U.S. Navy makes history by launching its first coed submarine: "Breaking barriers"
Source: CBS News
Updated on: September 16, 2024 / 9:18 AM EDT
The United States Navy commissioned its first coed submarine on Saturday, in a ceremonial event that the vessel's commander called "a truly historic moment."
"Today, we commissioned our ship, and she is the fastest, most advanced, fully integrated fast-attack to date," said Cmdr. Steve Halle, the commanding officer of the USS New Jersey. "Our superior professionalism is enhanced by our crew integration and our diversity," Halle continued as he spoke about his crew being the first to be fully integrated on a fast-attack submarine.
The ceremony marked the conclusion of a years-long process to commission the USS New Jersey, which is the third Navy ship named after the U.S. state, succeeding the BB-62 battleship that sailed in World War II, the Korean War and the Vietnam War, according to the Navy. The event for the fast-attack submarine took place at Naval Weapons Station Earle in Middletown, New Jersey, the military branch said.
"USS New Jersey (SSN 796) is now commissioned and ready for service!" the Navy said in a social media post unveiling the sub. "The Navy's latest Virginia-class submarine joins the fleet." In a video accompanying that post, the Navy described the USS New Jersey as the "first fully integrated submarine built for male and female sailors" in the history of submarines, which stretches back roughly a century. It said the vessel is "a symbol of progress" that is "breaking barriers as it protects our shores."
Read more: https://www.cbsnews.com/news/us-navy-first-coed-submarine-uss-new-jersey/
Traildogbob
(9,607 posts)Much different from my destroyer days in the early 70s
Rock on women!!!!👏👏
Think. Again.
(15,600 posts)...how the construction of this submarine is different because it will carry males and females.
I honestly didn't know they had been building subs differently for males and females in the first place.
stumpysbear
(195 posts)They haven't been building subs differently for males and females...there just haven't been any females on subs.
Think. Again.
(15,600 posts)stumpysbear
(195 posts)Think. Again.
(15,600 posts)yagotme
(3,717 posts)roughly half of the crew is probably not even drinking age. A decent amount of those, are a year or less out of high school. So, yes, there are going to be "hijinks".
Think. Again.
(15,600 posts)yagotme
(3,717 posts)The worst, yes, but not the only. Pregnancies. Fights/jealousy. Missing from duty to "polish the torpedo". Inappropriate comments. Remember, we're talking about a bunch of teenagers crowded into a small area, and not a lot of freedom of movement on a sub. BOTH sexes can get into trouble in this type of situation.
Think. Again.
(15,600 posts)I was always under the impression the military taught discipline.
yagotme
(3,717 posts)but practice finishes up the course. Asking a teenager to control hormonal impulses can be done, but you don't always get success. Putting coed teenagers together, in a highly restricted space, can cause problems where a larger space wouldn't cause as much friction. And , on a sub, you may be submerged for quite some time, and no port call. Imaging living at work for a few months, no new people, same ones over and over, no windows, no sunshine, no going outside, unless it's for a few moments, standing just on the sidewalk, with nothing to look at but water, doing the same thing over and over. Don't even get to order out. You get whatever the cook decides to make that day, or snacks from the commissary.
Think. Again.
(15,600 posts)...more selective in their hiring for those jobs.
yagotme
(3,717 posts)under the conditions I stated, until you actually put them under those conditions. That's why there is a Uniform Code of Military Justice (UCMJ) that is the "law" for the military. Think US Code. Violations of the law are numerically listed, such as Article 86 is for unauthorized absence, IIRC correctly.
Think. Again.
(15,600 posts)...that all of the difficulties you mentioned would be avoided with mature crew members.
Not necessarily older crew members but more mature crew members.
Pandering to imbeciles by designing ships around their immaturity sounds like they actually want foolish military people.
yagotme
(3,717 posts)Out of xx graduating high schoolers, only yy will volunteer. Out of those volunteers, only zz will actually make it through "boot camp", the physical and mental tests failing some. Then schooling, where a couple more will fail. Then, to the duty station. A couple more will fail, but by this point, to get out, it must be something of a more spectacular failure, as it will involve the UCMJ. The armed forces needs a certain amount of bodies every year, and the amount they're getting now is behind what is needed, as I have heard. Now, unless you want to make military service mandatory, and only the most brightest and most mature will be drafted, we're stuck with the current program.
