Here is the thing about Nazi salutes

[genxlib]

There seems to be a lot of discussion about whether Musk pulled the Nazi salute for Trumps inauguration

It certainly looked like one and I certainly understand why a lot of people think it was the real deal.

But here is the thing...people who actually give a damn would sooner break their arm than make any motion that could even be remotely mistaken for a Nazi salute. My brain stem would simply take over before my arm got anywhere near that shape.

So whether he meant to or not, it represents a strangely cavalier 'fuck-you' attitude that he obviously does not have that filter. He does not take the idea of Nazis serious enough to even care that he might be mistaken for one.

Of course he followed up with a lot of trolling jokes about it so he clearly thinks the whole thing is acceptable grounds for trolling.

I will say what I always said about him. He lacks the emotional maturity to be anywhere near the center of power.

[50 Shades Of Blue]

1. Muskrat doesn't deserve the benefit of the doubt on ANYTHING!

[Mosby]

6. Why is he so pro Israel?

Link to tweet

It doesn't add up.

[50 Shades Of Blue]

9. Probably because Trump is in bed with Bibi for their mutual profit and he wants in on it!

[Mosby]

12. Bibi is on his way out.

Nt.

[50 Shades Of Blue]

14. Where do you see that?

[Mosby]

24. My opinion.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

69. My opinion too. A plurality of Israelis have no time for him

Many Israelis, perhaps more than 50%, think he has been corrupt.

A majority of Israelis feel Bibi failed to protect them on Oct. 2023.

All Israelis are aware that he has prolonged his government by mounting an extended war. Notice how the general in charge of defences around Gaza resigned after the ceasefire, and not before because you don't give up in the middle of a war. Notice that Bibi did not fire him in Oct. 2023 because doing so would have been an admission that there was a failure.

[50 Shades Of Blue]

73. I'll believe it when I see it.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

75. I believe it, but my belief means nothing until we both see it -- meaning his departure. . . . . . . nt

[hlthe2b]

11. Mr. Apartheid is more concerned with color and LGBTQ if would appear...

Are you REALLY defending Musk and his salute? Really?

[Mosby]

13. I'm just asking questions.

I don't give a shit about him or his businesses.

You know he's autistic, right?

[hlthe2b]

20. Yes, I do. I likewise know that his maternal grandparents were members of Nazi party in Canada,

supported Hitler, and moved to Apartheid South Africa because "they strongly supported the pro-Apartheid regime."

He's an amalgam but likewise, an opportunist, so, sorting out true beliefs from those that are merely self-serving would not be straightforward.

[Mosby]

25. He's Bibi approved.

Link to tweet

[hlthe2b]

27. Sure, Bibi.. Like you, Musk is all about the power, corruption, and personal wealth..

Count me unimpressed. More convinced by this account (On Elon's trip to Auschwitz):
https://www.democraticunderground.com/100219938225

[Mosby]

38. Because you know better than the Jew who is the leader of the Jewish nation.

NT.

[hlthe2b]

40. That attack on me was very unfounded. Bibi is under indictment for his corruption. That is fact.

and that corruption includes funds directed his way not to mention his attempt to dismantle his own judicial system that had indicted him. And that doesn't even get to the fact that he refused to negotiate to release the Israeli hostages until most were dead and would not even discuss with the families--until Biden et al forced the issue on the nearly identical agreement he'd refused to consider six months before. Gee, who, besides Musk does THAT sound like?

No, I don't have to bow to the likes of Bibi Netanyahu. The Israeli people deserve FAR BETTER.

[Mosby]

46. Come on dude. Its a discussion board.

I'm not trying to attack you.

[hlthe2b]

48. I am not a dude nor your dude and I damned well am not Bibi Netanyahu's... He's a monster.

[Mosby]

52. Ok.

Maybe I should put you on hide then..ma'am.

🫠

[hlthe2b]

54. If you are going to respond to me like that over the likes of Bibi Netanyahu or Trump or Musk--all who

are of the same damned ilk--if you are going to defend them and conversely attack me for not going along with your views of them, then, by all means, do so. I welcome it. The last I checked we were democratic underground and do not support those who want to destroy democracy--whether here or in Israel. I can assure you I CARE more for the Israeli people than Bibi does-- sans self-serving motivations-- and most certainly Americans and the rest of the world than the three of them do.

[Mosby]

78. Ok, so I think your wrong.

Lumping him and Musk in with Trump is misguided and ahistorical. Trump is a bad person, a convicted felon and someone who has never demonstrated any integrity in his business dealings.

Musk comes off to me as a typical ceo type, except not as smart as most.

Bibi is nothing more (or less) than a highly successful politician, and thanks to Israel's coalition system has had record setting career. His prosecution of the Gaza war is not significantly different than what his political opponents would have done, that's why they were able to put together a war cabinet that included Gantz and Eisenkot from competing parties.

