White smoke, Black pope? Genealogist says Leo XIV has Louisiana African roots

[pnwmom]

Last edited Thu May 8, 2025, 10:10 PM - Edit history (1)

Source: National Catholic Reporter

Louisiana Creole expert Jari Honora has traced Prevost's ancestry to the Black community of New Orleans. His maternal ancestors lived in the Crescent City before migrating to Chicago in the early 20th century, Honora said.

Leo XIV is not known to have publicly commented having African ancestry, which is part of a mixed heritage that also includes French, Italian and Spanish roots. According to the U.S. Census, Prevost's mother, the late Mildred Martinez, was the mixed-race daughter of Black property owners, the Haitian-born Joseph Martinez and New Orleans native Louise Baquié, a Creole.

As such, Leo XIV could be considered the first Black pope in the history of the Catholic Church, though it is unclear how he identifies racially.

"It's more complicated than that," Honora told Black Catholic Messenger. "I think that a person can be of Black ancestry or have Black roots, but to identify as Black, I think, is all about the lived experience."

Read more: https://www.ncronline.org/news/white-smoke-black-pope-genealogist-says-leo-xiv-has-louisiana-african-roots

---

From the NY Times;

Lolita Villavasso Cherrie, a co-founder with Mr. Honora of The Creole Genealogical and Historical Association, said that the research appeared to signal a tremendous moment for the history of Louisiana Creoles, if a branch of the pope’s family tree indeed stretched back to New Orleans.

“It would be so fabulous to have someone who has some connection to our people, who give us the recognition we deserve,” said Ms. Villavasso Cherrie, 79, a retired teacher. “I hate to say it, but we feel, many of us, that our history was hidden from us.”

That is in part, she said, because many Creoles have been able to “pass” as white over the years. It was only with the advent of the internet, she said, that many people began to research their family history and became aware of their Creole roots.

Ms. Villavasso Cherrie noted that in the 20th century, a significant number of Louisiana Creoles migrated to the Chicago area and California.

https://www.nytimes.com/2025/05/08/us/pope-leo-creole-new-orleans.html

[JustAnotherGen]

1. I wonder

If they moved to pass?

I have a diverse background but no one would look at me and say "White lady".

[stopdiggin]

2. yep. tread lightly here.

having 'some ancestry' is clearly not the same thing as 'identifying' or 'claiming'.
And I have no doubt that people will ignore that and make this into their own version or narrative. But I am also confident that this admirable and accomplished person is perfectly capable of claiming (and articulating) his own 'identity'.
( probably something along the lines of 'human' )

[pnwmom]

4. The article makes that clear. But the Church publicly announced this geneology right after the Conclave,

so that tells me he IS claiming this. Good for him.

[Ms. Toad]

8. He does not appear to have discussed his ancestry publicly -

notwithstanding anything others have said about him.

It’s unclear whether the new pope, who took the name Leo XIV, has ever addressed his ancestry in public, interviews or his writings.

https://archive.li/fazbR#selection-743.0-743.132

Martinez’s descent has been widely reported as Spanish, and Pope Leo XIV does not appear to have made major public statements regarding Creole heritage

https://www.forbes.com/sites/nicholasreimann/2025/05/08/pope-leo-xivs-ancestry-celebrated-congressman-genealogist-tout-possible-creole-black-roots/

All of the reports I have seen are traced to the genealogist, not the church (but, again, the church making a statement is not the same as the Pope claiming it). And genealogy is different from lived experience. My guess is that he would be very cautious about claiming an experience he did not live, based on his geneology.

[pnwmom]

12. There are documents backing up the genealogist's findings, which he posted online.

And the Black Catholics I know are thrilled about this discovery. I don't think any of them would think he was "claiming an experience he did not live." They know why many people decided to "pass," once they moved out of a Black neighborhood.

The maternal side of Pope Leo XIV’s family can be traced back to at least the 1840s among “free people of color” in New Orleans, according to Jari C. Honora, a genealogist with the Historic New Orleans Collection, a research center documenting the city’s history.

Rep. Troy Carter, D-La., who represents New Orleans, also released a statement Thursday highlighting Pope Leo XIV’s “ancestral ties to our Creole and Haitian families,” saying he was proud “As a Black man” and “a proud son of New Orleans.”