Think. Again.
(15,600 posts)...by far, and we are in no wars or even war zones.
I highly doubt the military NEEDS a "certain amount" of.. wait for it..."bodies".
yagotme
(3,717 posts)Also called "bodies". "How many bodies showed up for PT this morning?" This is not an offensive description for anyone that served. We know the meaning of it. What happens if we decide to downsize the military, reduce active units, etc.? If war DOES break out (like a sneak attack), we will be MONTHS getting our numbers up to where they should be. EVERY TIME we have gone to war, our military was not prepared, usually in more than one way. Keeping members on active duty, having those slots filled, allows us to absorb an attack, and have the ability to stave off the enemy while we build up more forces. Look at ANY military that has fought in the last 100+ years. Always needed more at the end than they did at the beginning. And, new troops are not nearly as effective in battle than more experienced ones. Having a minimal active force, to be quickly (and probably, poorly) trained green troops to fill out the ranks, is a disaster waiting to be called upon.
Think. Again.
(15,600 posts)...our military is an extremely lucrative boondoggle for connected military contractor fatcats.
THAT is why it is so over-sized, costly, and bloated, in every way.
XorXor
(676 posts)Think. Again.
(15,600 posts)...building and maintaining the most effective, efficient, and prepared defensive forces.
The sale of unneccesary and grossly overpriced military contracts to the highest bribe-bidder would not be happening.
XorXor
(676 posts)Anything specific?
Think. Again.
(15,600 posts)pfitz59
(10,731 posts)'Fraternization' is a bigger concern.
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(15,600 posts)jimfields33
(17,978 posts)Heck you cant even fraternize with your supervisor. Its a huge no-no regardless of rank.
Think. Again.
(15,600 posts)jimfields33
(17,978 posts)Think. Again.
(15,600 posts)jimfields33
(17,978 posts)You seem to think this only occurs in the military. In the civilian world, you cant sleep around with the boss. Weve seen many careers destroyed for being dumb. It happens in politics, education, law firms, and every career imagined.
Think. Again.
(15,600 posts)...I thought the new designs were just about separating male and female crew members for some reason.
sarisataka
(20,332 posts)Put women on current submarines and get criticized for not accommodating to let the women have some privacy for changing, showering or going to the bathroom.
Put in accommodations, "it's only needed because all men are rapists"
I suppose they could send out a submarine with an all-female crew. What would the objection be then?
Think. Again.
(15,600 posts)Didn't they recently have a coed crew in the space station?
IronLionZion
(46,683 posts)and there are jokes about what they must be doing while stuck in space
Think. Again.
(15,600 posts)IronLionZion
(46,683 posts)IronLionZion
(46,683 posts)There are at least 4 US Navy submarines with women aboard. OP is notable because the sub was built with separate facilities.
All of these things are more possible during Democratic administrations than Republican of course.
Semper Fortis
NutmegYankee
(16,282 posts)They were just ship alterations performed long after the submarine was built.
Polybius
(16,870 posts)Might not be the best idea.
Think. Again.
(15,600 posts)Polybius
(16,870 posts)Hell, I'd be at my local gym 7 days a week.15 minutes working out, 45 minutes in the shower.
Think. Again.
(15,600 posts)It's normal to be attracted to situations that are pure fantasy. My gym isn't going co-ed for its showers.
Think. Again.
(15,600 posts)Polybius
(16,870 posts)Talk to you tomorrow.
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(15,600 posts)sboatcar
(519 posts)Thanks a lot Tim Walz!
lol
Think. Again.
(15,600 posts)Thank goodnesS they spent billions re-disigning the ships so males don't have to see THOSE THINGS!
jimfields33
(17,978 posts)In Minnesota, its the law. Its an inclusive way to reach each person who needs one. No need for jokes.
Think. Again.
(15,600 posts)NutmegYankee
(16,282 posts)The changes were fairly minor.
Think. Again.
(15,600 posts)...I guess it's about time they gave everyone a little space.
NutmegYankee
(16,282 posts)Women had served as officers previously, but long after the ship was commissioned. New Jersey is just the first Sub to have women on the crew from day 1. It was interesting climbing around doing my engineering inspections and seeing women NCOs on board.
Think. Again.
(15,600 posts)quaint
(3,225 posts)It has lower valves and steps in front of triple-high bunk beds and stacked laundry machines.
