Pope Francis calls choice between Trump and Harris a choice between 'lesser evils'
Source: CNBC
Pope Francis tells US Catholics their choice is between whichever they think is the 'lesser evil'.
Asked about the U.S. presidential election on his flight back to Rome from Singapore, the pope said not welcoming migrants is a "grave" sin, and likened having an abortion to an "assassination".
On Friday, Francis said both candidates' policies are "against life. "Whether it is the one who is chasing away migrants, or the one who that kills children," said the pope. "Both are against life."
Read more: https://www.cnbc.com/2024/09/14/pope-criticizes-harris-and-trump-tells-us-catholics-to-choose-lesser-evil.html
IMO this is rich coming from the church that sheltered pedos and made all Nice-Nice with Hitler while he put priests in concentration camps.
What a shame, that even a Pope hailed as being progressive will not stand against evil. BTW, God condones abortion as a test of infidelity in Numbers 5:11-31. Tells you how to administer it and everything.
(Edit) I also find it disappointing that a Jesuit would chose to equivocate in this way instead of speaking against fascism.
Clouds Passing
(1,039 posts)Many mothers with unwanted children abuse and severely neglect them. This perpetuates misogyny and violence. I dont doubt the Pope and Catholic Church are well aware of that.
ArkansasDemocrat1
(2,602 posts)They sold me to a "deserving family". Lots of lies from the nuns according to Mom. She didn't know they'd trafficked me, the Nuns told her my birth mother abandoned me the day I was born.
https://theconversation.com/the-stolen-babies-trial-in-spain-finally-shines-a-light-on-a-scandal-that-cannot-be-forgotten-99860
Clouds Passing
(1,039 posts)ArkansasDemocrat1
(2,602 posts)Still wonder if I can find my birth family. Spain hasn't even made a DNA database to reunite families.
Clouds Passing
(1,039 posts)Yes, what a long strange trip it has been.
Karma13612
(4,641 posts)ArkansasDemocrat1
(2,602 posts)Maybe there is a way to find relations there?
wnylib
(23,645 posts)I don't know how international they are, but perhaps Spain has similar DNA genealogy groups. Many adoptees have located their biological families that way.
ArkansasDemocrat1
(2,602 posts)Nothing closer than 3rd cousin 😞
wnylib
(23,645 posts)He or she might have helpful family information.
I grew up with my biological family and heard the names of my great-grandparents and great-great grandparents in family stories. So, on a genealogy surname message board, I recognized the names in someone else's post. I responded to that post and the poster and I discovered that we are 3rd cousins. He sent me a photo of our great-great grandparents which no one in my family had seen. I forwarded it to my uncle who was very pleased to get it. He immediately saw a resemblance to his mother (my grandmother).
So 3rd cousins can have helpful info, even photos, of people we are looking for.
ArkansasDemocrat1
(2,602 posts)I'm hoping to get a ping on my Ancestry.
wnylib
(23,645 posts)carpetbagger
(4,476 posts)I've found a few families over the years. My sister and I were both adopted, and I've found families for a number of other people. I find that searching trees (if you're a paid subscriber) for common ancestors is really helpful. You find an ancestor (a couple who you're related to through multiple children of the couple), then trace the descent of the family. Sometimes you find a branch that goes physically close to home, that's a hint, sometimes not. But if you find two branches that have a single common descendant but are otherwise unrelated, you've just gotten closer.
I'm busy as hell these days, but I will likely be retiring in 6 months. Feel free to DM me now or in the future, I can help out as I'm able.
ArkansasDemocrat1
(2,602 posts)Karma13612
(4,641 posts)Meaningful even if you dont make connections.
LaMouffette
(2,200 posts)(The Learning Channel), and they reunite adopted children searching for their birth parents/family and birth parents looking for the children they gave up for adoption. I googled "How do I contact the show Long Lost Family?" and found this email address:
longlostfamilyusa@gmail.com
Be sure to use your due diligence and verify that this is a legitimate email address (there are websites online that can do that for free) before writing to them. You can go to the show's website, too, to look for the email address to contact them.
