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Tennessee Hillbilly

(654 posts)
Tue Sep 10, 2024, 11:23 AM Sep 10

AI generates harsher punishments for people who use Black dialect

Source: Science News

Ask it and other artificial intelligence tools like it what they think about Black people, and they will generate words like “brilliant,” “ambitious” and “intelligent.” Ask those same tools what they think about people when the input doesn’t specify race but uses the African American English, or AAE, dialect, and those models will generate words like “suspicious,” “aggressive” and “ignorant.”

The tools display a covert racism that mirrors racism in current society, researchers report August 28 in Nature. While the overt racism of lynchings and beatings marked the Jim Crow era, today such prejudice often shows up in more subtle ways. For instance, people may claim not to see skin color but harbor racist beliefs, the authors write.

Such covert bias has the potential to cause serious harm. As part of the study, for instance, the team told three generative AI tools — ChatGPT (including GPT-2, GPT-3.5 and GPT-4 language models), T5 and RoBERTa — to review the hypothetical case of a person convicted of first-degree murder and dole out either a life sentence or the death penalty. The inputs included text the purported murderer wrote in either AAE or Standard American English (SAE). The models, on average, sentenced the defendant using SAE to death roughly 23 percent of the time and the defendant using AAE to death roughly 28 percent of the time.

Because these language models are trained on an enormous trove of online information, they shine a light on hidden societal biases, says Sharese King, a sociolinguist at the University of Chicago. The examples in this study “could tell us something about the broader sort of disparities we see in the criminal justice system.”


Read more: https://www.sciencenews.org/article/ai-punishments-black-dialect



This isn't surprising. But I'm not sure that "covert racism" is the right term, since so much of this racism isn't hidden.
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moniss

(5,532 posts)
6. No the phrase was a famous
Tue Sep 10, 2024, 12:54 PM
Sep 10

cultural one from the beginning of the IBM punch cards. The cards used to have that warning printed on them because if you folded them, spindled them around a finger etc. they wouldn't work right in the computer. The phrase I referenced reflected concerns many in society had to the rush to accept the application of computer technology reducing people in society to mere data or a "number". It was like a protest of sorts. People had it on posters, shirts, buttons etc. Buttons used to be a big thing too. All kinds, sizes and colors saying all kinds of things. But sort of like the polka-dot shirt craze it lived and then died.

Igel

(36,018 posts)
13. Let the culture lesson continue.
Tue Sep 10, 2024, 08:16 PM
Sep 10

If you worked in an office you knew what a spindle was. If you've seen old movies that involved office workers you've seen them. But since everybody knew what the prosaic object was, why mention it?

A receipt or bill or other transitory piece of paper comes in, you'd spindle it. You'd place it on what appears to be a sharp thick "needle" with usually a solid base. That was a "spindle."

No finger was wrapped around in the spindling of bills.

moniss

(5,532 posts)
15. Spindling
Tue Sep 10, 2024, 11:19 PM
Sep 10

in many cases involves revolving an object, like a sheet of paper etc. into a tube shape. Like people aimlessly dawdling with something. In that sense it may serve no actual purpose. In some cases the other "spindling" can occur to make something fit or conform to a desired shape. I've seen offices where papers are spindled into tube form and then paper-clipped at the ends to retain the tube shape. Often times I've seen shipping documents, instructions etc. treated this way. Some seem to do things like that because it makes storage and retrieval to hand out easier for them than having lot's of different things in a "stack" of papers and then sorting through them. I've seen them arrayed in rows nothing stacked on top and it takes less desk or counter space that way. In my years in commercial transport I can remember seeing it and being handed such things. Spindling is more, according to the dictionary, than just sticking a document on a spike.

An IBM punch card is not, nor ever was a "bill" or invoice etc. A usual office worker would have little use for one at their desk since they cannot read anything from the punched out blocks nor can they add anything to it. I can envision no scenario under which the spike you reference would even remotely be in the room with an IBM computer running punchcards.

electric_blue68

(17,719 posts)
10. Ty, the earlier part was somwhat before my time but close enough to have seen the phrase...
Tue Sep 10, 2024, 05:11 PM
Sep 10

And, oh, did I love my '60s buttons
Still have some, cultural, and political.

One of my uncles even gave me a small Kennedy button. Had to be for JFK.


LeftInTX

(29,872 posts)
11. "I am your class schedule"..LOL
Tue Sep 10, 2024, 05:33 PM
Sep 10

I remember grabbing the punch cards and submitting them.

And of course scantron tests.