These changes were made to accommodate the women who would join the Navy. In the past few years, the Navy has seen a growing number of female officers and enlisted sailors.
There are currently about 60,000 enlisted women in the Navy, and as of August, 730 were assigned to operational submarines.
MarineInsight
Think. Again.
(15,600 posts)quaint
(3,225 posts)I thought they shared bunk rooms, not bunks, but idk.
yagotme
(3,717 posts)"Sharing bunks" in the Navy is called "hot bunking". 2 or 3 sailors are assigned a specific bunk, they each work a different shift. 1 sleeping, 1 work, 1 off duty for 8 hour shift, 1 on and 1 off if 12 hour. (Didn't serve in Navy, but USMC. Know the concept, though.) Therefore, the bunk is always "hot".
Think. Again.
(15,600 posts)...I wonder why they needed to change that now.
Thanks!
yagotme
(3,717 posts)This is done pretty much on all smaller vessels (destroyers, etc.) as space is at a premium, and bunk areas take up space. The "change" now is to accommodate female sailors, to give them their own separate area. On an aircraft carrier, fairly easy peasey. Small vessels are more of a headache to accomplish this.
Think. Again.
(15,600 posts)yagotme
(3,717 posts)Low level enlisted are assigned a bunk. Sailors A, B, and C, are assigned bunk 1A. Sailor A works from 8-4. Sailor B works from 4-12. Sailor C works from 12-8. They are all assigned the same bunk, not individual ones. Therefore, there is always someone sleeping in bunk 1A. Mid level enlisted, I believe, are assigned individual bunks in a different area (NCO/SNCO). No one else uses their bunk. Top level NCO's, mid and high level officers are assigned rooms individually, or perhaps just doubled. RHIP (Rank has it's privileges). Hope this clears it up.
(The above info varies some from vessel to vessel, depending on size, etc.)
Think. Again.
(15,600 posts)...seperate bunks for people.
yagotme
(3,717 posts)Females will have their own areas, therefore, their own bunks. As in no male/female hot bunking. Hot bunking will be straight male/male, female/female. Perhaps this is where you are confused.
Think. Again.
(15,600 posts)...I didn't realize males and females couldn't sleep on a mattress someone of the opposite sex has previously slept on.
yagotme
(3,717 posts)Think. Again.
(15,600 posts)XorXor
(676 posts)For the showering, even if they only allowed the most polite, respectful, and mature males who would never look at or make a crass comment, a good number of women wouldn't want to be naked around men. There is probably a good number of men who might be uncomfortable being naked around women too. That's just how things are.
As for their bunk areas. They are out to sea for long periods of time. The act of masturbation is a thing that takes place. It's awkward enough with another dude (or woman, I suppose) in the bunk above you. Now imagine that happening with a male and female in the same area. Also, such close proximity might encourage totally consensual relations, but that could lead to pregnancies and also bickering amongst sailors. That is just an issue with humans regardless of age.
Think. Again.
(15,600 posts)XorXor
(676 posts)Think. Again.
(15,600 posts)XorXor
(676 posts)If so, I am curious to hear your reasoning.
Think. Again.
(15,600 posts)By replying "B.S." to a statement, I am making it clear that I believe the statement was "B.S."
Does that help at all?
XorXor
(676 posts)I'm also trying make sure I'm understanding what you disagree with so that we can discuss it further (or not). For example, do you find the part about some males and females being uncomfortable to be nude around the opposite sex to be bullshit? Is that similar about certain "private functions" being carried out in the presence of the opposite sex? Do you find it bothersome that I'm curious to understand your viewpoint in more detail?
Polybius
(16,870 posts)I get those who are mechanics, but what else?
maxrandb
(15,742 posts)all the time. That way, of a real war comes, we're prepared.
pfitz59
(10,731 posts)Means sleeping in shifts in a shared bunk. 'Showering together' wasn't a thing. The shower on my sub was the size of a telephone booth, and we each had about 30 seconds to shower. (Rationed water.)
Think. Again.
(15,600 posts)It doesn't sound like there's any separation needed if everyone gets to sleep and shower alone.
Angleae
(4,616 posts)You're never alone in there.
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(15,600 posts)Angleae
(4,616 posts)More likely, the one room is changed to 2 rooms.