I hope that you have enjoyed a wonderful life filled with love, despite having this horrifying event happen to you as a baby.
ArkansasDemocrat1
(2,602 posts)Response to Clouds Passing (Reply #1)
wnylib This message was self-deleted by its author.
wnylib
(23,645 posts)Also, their willingness to hide and protect the crime of raping children, leaving priests free to continue raping them, removes them from any moral authority on sexuality and reproduction.
The RC Concordat with Nazi Germany was appeasement that enabled the Nazi atrocities. But, at least there were members of the RC Church who had more courage than their leaders. Several nuns, priests, and RC lay persons risked their lives to shelter people who were targeted by Nazis or to smuggle them out to safe places with false IDs.
Clouds Passing
(1,039 posts)The basis for patriarchy is misogyny.
NotHardly
(1,108 posts)Gore1FL
(21,623 posts)Nasruddin
(798 posts)malthaussen
(17,519 posts)... the Catholic Church is so lucky to have such a huge choice among the Greater Goods.
-- Mal
LymphocyteLover
(6,236 posts)Gore1FL
(21,623 posts)I've never been a catholic.
LymphocyteLover
(6,236 posts)ShazzieB
(17,978 posts)Last edited Mon Sep 16, 2024, 12:45 PM - Edit history (1)
Not Catholic, and Francis seems less evil to me than many of his predecessors.
Not that I'm an expert on popes, by any means. But the last one, Benedict XVI, always seemed creepy af to me.
LymphocyteLover
(6,236 posts)ShazzieB
(17,978 posts)OhioTim
(278 posts)talking about evil
Justice matters.
(7,343 posts)... apparently the norm...
sarisataka
(20,332 posts)But we still get angry when they don't endorse our candidate.
BTW this thread is in violation of the SOP
yourout
(7,878 posts)It's the fact they're calling her evil.
sarisataka
(20,332 posts)And that is nothing new
He also said the rejection of immigrants is evil. The placing of that issue on the same level as abortion is something new.
As a point of facr, he did not call her "evil". He called the policies evil.
krkaufman
(13,613 posts)Using the government to actively cause harm to populations is not equivalent to saying the government should not be involved in the personal decision to carry a pregnancy to term. When government policy shifts to advocating for targeted abortions, Francis can cease shutting the f**k up.
sarisataka
(20,332 posts)Articles to be published within twelve hours of the post. This OP was over fourteen hours so should properly be in GD.
krkaufman
(13,613 posts)I see much of the criticism aimed at the ridiculous false equivalency in Francis' statement. It is patently ridiculous to equate a man promising violence for refugees and immigrants, as well as actively peddling hate with current real world consequences ... to a political candidate simply saying that the choice to carry a pregnancy to term should be between the persons directly involved and those with whom they counsel, and their god, if applicable.
Response to sarisataka (Reply #7)
ShazzieB This message was self-deleted by its author.
sarisataka
(20,332 posts)"News stories must have been published within the last 12 hours. Use the published title of the story as the title of the discussion thread."
The article was published Sat, Sep 14 2024v2:48 AM, OP is timestamped Sat Sep 14, 2024, 04:53 PM, 14 hours later.
Also the title of the OP is different from the article.
Unfortunately, there are few who volunteer to host the forums so thing do slip by
JI7
(90,088 posts)Freethinker65
(10,778 posts)If you are female and would prefer to possibly die from a high risk pregnancy, leaving your family without a "mom", that's your choice. If you are a rape or incest victim that would prefer to carry your assaulter's offspring to term, you can proceed.
Harris isn't proposing to take anything away from you. Harris even wants to expand the child tax credit and increase funds for education.
krkaufman
(13,613 posts)They are anti-abortion, anti-choice, pro-authoritarian.
2naSalit
(90,842 posts)In fancy pajamas would do well to stay in his lane.
AZ8theist
(6,134 posts)That is my ENTIRE VIEW of the Catholic Church.