Go and look up the indictments against Netanyahu. Case 1000, 2000, 4000. He took a bunch of free shit from his billionaire buddy. He may have TRIED to get favorable coverage from some newspaper. How is this remotely similar to the 86 or whatever seperate state and federal criminal charges leveled at Trump? Please.

[hlthe2b]

82. Just one to counter: his illegal and tyrannical attempt to dismantle the Israeli judiciary... Trump on steroids.

Nor, I note do you even touch on Bibi's refusal to address the families of the abducted Israelis nor do anything to put their safety and welfare ahead of his own military and political benefit. He wouldn't even address the families in the first year after their horrendous capture.

Your bending over backward for this Trump wannabe is noted but unjustified, to say the least. As I have told you before I have a colleague who actually attended high school with him in Philadelphia. All those many years ago he was already (per her clear recollections) driven in both a good way intellectually and academically, but a self-absorbed and narcissistic jerk on the whole. I can see that her assessment then was not too far off. So on the former, he clearly is no Trump, but on the latter?

[Bernardo de La Paz]

68. Hiding people like hlthe2b is simply cheap, and being public about it is double cheap. . . . . nt

[KayossZero]

77. I know I'm not stopping at "Maybe" for you.

Posts like yours above scream wilful ignorance at best and astroturfed propo at worst.

[Jilly_in_VA]

58. So's my son

and he would NEVER , EVER give a Nazi salute!

[Hekate]

64. Sure you're just asking questions. Absolutely. Just read your other post & convo on Musk...

So this seems an appropriate place to ask my own question: are you seriously making excuses for Musk’s behavior?

[tulipsandroses]

18. There are so many RWers that claim to be Pro Israel but still manage to be antisemites

all at the same time.
He and other GOPers that claim to be Pro Israel have no qualms repeating tired old antisemitic tropes about Jews, especially the ones they perceive to be enemies.
If memory serves me correctly, he made that trip after being called out for being an anti semite.

[meow2u3]

71. Those are the RWers who are pro-Israel for the wrong reasons

They're the radical right evangelicals want to take over Isreal after they kick out--or even exterminate--the Jewish people. They're not only anti-Semitic, they're also genocidal. They turn around and deny it all.

[Voltaire2]

22. Because there is no requirement for fascists to be antisemitic.

While antisemitism was a cornerstone of the NSDP's version of fascism, it was not central to Mussolini or Franco's version, nor is it central to the Republican Party's version.

Creating outsider groups to hate is a technique for fascists to gain and hold power. Which groups are identified for targeting depends on the circumstances. Here it is quite obviously latino immigrants, lgbtq people, 'liberals', and women.

[paleotn]

41. Ever heard of cognitive dissonance?

And don't give me the "he's on the spectrum" bullshit. Lots of people, with varying degrees of autism, don't go around nazi saluting. He's just a little boy who needs his goddamn toys taking away. And about a 60 year "time out" in supermax.

[OrangeJoe]

42. Sure it does

The modern state of Israel has no problem cozying up to fascists if it helps them exterminate “Arabs”. Many, many Israelis have a Nazi Like attitude towards the Palestinians and would like nothing more than to see them exterminated. Do a YouTube search on Israelis talking about Palestinians. Just the other day I saw the interview of an older Israeli woman, clearly an immigrant from the USA, say she “did not give a shit” about dead children in Gaza because they “are going to grow up to be Arabs.”

[enigmania]

45. My father agreed:

an award-winning journalist, he said pretty much the same thing in the 80s.

[ForgedCrank]

51. You are

right, it doesn't add up because it's a line of BS, and anyone with any foothold in reality knows that.
All of the hyperbole and screeching about it does nothing more than make all the rest of us look ridiculous as a group. this is the sort of stuff that gives our opposition leverage, and we need to stop doing it.
Some forget, these posts show up on Google, and it's not doing our credibility any favors among the voters we need to attract.
Question is, will we learn before the next election and stop with the foolishness? We're going to have to get serious if we want to climb out of this hole.

Flame away

[AStern]

85. Are you sure his support isn't performative?

eom

[EarthFirst]

2. The X post he followed it up with says all we need to know...

His cavalier attitude towards dropping Nazi puns after the press coverage of his salute says all we need to know.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

31. I wonder what it said. . . . nt

[EarthFirst]

34. I won't link to it; however this was his response:

“Don’t say Hess to Nazi accusations! Some people will Goebbels anything down! Stop Gőring your enemies,”

[Bernardo de La Paz]

35. Oh, thanks, I did see that. Yup, that response confirms, not for names, but for dismissive failed attempt at humor

That he thinks he can get away with pretending this is a joking matter and not a revealing matter shows his naivete' and confirms his underlying sympathies.