Pope Leo XIV’s maternal grandparents, along with his mother’s older siblings, were “identified in records as Black or mulatto,” Honora told Forbes, but the family “passed … into a white racial identity” when they relocated to Chicago, where the pope’s mother—Mildred Martinez—was born in 1912.

. . . . Honora said in a Facebook post Thursday “Our Holy Father, Pope Leo XIV, has Creole of color roots from New Orleans on his mother's side!” He told The Times-Picayune a marriage license shows Joseph Martinez and Louise Baquié, the pope’s grandparents, married in 1887 at Our Lady of Sacred Heart church in New Orleans. Those records show Joseph Martinez listed Haiti as his birthplace, Honora told the newspaper. He added the family was listed as living at 1933 North Prieur St. in the city’s Seventh Ward, an area that was demolished during the construction of the Claiborne Avenue overpass, which critics say significantly disrupted vibrant Black neighborhoods in the city.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/nicholasreimann/2025/05/08/pope-leo-xivs-ancestry-celebrated-congressman-genealogist-tout-possible-creole-black-roots/

Honora tracked down a marriage license that showed the Pope's maternal grandparents, Joseph Martinez and Louise Baquié, were wed at Our Lady of Sacred Heart on Annette Street in 1887. Joseph Martinez claimed Haiti as his birthplace, Honora said, "which could very much be true, given the back-and-forth that has always existed between New Orleans and Haiti. Or he could have deeper New Orleans roots. (I'm) still working on that."

During the 1900 U.S. census, the couple was listed as residing at 1933 North Prieur Street, a site later demolished due to the construction of the Claiborne Avenue overpass. They were also described as Black, and Joseph Martinez was said to have an occupation as a cigar maker.
About 10 years later, the family moved to Chicago, where the pope's mother was born.

"Martinez's older brothers and sisters were all born in New Orleans, in the 7th Ward," Honora said. "They moved to Chicago between 1910 and 1912, and like so many Louisiana families, they shifted their racial identity. They moved to a big metropolis and go about what people assume you are."

https://www.nola.com/news/first-american-pope-roots-new-orleans/article_3c7bfdf1-8f69-452e-af01-90aa012366df.html#tncms-source=featured-top

[stopdiggin]

15. and you prove my point ...

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

[pnwmom]

16. I said: "I don't think any of them would think he was "claiming an experience he did not live."

How does that prove your point?

He does have the experience of having lived as a man with Black ancestry, whether or not he's discussed it in public.

Just as my father had the experience of having lived as a gay man for decades, before he ever discussed it in public.

You don't have to be "out" to have a lived experience.

[stopdiggin]

20. and yet you seem to be very insistent ?

(and authoritative?) in speaking for his experience ....

[Ms. Toad]

21. I wasn't disputing his ancestry.

But there is a difference between a genealogist tracing his family roots and finding black/Creole ancestors, and him claiming to be black.

I have a Jewish ancestor, which was discovered through genealogical research. She happens to be in my paternal line, but even if she was in my maternal line I would not claim to be Jewish. To do so would feel like appropriating an identity which carries with it a cultural experience I did not have.

Your post focused on his claims - and no one, that I has found, had claimed that he has publicly claimed to be black/Creole.

Ancestry is a matter of fact - and to use your example, it is far different to live as a gay man, without being out, than to have, for example, a gay grandfather.

And blacks being thrilled that he has grandparents who are black is far different from him claiming to be black.

[pnwmom]

23. But being Jewish has two meanings, and one is related to religious beliefs, so I wouldn't claim to be Jewish either,

even if I found some semitic ancestry.

But being Black isn't connected to a particular religion as far as I know.

I have never said he is claiming to be Black, but the Vatican did acknowledge his Black ancestry. There is a difference between claiming to be black and claiming or acknowledging one's Black ancestors. After that it's up to how each of us responds to that.

[Ms. Toad]

24. You conflated a description of his ancestry by others

Into a claim by him that he was the first black pope.

From your initial caption:

White smoke, Black pope? Genealogist says Leo XIV has Louisiana African roots

And from the article in that post:

As such, Leo XIV could be considered the first Black pope in the history of the Catholic Church, though it is unclear how he identifies racially.

And from the post I responded to:

The article makes that clear. But the Church publicly announced this geneology right after the Conclave, Yesterday so that tells me he IS claiming this. Good for him.

And my precise concern is that you are suggesting he claims something about his identity that he has not, from any report I have seen, claimed for himself.