The pope can go fuck himself. (and don't get me started on that sadist, Mother Teresa...)
One of the better debates on the Catholic Church:
https://www.reddit.com/r/Documentaries/comments/aq1x86/the_catholic_church_is_a_force_for_good_in_the/
ShazzieB
(17,978 posts)Last edited Mon Sep 16, 2024, 12:49 AM - Edit history (1)
I don't care what he thinks myself, but I'm not going to get too indignant about him answering a question that someone asked him.
2naSalit
(90,842 posts)Would have been, "No comment" because it's really none of his business.
Skittles
(157,002 posts)the very idea than anyone listens to such drivel is laughable
DallasNE
(7,507 posts)And representing an organization that has never had a non-white or woman as a Pope is really not in good standing to be sticking his nose in where it doesn't belong.
ShazzieB
(17,978 posts)I don't care what he thinks myself, but someone asked, and he answered. Big deal.
Karma13612
(4,641 posts)Good thing he isnt voting for our next President then.
But I know he is influential in the Catholic community.
FakeNoose
(34,738 posts)onetexan
(13,579 posts)slightlv
(3,722 posts)Many religions believe life begins at the first breath. I know of none, other than the evangelical, dominionist sects that believe a blastocyst is a fully formed human with a soul at conception. That's just plain dumb. They point to the scripture that says God knows you when you were formed as proof of their belief system. But there are other scriptures that refute that idea. The Bible is made up of stories from all over the Middle East at the time. You can't study it without studying the culture and environment from which it comes. Dumb **its.
Nearly every religion has a belief system in when life begins or why it ends, especially when it ends early. Personally, my belief is that any "life" aborted or miscarried is a soul who did not need the birth and lifetime experience to escape the Wheel of Transmigration. To condemn that would to birth and a lifetime of old lessons is sacrilege. I feel just as strongly about this as they do about their blastocyst. So why is MY belief less than theirs? I hold just as strongly to it!
Pope Francis is as good a pope as I think you get with the Catholic church. That leaves a lot to be desired, tho... but he does have centuries of propaganda in which to clothe himself. My sister, who is Catholic because she teaches at a Catholic school, is planning on leaving the church just as soon as she retires. She's had enough of the hypocrisy!
AZ8theist
(6,134 posts)ArkansasDemocrat1
(2,602 posts)God sanctions, nay commands abortion by the means commonly available.
AZ8theist
(6,134 posts)There are other verses where God orders or justifies abortion and infanticide.
In Hosea 13:16:
"Samaria shall become desolate; for she hath rebelled against her God: they shall fall by the sword: their infants shall be dashed in pieces, and their women with child shall be ripped up"
Pretty clear to me, even as an atheist, their "god" is greenlighting the very thing the Christo-fascists in America are willing to KILL pregnant women for doing. So the abortion issue was NEVER about the "unborn", it was ALWAYS about controlling women as slaves.
If it wasn't, then the so-called "christians" would admit that their god ordered abortions in the Buy Bull so then it's OK now.
But you'll never hear or see any Christo-fascist proclaim this as it destroys their argument while highlighting their hypocricy
Scalded Nun
(1,307 posts)thomski64
(546 posts)....abortion, if alter boys could
get pregnant...
Mysterian
(5,057 posts)Religion is a bane of mankind.
FoxNewsSucks
(10,736 posts)where it doesn't belong. If we wanted to conform to catholic belief, we'd join the church. He can keep his mouth shut and mind his own damn business.
damifino10
(42 posts)The Pope or Popes have never been relevant in my life. The tolerance for decades of the pedophiles preaching God and the biblical
book of fiction, drove me away from"religion" @ the age of twelve. Abusers, I dom't care what they say.
tonekat
(1,914 posts)Sorry Jack, nobody believes you have any authority whatsoever, you've done enough damage with your evil religion.
ShazzieB
(17,978 posts)Sorry, I don't see it. Someone asked him what he thought, and he answered. Those of us who don't care what he thinks are free to ignore him.
Response to ArkansasDemocrat1 (Original post)
Omaha Steve This message was self-deleted by its author.