I also did alot with computers so the "human" part was kinda goofy to me, because it was mostly data like class schedules, mailing lists, pay roll etc.

moniss

(5,532 posts)
5. It was a famous cultural phrase from the beginning of the IBM
Tue Sep 10, 2024, 12:49 PM
Sep 10

punch cards and the concerns about adaptation of technology reducing people to mere data or a "number".

LeftInTX

(29,872 posts)
8. It probably does OK because poor fluency/ESL is more global.
Tue Sep 10, 2024, 02:44 PM
Sep 10

Last edited Tue Sep 10, 2024, 05:38 PM - Edit history (16)

Although there are few other dialects like Dominican Republic, which AI probably has trouble with. (Dominican is English and Spanish and it's hard to understand in either language)

Many ESL issues are preposition, article, tense and word order issues. The odds are AI bots probably have the accuracy of google translate with respect to ESL.

There are other dialects of English around the world too. (Australian, Indian etc). However, Indian is more of an accent issue, but they have their own English phrases that don't exist in other parts of the world. Their grammar however is generally standard English. However, they do have a past-tense grammar issue of involving the use of "when" and "ago" I hear this in Bollywood movies when they are talking about some long lost dead person and the grammar is confusing.

African American English is a dialect, not a different language. And that is probably why the computer can't find a logical reference, Foreign language speakers have logical references because their native language is more than likely in the AI database.

African American English isn't ESL.



An ESL person might say,
"Close water". (Turn it off)
"Go store" (Go to the store)
"Mans coming" or "Mans going house" (Both meant: A man is coming to the house. Going also meant leaving to add to confusion)
"Go bus. Go Main Street". (Translation: To take the bus go to Main Street)

You can see that there is a persistent pattern with lack of articles and prepositions which a computer could likely figure out. It's a logics issue with a bit of a translation issue. A program would likely flag this person as non-English speaker/thinker.
My grandmother was not an English speaker and that is how she spoke when she spoke limited English. I think some of this might be universal regardless of the other language for some reason. (Spanish. Arabic, Farsi etc) My grandmother spoke Armenian.

With regards to the AAE/Standard English example above, she would have just said, "I go sleep. Bad dream". The bot could possibly read it as future tense. But the conclusion would be, "Non-English grammar".

To understand her minimal English, I had to logically figure out what was going in her head. (For instance, the article "the" is not in her vocabulary. Neither is the article, "a". Prepositions are pretty much non-existent). However, the logic is based on a language that is "not English". A bot might realize this because the pattern is likely universal.

OTOH: If the ESL speaker has poor mastery of their own native language and do not use "standard logic" in their native language, then the AI bot, would probably be confused.

Although it could result in some oddball translations. (Google translate still doesn't seem to get Spanish genders correct!),
translations from ESL would not be "incriminating" and would be considered translation quirks. There is also Google Translate, which AI might be based on the same architecture.

Sorry for the long post! I've done some work with computers.

____________

The bots probably need to be "taught" AAE, which is more of a hurdle than for instance: Spanish.

Spanish and most foreign languages are simply inputted via publicly available databases. Bots can probably pick up on the nuances of Spanish grammar within English because Spanish is in their database. They can probably tell that the speaker's native tongue is Spanish just by their English!

Igel

(36,018 posts)
14. "Southern accent" bias.
Tue Sep 10, 2024, 08:24 PM
Sep 10

DU used to have a strong one. If you had a Southern (US) accent, you were a rube, a dolt, a redneck.

Stupid, maybe troglodyte. Carter, was, apparently, with his degree in nuclear engineering (often reduced to "engineering", but which was a B.S. and later a 6-month certificate program at Union College in Jersey; his B.S. was from 1946, Naval Academy, "nuclear engineering" was very much not a thing, much subsumed into a B.S. degree).

But long past Carter, after I was a DUer, Southern dialect = idiot. (Not "idjit", which is note quite "idiot!" but tempered by the Irish "eejit", Supernatural notwithstanding, at least in my idiolect ... =/= "idiot lect", whatever that may be.)

OldBaldy1701E

(6,229 posts)
12. I agree. It isn't the correct term.
Tue Sep 10, 2024, 05:43 PM
Sep 10

And, this is just the tip of the iceberg. Watch as more and more of our everyday life is proven to be unabashedly biased. But it won't just be over color. The real bias these days is over socio-economic position. If you are not a 'have', you are nothing. This dynamic will also become less able to stay hidden as it permeates every aspect of our society and will be a major hurtle in regard to becoming a fraction of the society that our propaganda says we already are.

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