I have absolutely no problem honoring what he says about his identity - should he choose to talk about it. The reason I responded is that you are putting words in his mouth about what he is claiming.

[pnwmom]

25. I didn't write most of those words. The National Catholic Reporter did.

When I said "claiming this" I was referring to the details in the article about his Black ancestry.

[Ms. Toad]

29. First, ancestry is factual. It exists, not something to be claimed or not.

Second, even so - I have not seen a single report of him "claiming" his ancestry - as you are suggesting is what you meant.

And, third, your caption mentioned a black pope.

Another poster suggested you should

"tread lightly here. Having 'some ancestry' is clearly not the same thing as 'identifying' or 'claiming'. be careful"

- and in response, you said you were glad he was claiming it. It is hard to interpret that as anything other than indicating he is claiming being the black pope.

[pnwmom]

31. It wasn't my caption. It was the article's title. nt

[stopdiggin]

32. "glad he is claiming it" ...

when, by all accounts, it appears that this is not the case.
This would appear to be a narrative that is being pushed by others - as opposed to either church or pontiff himself. And that is why the post garnered advice for 'caution'.

[Solly Mack]

3. ...

[Clouds Passing]

5. That is so cool.

[elleng]

6. Better every minute!!!

New Pope Has Creole Roots in New Orleans, Genealogist Says
Robert Prevost’s maternal grandparents were married near the French Quarter and later moved to Chicago, where his mother was born, records show.

https://www.nytimes.com/2025/05/08/us/pope-leo-creole-new-orleans.html

[pnwmom]

7. LOL, I had just added that to the OP. And I agree -- better yet!

[Bernardo de La Paz]

9. Frankly, since Obama, such analysis of ancestry seem ultimately counter productive beyond saying

"mixed", which is what most Americans are. Even neo-nazi white supremacists are routinely found to have some mixtures.

I think we get beyond race analysis by mostly ignoring it.

Dinosaurs are obsessed by heritage. Real humans are more focused on evolving forward by letting people fall in love with people. DEI and such stuff have some use as remediation: helping people with a leg up, not propping up. The sooner it is not needed the better.

Be the change you want.

[CTyankee]

22. I even wonder why this is a topic of our conversation.

He demonstrates who he is.

Given that, why should we even care?

[mzmolly]

10. More to love about

Pope Leo.

[Cha]

13. TY! I Discovered that myself when I Searched for

Pope Leo XIV's Heritage and I posted it on a Thread.. Fascinating.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=20303449

Mahalo for Posting this, pnwmom! A lot more information and history..

I've never been interested in a Pope before but here we are.

[artemisia1]

14. The significance of this is that it means the hideous "One Drop" doctrine is dead in European Catholicism. /nt

[BaronChocula]

17. Clickbait headline

Black pope? Yeah. No.

But I find him impressive with what I know thus far.

[pnwmom]

18. 2 out of 4 grandparents were Black, by the Census records. That would be more than any Pope in history,

and enough for many people to consider themselves Black.

[Kid Berwyn]

19. Cool

Shows how each human being is amazing and unique.

[FSogol]

26. The 1st black pope, Pope Victor I, served from 189 to 199 A.D.. He was from North Africa & is depicted in paintings as

African.

[SARose]

27. A mongrel American just like me!

When you live in a foreign country and you are sitting in a cafe you can spot an American 50 yards away. We don’t look like Europeans, Africans, Arabs, SE Asians, Koreans or whatever.

We look like American mongrels. 🤣 Got her wavy hair from her African ancestors; her green eyes from her Irish ancestors; and her height from her Japanese ancestors.

This is what makes him an American Pope. He looks like an American; not an Italian; not an African; not a Filipino - an American.

[TexLaProgressive]

28. We with Louisiana roots all have African genes

If we are honest. It used to be LA law that anyone with 1/32 blood was marked Negro on birth certificates. This came because a judge's wife was 1/32. I forget but anthropologists or some other scientists showed where all us Louisianan were 1/32 or more. So that law was squashed.

Of course this race crap is just that a load of stinking crap. There is one race of humans the human race.

I wish I had some more melanin so I wouldn't be at such risk for skin cancer. I see the dermatologist tomorrow.

[ms liberty]

30. I'm more interested in the Prevost side

My husband's maternal grandfather's mother was a Prevost.