PortTack
(33,978 posts)tornado34jh
(1,221 posts)I can't tell which side he is on most of the time.
orwell
(7,858 posts)...help launder Nazi money during WW2?
Asking for a friend...
ArkansasDemocrat1
(2,602 posts)The "Ratlines" included monasteries.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ratlines_(World_War_II)
speak easy
(10,216 posts)ArkansasDemocrat1
(2,602 posts)Oh sure, we did, but you are missing the point. Representatives of an entity claiming to be a moral force for good shielded war criminals of the worst sort from receiving justice.
speak easy
(10,216 posts)Wasn't that the basis of the Nuremberg trials, the UN and the Cold War?
Cirsium
(296 posts)Certainly the US claims to be a moral force for good in the world and representatives of the US shielded war criminals of the worst sort from receiving justice.
Americas been a haven for thousands of Nazis and Nazi collaborators who served in concentration camps and death squads and SS units. Several were even leaders of Nazi-allied governments. And we didnt merely take them in in some cases, we welcomed and protected them; we kept them safe from justice. Its far past time we acknowledged it.
Besides the obvious ethical reasons for historical honesty, there are also social ones. Were in the middle of a heated national conversation fueled by a hunger for racial justice. But how can we hope to acknowledge the impact of centuries-old institutions like slavery and Jim Crow when we cant be honest about coddling perpetrators of the Holocaust, which still has living eyewitnesses, victims and veterans? We cant get to 1619 if we cant get past 1945.
https://www.cnn.com/2021/02/24/opinions/dark-postscript-america-nazis-golinkin/index.html
Of all the [Holocaust] survivors in the camps, only a few thousand came in in [the] first year or so. To get a visa was a precious commodity, and there were immigration policymakers in Washington who were on record saying that they didn't think the Jews should be let in because they were "lazy people" or "entitled people" and they didn't want them in.
But there were many, many thousands of Nazi collaborators who got visas to the United States while the survivors did not even though they had been, for instance, the head of a Nazi concentration camp, the warden at a camp, or the secret police chief in Lithuania who signed the death warrants for people. ...
The bulk of the people who got into the United States some were from Germany itself, some in fact were senior officers in the Nazi party under Hitler but more were the Nazi collaborators.
https://www.npr.org/2014/11/05/361427276/how-thousands-of-nazis-were-rewarded-with-life-in-the-u-s
Canada and the United States allowed and even encouraged the immigration of Nazi collaborators and Holocaust perpetrators in the years following the war. If the public remembers this history, it is likely through the frame of fictional Nazi hunting narratives, like those featured in the Indiana Jones movies or the Amazon Prime show Hunters. Or perhaps we take note when a former Nazi makes the news, as in the case of former Cleveland resident and concentration camp guard Ivan John Demjanjuk.
But these narratives obscure the more typical stories of Nazis in North America, especially in the U.S. Our popular memory has downplayed the welcome offered to Nazi immigrants after the war, which is how Americans, like Canadians, have repeatedly blithely celebrated men from units accused of contributing to atrocities.
Near the end of the war, as Allied armies regained ground and began camp liberations, collaborators fled their posts in droves to avoid the violent reprisal that awaited them upon capture. This was particularly true for Eastern European collaborators, whose roles spanned from pogrom participation to auxiliary policing and SS membership. They could blend in among those displaced by the war more easily than Germans and Austrians, and then concoct plausible back stories that did not implicate them for their contributions to the Nazi cause. Those who made it to U.S. and British-administered Allied zones found that if they voiced fear of political retribution for anti-Soviet views, they could become eligible for emigration.
https://time.com/6322156/history-of-nazi-immigration/
The re-opening of our borders in the years following World War II allowed thousands of collaborators and accomplices of the Nazi regime to make their way to the United States. A small number of them were knowingly brought in by U.S. intelligence services. Most came through the system undetected amid an influx of nearly 400,000 war-displaced persons. At the time, officials set a preposterously high bar for complicity in war crimes. That, combined with an initial lack of knowledge about the Holocaust, made it easy for applicants to cover up their backgrounds on their immigration forms.
