, the statement was treated rightly as vindictive and childish; a threat to act as a spiteful and belligerent winner. Mr. Sanders is the loser, not the winner, and yet he has not merely mused upon, but demanded the right to oust the powerful female chair of our party and install his own choice.
Unless and until Mr. Sanders makes a gracious concession and changes his tone towards the nominee and the party he so recently hooked his wagon to, the Clinton campaign and the Democratic Party should quietly dismiss him. This is not an appeal merely out of reaction to discerned paternalism, but also a matter of respect for the voters, and the future of the party.
We should not set a precedent in this party whereby the runner-up gets to pick the platform, blame and subsequently oust the chair because they are mad about losing, and in short, demand that the party bend to the will of the losing campaign. This would make a mockery of voting. The voters choose a winner because they trust that winner and her/his vision to carry the party forward. The voters speak to endorse a leader who will shape the platform, the party organization, the process, and the Presidency. To cede leadership to the losing campaign is to disrespect the entire process and point of asking voters to make that choice.
That the winner of the process becomes the leader, that the victor chooses the path forward has never been a subject of question before, so why would it be now? On what basis might this man who lost feel entitled to dictate to women of power in this party what course they should take? I am a big believer in Occam's razor. Most often the obvious answer is in fact the correct one.
If someone can demonstrate an example of a time when Mr. Sanders lost to a man and behaved in a similar fashion I'm willing to look at it objectively and reconsider. We do have another example, curiously enough, of Mr. Sanders losing an election to a woman, and how he behaved then.
That Time Bernie Sanders Said He Was a Bigger Feminist Than His Female Opponent
Some of the parallels are rather stark and a bit disquieting.
The two-term governor who defeated Sanders endorses Hillary.
When Bernie Sanders ran against me in Vermont
Again, if someone can demonstrate Mr. Sanders showing this kind of pettish fractiousness following contests with men, I will happily give it fair reading.
Any parts or points of Mr. Sanders agenda should be brought forth as a request, not a demand, in the spirit of cooperation. The Democratic Party, with Hillary as the leader elected by the Democratic voters, should then decide what points to consider or adopt as she sees beneficial to the party and her campaign moving forward. It's obvious to many that the changes Mr. Sanders is demanding for the party he just recently and only "kind of" joined, are not-too-coincidentally exactly the ones he thinks would have allowed him to win. It seems rather self-serving because it is; but nonetheless it seems likely the campaigns will search for common ground.
There is room on the path forward for Mr. Sanders, but there must be no doubt that it is Secretary Clinton, at the behest of the voters of our party who has been chosen to make those decisions great and small that will guide our journey.
BobbyDrake
(2,542 posts)The system seems to fade out long link text.
spud_demon
(76 posts)The Sanders campaign warned them that the data was not secure. They did nothing (except attempt to punish the whistle-blower), and now Russian hackers have it. They even published the key strategy document.
There are other issues too. Rolling back Obama's unilateral campaign finance reforms, for example. Clinton may outspend Trump 5:1 in the coming campaign, but it won't matter, because the media covers Trump for free.
"DWS must go" is not a demand from the runner-up. It's a suggestion to improve the Party. There are other suggestions on the table too. Take them. They don't cost anything, and they can bring independent voters on board.
Her Sister
(6,444 posts)Obama's choice! The sitting President gets to choose the DNC Chair and then voted by DEMOCRATS!!!
So we talking about DEMOCRATIC PRESIDENT + DEMOCRATS!!! OKay!
BTW This is the HRC GROUP!
sheshe2
(87,252 posts)Maru Kitteh
(29,047 posts)Not the chair. Try to keep up.
Oh and fuck the idea of Independents being allowed to take control of the party. Everyone is invited to join the party. Everyone. But if the kids can't be bothered to RSVP, then they shouldn't act all shocked and amazed when the grownups who have to do the heavy lifting choose their menu items for them. They can join the party if they want a say in it, that simple.
sheshe2
(87,252 posts)They are thatta way. <<<
teamster633
(2,032 posts)DemonGoddess
(5,108 posts)I've been saying this all along. He would not be behaving in the way that he is, if HRC was a man.
Her Sister
(6,444 posts)More than some of us, well, talking about myself, never really wanted to know/learn. Cannot wait for the moment where I can forget it all.
yallerdawg
(16,104 posts)IF DU is in any way representative of the Democratic Party, we got LOTS of issues.
And I mean me in that we - I am as screwed up as anyone else!
But I'd like to be better.
Maru Kitteh
(29,047 posts)Last edited Thu Jun 16, 2016, 05:30 PM - Edit history (1)
We all have work to do, don't we? I know I do.
Thanks for your nice words.
shadowandblossom
(718 posts)this election has made some of them more visible to me. Nobody is immune to the culture we grow up in
CrowCityDem
(2,348 posts)We don't even need to consider a case of two men. We saw nearly the same scenario play out eight years ago, but with the roles reversed. Back then, Hillary was told to stand down, know her place, and get her voters to back the party. She did so.
Now that she's the winner, the loser is making demands, and the narrative has shifted to her needing to persuade Bernie's supporters over to our side. It's a complete flip from the precedent that was set.
What's the difference? Oh yeah, in both cases the woman is expected to make the men feel better.
Bernie can go suck a lemon if he doesn't want to be a responsible Democrat.
BlueMTexpat
(15,493 posts)Walk away
(9,494 posts)But I think Hillary is smart and tough enough to win this game in the end as well. Plus, she has a team behind her who all play hardball too. Bernie has been treated like a spoiled kid by the Democrats so far. He did exactly what Trump did and played on hatred, bigotry and greed to whip up millions of bitter white men (both of their biggest demographics).
He better make his deal and stick to it or he will be shut out and down.
Maru Kitteh
(29,047 posts)Last edited Thu Jun 16, 2016, 05:34 PM - Edit history (1)
Edited to add; it definitely smells like something, that's for sure.
Where are my clothespins?
BlueMTexpat
(15,493 posts)I too have said this more than once - although not nearly as well.
sheshe2
(87,252 posts)It is spot on.
Thanks, Maru~
Maru Kitteh
(29,047 posts)Cha
(305,118 posts)Maru Kitteh
(29,047 posts)You're Maru~
Thank you!
NastyRiffraff
(12,448 posts)You'll have to settle for just one though Bernie's misogyny is becoming more and more evident.
Maru Kitteh
(29,047 posts)I still can.
Think I'll do it tomorrow morning when a certain segment are usually sleeping in.
Surya Gayatri
(15,445 posts)shadowandblossom
(718 posts)Great insights and you said it all so eloquently. I think regardless of whether or not he would do the same with a man, his ridiculous behavior simply wouldn't be tolerated from outside and he would be laughed or shamed out of the room if he tried. But women are expected to appease men, she's won it but BS feels entitled to her massaging his ego. She won but the status quo as it is means his absurd entitlement is tolerated and the victor is encouraged to appease the Burned Out One (to borrow someone else's pet name).
Maybe he ought to try eating more fiber because he seems to be full of something.
sarae
(3,284 posts)I