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PurgedVoter

(2,511 posts)
Sat May 10, 2025, 11:01 AM May 10

The line between excaping a kidnapper and resisting arrest has been made invisible

ICE in unmarked cars, not showing ID, screams secret police. It also screams fascism. The mayor of Newark was grabbed. I hope the judge hits ICE hard for this, since they had no cause, no right and no emergency to justify their treatment of him. He cooperated, but if an unmarked car drives up and people without ID grab someone, a good guy with a gun might end up in trouble, or a police officer may pause and wait through a few calls before responding to a kidnapping. The entire chain of command in this case should be out of their jobs and prevented, by court order, to ever hold a job where guns are part of the equipment used.

We are in a situation where impersonating officials is going to be easy. When things are rushed, positive identification and even calls are not allowed, things will go south fast. When due process is ignored and vehicles are not marked, kidnapping becomes easy. How can you tell ICE from whatever paramilitary group that has decided they can do what they want and get away with it?

How can we tell an an unmarked car driven by unauthorized paramilitary thugs from an unmarked car driven by authorized paramilitary thugs? When you get grabbed off the street by people who refuse to identify, will the courts understand that your actions were not resisting arrest? Will you even get to see a lawyer or a court?

What happens when a good person with a gun decides to defend someone being abducted? Will they get to see a lawyer or a court? How many lies will be told by authorities? How badly will they publicly brand of the innocent victims of an ICE raid gone bad? We have a president who is in competition with Putin for lying propaganda and a cabinet filled with people trained by Fox News to spread lying propaganda. They speak from the hip and make up evidence later.

Anyone could be grabbed, how long before you are grabbed and labeled as a member of MS13?

What is the difference between a kidnapping and an ICE abduction? The kidnapped victim won't have the top officials of the country and every right wing outlet declaring them a monster.

For me the critical moment was the interview where Krasnov insisted an obviously altered photo was proof of MS13 membership. We have a lying president and his loyal stooges ignoring due process and unwilling to do the right thing.

I was a sweet summer child ten years ago. Back then I would have expected Republican officials to have an issue with this. Now I know that the scariest 10 words are, "I am a Republican and I represent you in government."

24 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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The line between excaping a kidnapper and resisting arrest has been made invisible (Original Post) PurgedVoter May 10 OP
Women are just supposed to go with some masked man who claims he's ICE even though he won't show ID? CrispyQ May 10 #1
Waiting for ICE to grab someone with professional bodyguards ... nt eppur_se_muova May 10 #2
Professional bodyguards denote power & privilege of their own Hekate May 10 #21
Well, they just arrested a mayor ... nt eppur_se_muova May 10 #23
And they stuffed him in their van and got away, having made their point Hekate May 10 #24
Has the mayor filed suit yet? SheltieLover May 10 #3
I feel very strongly about this as well DFW May 10 #4
They wear masks, too: A majority-Black town starts armed protection group after neo-Nazi rally cbabe May 10 #7
This is one of the serious practical concerns for people at this time. RandomNumbers May 10 #5
I may not be the strongest angrychair May 10 #6
This is all because Trump does NOT see the need for due process... dchill May 10 #8
Those neck gators need to be pulled down and then dox the hell out of these fascists. Lars39 May 10 #9
Also assaulting members of congress is a crime SSJVegeta May 10 #10
This happened during the Portland Riots DENVERPOPS May 10 #11
Over here at DU we were most certainly paying attention... Hekate May 10 #22
Isn't it already happening? YepYep May 10 #12
Exactly markodochartaigh May 10 #20
Trump may be immune but... lame54 May 10 #13
There's already a story of a man dressed as an ice age t raping a woman uponit7771 May 10 #14
We've seen this before. Marcuse May 10 #15
Considering that Prison are for profit and make inmates work for pennies this is accurate PurgedVoter May 10 #16
K&R 2naSalit May 10 #17
"Now markodochartaigh May 10 #18
There have been a couple of these raids that I suspect are false flag ops... Wounded Bear May 10 #19

CrispyQ

(39,705 posts)
1. Women are just supposed to go with some masked man who claims he's ICE even though he won't show ID?
Sat May 10, 2025, 11:05 AM
May 10

Hekate

(97,809 posts)
24. And they stuffed him in their van and got away, having made their point
Sat May 10, 2025, 06:34 PM
May 10

When you said private bodyguards I was thinking of billionaires

DFW

(58,123 posts)
4. I feel very strongly about this as well
Sat May 10, 2025, 11:19 AM
May 10

I just wish a couple of Miller’s thugs would go into some neighborhood, wanting to cart someone off with no verfiable justification for any such action, find themselves confronted by twenty armed neighbors who subdue them, and leave them handcuffed on some far away street corner, minus their radios, or any other way to call for backup, and see how eager they are after sitting outside with soiled undergarments until some cop car slows down, asks them wtf they think they are doing, and then takes them in, makng them spend the night in a cell when they can’t/won’t produce any valid ID or reason for being there.

cbabe

(5,038 posts)
7. They wear masks, too: A majority-Black town starts armed protection group after neo-Nazi rally
Sat May 10, 2025, 12:21 PM
May 10
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/nbcblk/lincoln-heights-ohio-armed-protection-group-neo-nazi-rally-rcna196240

March 15, 2025, 6:00 AM PDT
By Aaron Franco and Morgan Radford

LINCOLN HEIGHTS, Ohio — Nearly every morning for the last month, Jay has been waking up before sunrise to drive around the streets of Lincoln Heights, patrolling neighborhood bus stops to make sure children are getting to school safely.