Once here, it was as easy to escape justice. Adrija Artukovic, minister of the Interior and Justice in Croatia during the war, sneaked into the U.S. under an assumed name in 1948 and settled in Seal Beach. Known in Yugoslavia as the Butcher of the Balkans, Artukovic was described by a U.S. official as Croatias Himmler. American authorities knew he was here as early as 1949, but he wasnt arrested and returned to Croatia for trial until the 1980s. His death sentence was never carried out; he died in 1988.
For the first two decades after World War II, the INS brought very few denaturalization cases to court, a total of five for the entire 1950s. Only one of these war criminals was successfully denaturalized. The 1960s saw just two cases pursued, despite INS being flooded with dozens if not hundreds of tips on potential war criminals living among us. The cases it did manage to bring to court in the 1950s and 1960s were so poorly constructed that even a Romanian Iron Guard member and virulent anti-Semite, Valerian Trifa, was not stripped of his citizenship. As for deportations, the INS filed no more than 10 cases against suspected war criminals from 1945 to 1973.
https://newsroom.ucla.edu/stories/ucla-faculty-voice:-nazi-era-war-criminals-often-had-safe-haven-in-the-united-states
Lucky Luciano
(11,371 posts)The Ustae were a savagely nationalistic Croatian group intent on slaughtering Serbs, Jews, and Roma supported directly by the Vatican and the Nazis.
Jasenovac concentration camp even made the Nazis blush.
carpetbagger
(4,476 posts)Maybe the Catholic Church laundered Nazi money, but it was Protestant voters that put them in power.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_Germany#/media/File:Religion_in_Germany_by_district,_1925.svg
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1932_German_presidential_election#/media/File:1932_German_presidential_election_-_2nd_round_Charts.svg
Orrex
(63,746 posts)Forcibly disband this organization, jail the perpetrators and enablers, seize and liquidate all assets, and use the proceeds to benefit survivors of abuse.
I'm sorry, Frank. What they fuck were you saying? And why the fuck should anyone care?
onecaliberal
(35,081 posts)Why are they here?
J_William_Ryan
(1,968 posts)To oppose abortion bans and defend a womans right to privacy is not to be pro-abortion.
Indeed, its perfectly appropriate and consistent to oppose abortion bans and defend a womans right to privacy while opposing abortion and seeking to end the practice.
In fact, banning abortion is an ineffective way of stopping abortions tantamount to doing nothing.
kysrsoze
(6,093 posts)I was starting to believe he was a more sensible pontiff, but fuck him like all the rest.
ArkansasDemocrat1
(2,602 posts)Stopped a decade or two ago. Soon it will be three decades.
SCantiGOP
(14,105 posts)My Mom was a devout Catholic, my Dad an atheist who would never admit it, saying that he just liked to stay home and read the paper on Sunday mornings.
ArkansasDemocrat1
(2,602 posts)Tom Baker is still my first Doctor.
dem4decades
(11,724 posts)What's he care.
Pototan
(1,753 posts)free will. Seems to me that means he or she is pro-choice.
I am pro-choice. That doesn't mean I'm pro-abortion. As a man, that decision is up to a woman, her doctor and whoever else she wants to participate in that decision.
For example. Adultery is a mortal sin, according to the 10 commandments. I certainly am not in favor of making that illegal by statute. Whoever believes in that superstitious nonsense still has to concede that being pro-choice is not in violation of the Catholic Church's teachings. Otherwise, God is guilty of the same thing.
ShazzieB
(17,978 posts)I agree with the sentiments expressed in your post, especially the part about God being pro-choice. That makes perfect sense to me. I was raised Baptist, not Catholic, but it was always emphasized thst God gives us free will to make our own choices.
I don't belong to any organized religion at this point in my life, but I still believe in free will. We have brains, and whether one believes they were given to us by God or not, it seems like a terrible waste not to make full use of such a valuable and powerful resource.