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(15,600 posts)Gore1FL
(21,623 posts)Gruenemann
(1,022 posts)Submarine races...
Prairie Gates
(2,181 posts)Torchlight
(4,118 posts)but it does move, however slowly.
I think this is a (not the, but a) good leading indicator of tomorrow's obligations we've chosen to take seriously today.
Think. Again.
(15,600 posts)...because naked bodies are scary.
yagotme
(3,717 posts)Think. Again.
(15,600 posts)yagotme
(3,717 posts)As there were no females in front line active duty posts.
Think. Again.
(15,600 posts)...but we don't bother preventing unmarried same sex relations in our new subs either, just unmarried heterosexual relations.
yagotme
(3,717 posts)Unmarried heterosexual relations:
https://www.militaryjusticeattorneys.com/blog/2019/september/understanding-article-134-ucmj-extramarital-sexu/
https://ucmjdefense.com/article-134-ucmj-extramarital-sexual-conduct-adultery.html
If "we don't bother preventing", it's on the commander. There IS a UCMJ charge for it. Both types fall under it.
Think. Again.
(15,600 posts).... if the separation of sleeping quarters and showers by male and female isn't aimed at only preventing heterosexual relations while still allowing for same-sex relations, why did they do it?
I'm getting even more confused about this new sub.
yagotme
(3,717 posts)Easy to separate by sex. Sexual preference, not so much.
Think. Again.
(15,600 posts)I wonder why they don't just do that with male-female relations?
Sure would be more cost effective than building new subs with segregation units.
yagotme
(3,717 posts)If the goal is saving money, of course. Perhaps females don't like disrobing/showering in front of males? Or, does the desires of the females have no impact on your opinion? They are the ones that have to serve there. They should have SOME say in berthing arrangements...
Think. Again.
(15,600 posts)...undress or shower in front of someone of the same sex?
yagotme
(3,717 posts)If you don't like showering in front of ANYBODY, then don't join the military. Boot camp, we had about 1/2 hour to SSS. Sh*t, shower, shave. Roughly 65-70 in platoon. In shower, had shower columns, 6 heads to a column. If you wanted to get done (we ALL did, or else...) it wasn't uncommon to be stacked about 8 deep around each column, because there wasn't one for everybody.
Think. Again.
(15,600 posts)....THAT'S why adults can't act like adults. Got it!
yagotme
(3,717 posts)Have a nice remainder of your day.
Think. Again.
(15,600 posts)Torchlight
(4,118 posts)But it's a cool bumper sticker.
maxrandb
(15,742 posts)Last edited Mon Sep 16, 2024, 08:01 PM - Edit history (1)
People really need to grow up.
We had absolutely no illusions. We knew full well that if you put young men and women together on a ship, some were eventually going to get around to schtooping each other, and yes you can do it in a coffin locker, BTW.
Anyway, just like anything in the military, we rely on the leadership to lead, and set the standard for acceptable behavior.
Violations to this policy were no different than violations to underage drinking, unauthorized absence, fraud, or any other UCMJ violation encountered on single gender ships.
We welcomed women to these roles in the Navy, and we are a better force today because of it.
yagotme
(3,717 posts)Or words to that effect...
Think. Again.
(15,600 posts)Think. Again.
(15,600 posts)Building entirely new subs with modifications to avoid this stuff seems ludicrous, will crew members get to choose paint color next?
pfitz59
(10,731 posts)"100 sailors go to sea, and 50 couples return." This in the days before females were allowed on board. There will be folk having sex. There might even be a rape (especially on drunken liberty.) Overall, it will work because folk are trained to do their job, and they will be too busy most days to entertain more thoughts than working, eating and sleeping.
Gore1FL
(21,623 posts)Aristus
(67,613 posts)Our barracks were segregated by gender. There were no instances of rape or fraternization. But the hotels and motels just outside the post were at full capacity on the weekends with couples relieving the stress of the week.
Bavorskoami
(125 posts)Getting off base on weekends are not a thing on a two or three month underwater patrol.
Aristus
(67,613 posts)But submariners are selected and trained based on their capacity for discipline, obedience, and mission-first outlook.
I trust they will do the right thing.
LastLiberal in PalmSprings
(12,790 posts)You'll be able to identify them by wheelchair-wide aisles, the handicapped symbol on the sail, and "Handicapped Mooring Only - Minimum Fine $25,000" signs on piers.