He’s a member of the Lincoln Heights Safety and Watch program, an initiative that started shortly after Feb. 7, when a neo-Nazi group waving swastika flags and shouting racial slurs demonstrated on a highway overpass just on the edge of this majority-Black community about 30 minutes north of Cincinnati.

Officers from Evendale, which borders Lincoln Heights, and the Hamilton County Sheriff’s Office both responded that day. No arrests were made, and Evendale police officers did not take down any names or identifying information from members of the neo-Nazi group, according to the mayor’s office. The Hamilton County Prosecutor’s office is currently investigating the incident to see if criminal charges could be filed.

In a statement, Evendale Mayor Richard Finan said officers’ emphasis on de-escalation “resulted in the incident’s resolution without injuries to any of the persons involved, passersby or law enforcement officers. During this evolving scene, protecting life took priority over immediate identification.” The Evendale Police Department was the first to respond to the incident, which took place on a bridge linking Evendale with Lincoln Heights.

… more …

(Cops protecting nazis. Neighbors protecting neighbors. Black Panthers rise again.)

RandomNumbers

(18,625 posts)
5. This is one of the serious practical concerns for people at this time.
Sat May 10, 2025, 11:31 AM
May 10

Of course, things like not getting an SS check or being able to qualify for benefits timely, are also practical concerns.

But I can imagine leaving the grocery story, putting my bags in the car, and turning around to see masked thugs there claiming to be ICE and ready to cart me away. Okay so I don't look Hispanic or anything that they are currently targeting - but what about if/when this extends to American citizens who have voiced political views against this administration? And I can certainly put myself in the shoes of someone who is in that situation and DOES have a darker skin shade and less "normal" sounding name.

And some people don't have anyone who will immediately notice that they disappeared.

angrychair

(10,644 posts)
6. I may not be the strongest
Sat May 10, 2025, 12:00 PM
May 10

Or fastest. Or a superhero in any way but I will defend the innocent. I will defend the oppressed. I will not bend the knee to tyranny. I will fight until my last breath to protect the lives of those that cannot protect themselves.
I do not expect LE to do that. I do not expect the military to do that.
They are quickly becoming the fist of our fascist dictator wannabe the Mango Mussolini.

dchill

(42,433 posts)
8. This is all because Trump does NOT see the need for due process...
Sat May 10, 2025, 12:25 PM
May 10

...in cases HE has decided to prosecute. He's the one who has to be reined in. Too bad he has complete immunity for acts taken as President. Looking at you, Chief Justice John Roberts!

DENVERPOPS

(12,355 posts)
11. This happened during the Portland Riots
Sat May 10, 2025, 01:19 PM
May 10

during his first term.......................

It was a harbinger of things to come........and no one was paying attention

"First they came for the............"

Hekate

(97,809 posts)
22. Over here at DU we were most certainly paying attention...
Sat May 10, 2025, 02:33 PM
May 10

There were newspaper accounts and cable tv reporting (MSNBC is what I watch) — and of course there was Rachel Maddow.

It was very scary at the time — first term Trump acted with impunity then, and is really untethered now. His new out and proud allies since then are the Roberts Court and Project 2025.

YepYep

(19 posts)
12. Isn't it already happening?
Sat May 10, 2025, 01:22 PM
May 10

The militias in Texas has been impersonating ICE. Easy to do now, you all you need is an unmarked car, guns and you don’t have to show an ID. You can even cosplay as Barbie and people will think you’re the head of Homeland Insecurity.

PurgedVoter

(2,511 posts)
16. Considering that Prison are for profit and make inmates work for pennies this is accurate
Sat May 10, 2025, 01:32 PM
May 10

Whenever a person is arrested, the odds are good that they are being sold into slavery.

markodochartaigh

(2,939 posts)
18. "Now
Sat May 10, 2025, 01:58 PM
May 10

I know that the scariest 10 words are, "I am a Republican and I represent you in government."


Pure gold right here!

Wounded Bear

(62,045 posts)
19. There have been a couple of these raids that I suspect are false flag ops...
Sat May 10, 2025, 02:01 PM
May 10

done by trumper acolytes impersonating Feds.

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