Javaman
(62,926 posts)He was everyones darling a few years ago, then he turned into an insane old man. But no one talks about that now
Sound familiar?
niyad
(118,025 posts)niyad
(118,025 posts)Response to ArkansasDemocrat1 (Original post)
Chin music This message was self-deleted by its author.
Figarosmom
(714 posts)Last edited Sun Sep 15, 2024, 03:18 PM - Edit history (1)
Priests have been wrong about things then they have been right. I would never ask a priest for guidance.i dumped the church after their ruling on the birth control pill. On was on the edge anyway because of all the lieing in church services. Buddha said they developed religion to control chaos into peace and to give the poor a reason to go on with the promise of a paradise un the end. (this is paraphrasing he said something more eloquently) so it's like law and order, man-made laws to keep order. Days of the popes words being important are coming to an end
heckles65
(593 posts)The Republic of Ireland and my province of Quebec were both treated by the Catholic church as their private fiefs. You would think unwanted children would have been loved and cherished right?
In both cases, as most people here know: WRONG. They - and their mothers - were treated like dirt.
Meanwhile, the fathers were probably whooping it up in some pub/ tavern.
BlueWavePsych
(2,940 posts)niyad
(118,025 posts)musclecar6
(1,827 posts)They should change their name to the American Taliban party.
ShazzieB
(17,978 posts)RockRaven
(15,906 posts)I don't care (or rather wouldn't if morally and intellectually deficient people didn't farm out their thinking to others, like him).
Nobody ought to care what he thinks or says, except to take it as a sign that if you think likewise you may be making the same errors that he is.
Self Esteem
(971 posts)niyad
(118,025 posts)poli-junkie
(1,092 posts)Would the penis pope accept a woman bleeding out from a miscarriage only to die in a hospital parking lot??
niyad
(118,025 posts)and the docs can only save her or the fetus, and he chooses the fetus?
KS Toronado
(18,695 posts)"not welcoming migrants is a "grave" sin, and likened having an abortion to an "assassination". "
One is just a sin, the other is a assassination, why didn't he call abortion a sin?
Maybe because it isn't, especially when the life of the mother is in danger.
Demnation
(409 posts)CTyankee
(64,520 posts)there was a movie about doing just that a few decades ago called "The Shoes of the Fisherman."
EYESORE 9001
(27,221 posts)the choice is obvious to anyone with an ounce of the discernment that is supposedly bestowed on believers when tasked with making a binary decision about relative evil between presidential candidates.
Its a gift of the Holy Spirit, yunno, one facet of the triune god, so, yeah, god too. Cant be ignored. If you call yourself a Christian, you accept the presence of the Holy Spirit in your life as a divine wind that has some influence in your life. Some speak in tongues, some dabble in prophecy, and some draw on the power of discernment, which is enumerated as one of the spiritual gifts bestowed by the Holy Spirit. Some degree is acknowledged in every branch of lp of which Im aware - from charismatic to orthodox.
I challenge any Christian who, by definition, believes in the Holy Spirit, to filter their knowledge of the orange menace through their holy discernment and see how he fares against Kamala Harris.
SallyHemmings
(1,864 posts)yourout
(7,878 posts)As do all religious leaders.
rambler_american
(814 posts)Mind your own damn business.
mwb970
(11,573 posts)Go pray to your made-up god and LEAVE US ALONE.
Shermann
(8,254 posts)Nowadays we only get the three exceptions, but there were four then.
In actuality we only get two exceptions because no woman is going to come forward to claim voluntary incest instead of rape. So that one is worthless.
Well maybe we do get three if you count this IVF mess they are scrambling to clean up.
RT_Fanatic
(230 posts)Go away, your worshipfulness. The last thing this country needs is political advice from a pedophile-protecting, genocide-enabling milquetoast priest. The Roman Catholic Church is a worldwide syndicate of criminality and perversion, and should have been discarded to the dustbin of history centuries ago.
Two words for Francis and all past and future Poops: Fuck Off.
LastLiberal in PalmSprings
(12,790 posts)...well, you get the idea. WTF makes the Pope think he can stick his religious beliefs into our presidency.
John F. Kennedy addressed concerns about his Catholic faith during his 1960 presidential campaign. In a famous speech to the Greater Houston Ministerial Association, he stated:
"I am not the Catholic candidate for president. I am the Democratic Partys candidate for president, who happens also to be a Catholic. I do not speak for my church on public matters, and the church does not speak for me."
This speech was pivotal in addressing the anti-Catholic sentiment of the time and helped reassure voters of his commitment to secular governance
twodogsbarking
(11,657 posts)He pope shove that cross up a your ass, sideways.
nwduke
(363 posts)That has caused pain, suffering and fear throughout its existence. In its more authoritarian forms, religion punishes questioning and rewards gullibility. Faith is not a function of stupidity, but a frequent cause of it! Mark Twain: Religion was invented when the first con man met the first fool!
Response to ArkansasDemocrat1 (Original post)
ificandream This message was self-deleted by its author.
MayReasonRule
(1,542 posts)NH Ethylene
(30,953 posts)Clearly, he is only looking at immigration and abortion, and not stepping back to look at the bigger picture.
LittleGirl
(8,333 posts)or any religious figure that has tried to be a voice of reason. For the love of the church, they have dismissed child abusers for centuries and I think everyone would be better off if they stopped listening to these MEN.
cstanleytech
(26,805 posts)ShazzieB
(17,978 posts)According to the Catechism of the Catholic Church, abortion=killing children.
I was not aware, however, that being opposed to banning abortion automatically makes someone a child killer. How charming.
Taraman
(390 posts)exercise their own free will according to their conscience. Got it.
You disappoint me, Padre.
ificandream
(10,186 posts)yes, the Church has always been heavily against abortion. Their argument, whether you agree or not, has been that a fetus is a child. But I think that's more in line as to whether it's a subjective decision by the mother, not a health one. The health of the mother should be in the forefront. I'm not sure why the Pope didn't make that clearer.
BarbD
(1,210 posts)It's not that the Church does not care about the mother. It's just that they concentrate on saving the baby and if the mother dies it is the will of God. It's why I left the church, subsequently had my tubes tied after having three c-sections in three years. And, was afraid to ever go to a Catholic hospital.
NotHardly
(1,108 posts)robleb
(196 posts)who cares what he thinks.
If you are opposed to abortion as part of your faith or beliefs, then don't have one, but don't dictate to others.
IronLionZion
(46,683 posts)But I get his thinking. He's trying to reach American Catholics. He can't endorse a candidate but he's trying to get them to lean towards Harris since she's the "lesser of two evils" in this scenario.
Trust_Reality
(1,814 posts)The Pope needs to go jump in the lake. Ha.
After reading only a few of the angry replies, I suspect I agree with all of them.
What a jerk.
swag
(26,506 posts)poozwah
(232 posts)religious leaders should avoid stones at all costs. here is a man who leads a sect that is as morally low rent as any group on this earth. for him to call kamala harris a lesser evil is disgusting. the church has long been corrupt. let us not forget the complicity of the catholic church with the fascist movement in the 20th century.
malthaussen
(17,519 posts)The nerve of the Catholic Church whining about policies that are "against life."
And even if we set that aside, the simple equation of "evils" for both sides is appalling, but about what one would expect from an institution of authoritarian leanings to begin with.
-- Mal
SalamanderSleeps
(645 posts)You don't have the right, given the churches history, to have your judgement respected.
So, why don't you just come down off of your cross, and stay the fuck out of our elections.
Two words just for you; Magdalene and Laundries.
Maybe you can conveniently let these places slip your mind, but my family will never be able to do so.
"Sit down."
"Shut up."
"Asshole"
ZonkerHarris
(25,036 posts)efhmc
(14,870 posts)"You mean the way all Catholics churches respect women? It is the largest Misogynistic group on the face of this earth. Leaves the Taliban in the dust."
Ferrets are Cool
(21,371 posts)You sicken me.
krkaufman
(13,613 posts)Typical anti-choice bull***t, false equivalency...
One is actively harming life. The other is saying the government doesn't have a role in forcing women to carry every pregnancy to term w/o exceptions, not forcing or even advocating abortions. The latter is leaving the choice between the persons concerned and their god, if applicable, as it should be.
Francis is aligning with Alito et al in advocating for a Christian-Nationalist state.
joewicker_TX
(82 posts)I walked away from the Catholic Church. I retained my faith and exercise it the way I see fit. I know the difference between good and evil and what is moral and what is not. It's about time to start taxing the fucking churches.
Chrysanthemum
(196 posts)Previous to Francis, every Pontiff proclaimed it a grave sin to vote for a candidate who did not oppose abortion. That was regardless of how anti-life the opposing candidate was: the death penalty, treatment of the poor and the immigrant, stripping away health care from the most vulnerable, etc. etc.
This is the first time a pope has said you can vote for a pro-choice candidate if your conscience tells you the opposite candidate is worse. It is unrealistic to expect the pope to sanction abortion. But it is actually a huge step forward that the head of the Church is not advocating single-issue voting.
ShazzieB
(17,978 posts)atreides1
(16,281 posts)The organization that made a deal with Hitler, just to protect themselves, and then assisted Nazis, to include members of the SS, in their flight from justice.
This was the same church that assisted Franco and has for centuries backed governments against the people...and for decades looked the other way as their pedophiles sexually assaulted children, to include disabled children!!!
Francis can go fuck himself and take the entirety of the church hierarchy with him!!!
MadameButterfly
(1,340 posts)ot Rome and praised him? What did he think Bernie's position on abortion was? Does he not understand that Kamal is as close to Bernie as a presidential candidate will ever get in the US? Does he think the same number of people (if you are counting fetuses as people) will die under Kamala and Trump?
I am so disappointed and disilllusioned. Done with the Papacy, even progressive ones. How dare he put a thumb on the scales, and not call out real, obvious evil.
Turbineguy
(38,083 posts)efhmc
(14,870 posts)that if you vote for Democrats, you will go to hell. This has been told to me by several people who go there No one would ever call him down on that but is that even legal to say.?
relayerbob
(6,891 posts)We don't appreciate foreign interference in our elections. Please, literally, for the love of God, Shut up
Intractable
(190 posts)Montauk6
(8,257 posts)polichick
(37,420 posts)Grins
(7,689 posts)Someone desperate for a byline?
I cant recall any Pope or head of the Anglican Church in England EVER being asked that question.
Am I wrong?
GiqueCee
(1,190 posts)... will say anything to try and stay relevant. The Catholic Church has WAY too much to answer for before he runs his mouth.
twodogsbarking
(11,657 posts)sarchasm
(1,152 posts)sarisataka
(20,332 posts)Does that include our President?
twodogsbarking
(11,657 posts)4catsmom
(52 posts)is a cult as much as MAGA is.
Martin68
(24,049 posts)Aussie105
(5,982 posts)Last edited Mon Sep 16, 2024, 02:05 AM - Edit history (1)
That is all he can do.
The rest of us have more flexibility in what we believe and can just ignore what he said.
Doodley
(9,950 posts)PJMcK
(22,540 posts)Since Im not Catholic, hes functionally irrelevant to me.
If Francis is reducing the presidential election to simply those two issues, hes foolishly not looking at the bigger perspective.
The crimes of the Church are huge and span centuries. Clean up your own house, Francis.
Hes just another old white man who wants to command others how to live.
Kashkakat v.2.0
(1,816 posts)there were safe easy idiot-proof birth control AND if our culture wasnt so hung up and confused about sex, people would take more responsibility for their sexuality. Eight billion people on the planet is more than enough - does God really have to come back down here and tell you that or our we gonna use our god-given brains and figure it out. BTW there could be safe birth control even amenable to right to life anti-choicers - reversible vasectomies anyone? That there isnt is another aspect of our culture's weirdness about sex.