[calimary]

47. Was he trying to be funny?

That smart-ass remark doesn’t seem very funny to me. Just makes him sound like somebody who should have his mouth washed out with soap. And his posting privileges taken away.

[EarthFirst]

63. He took it even further...

He made a second comment saying that his pronouns are Him/Himmler…

There’s something very wrong with this guy.

It’s especially concerning that he’s within the inner circle…

[Gore1FL]

72. He also said something about his pronouns being he, his and himmler or some such.

The things Musk gets hung-up about are just so weird.

[Think. Again.]

3. It was clearly an intentional nazi salute. Twice.

Last edited Thu Jan 23, 2025, 07:11 PM - Edit history (1)

https://m.

[Crunchy Frog]

70. If he'd been around in the 30s, he definitely would have been a supporter of Hitler.

[Think. Again.]

80. He is around now, and he is a nazi.

[calimary]

84. Wherever the perception of power is.

[redqueen]

79. It wasn't subtle.

https://www.reddit.com/r/NewsWithJingjing/comments/1i6geyb/elon_musks_nazi_salute_side_by_side_with_hitlers/

[MissB]

4. Or... he's just a nazi

I’m going with that obvious answer without looking for any nuances.

[lapfog_1]

5. He lacks the emotional maturity to be in civil society

[UTUSN]

7. Nothing about it should be in the territories of "discussion, whether, trolling, meant-to/not, maturity... "

[hlthe2b]

8. Members of far right wing and Neo Nazi groups across the globe have congratulated him for the salute...

I think they know a Nazi salute when they see it. End of story, in my book.

[Ocelot II]

10. Bingo. It doesn't matter whether *he* thinks he's a Nazi - the important thing is

that Nazis think he's a Nazi.

[Mosby]

19. I agree with this.

Nt.

[calimary]

50. I'd guess they know it when they see it.

[JHB]

15. He's old enough to know better and for everyone to expect him to know better.

He does not deserve the benefit of the doubt. Not after supporting and amplifying neoNazis and RW parties. They recognize what he's doing. It's not even a dog whistle.

[Joinfortmill]

16. He's also a white supremacist

[RedWhiteBlueIsRacist]

17. Musk reeks of Nazism, so why not own up to the damn salute. Don't be PC dude, embrace your extended armness.

Last edited Thu Jan 23, 2025, 08:32 PM - Edit history (1)

There's nothing more pathetic than a racist who denies being a racist. Take Trump for example, he claims to be Mr. Tells It Like It Is, but has to mealy-mouth his racism by claiming he's not one. Own it dude, don't be PC!

[Voltaire2]

21. Here is the thing about the new Republican Party: they are fascists.

We can stop debating this.

[eShirl]

23. he's mainly a troll

and a dipshit

[applegrove]

26. He's a nazi.

[TNNurse]

28. If you watch the video and see his expression,

it is defiant. It is a nasty smirk. He has no redeeming qualities, and we are in big trouble.

[calimary]

55. Some people just like to stir shit up.

It seems to be mainly for the joy of stirring shit up.

I’ve never liked OR appreciated OR agreed with that.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

29. Nazis loved it, called it nazi. People who hated it called it nazi. All the people in between who went "meh"

With regard to all the people in between who went "meh", their opinion is not to be respected on this matter. Likewise the apologists for Muck. They are bowing and scraping the floor sycophants.

On balance, on net, it is clearly nazi.

I haven't heard Muck explain it or apologize or defy the pushback, but maybe he's done one of those things. Absent any clarification from Muck we have to go with the on balance adjudication: nazi.

[on edit:] He went with the defy-the-pushback route, trying to joke his way out of it, but tone-deaf and flat and even more revealing.

[Blue Full Moon]

30. He had just been with the AfD right before.

[John1956PA]

32. He always falls back on the excuse he has Asperger's disease.

He claims that the disease blocks his powers of cognition regarding how his actions and words appear to others.

Back in 2018, when he got into a web pi$$ing match with an expert working on the rescue of the teenagers in the partially flooded Thai cave, M referred to that expert as "ped0 man." After he was sued, Musk claimed that term has a lesser-offensive connotation in the southern hemisphere and, besides, he can not help himself sometimes because of his Asperger's disease.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

43. Only works for a moment. Even people w the syndrome can correct themselves & clarify the record

Muck does none of that. Sweeps it under the carpet and then denies the videos showing him doing just that.

[Irish_Dem]

62. This is sociopath behavior, not neurological.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

65. Precisely and accurately. . . . nt

[tulipsandroses]

56. For the people defending him, using Asperger's as an excuse, then they should do the same for Kanye.

Kanye has Bipolar disorder - during manic episodes, there can be delusions of self-importance or believing things that aren't true. Should he get a pass?

OR both things can be true?
Bipolar Disorder AND antisemite
Aspergers' AND antisemite

If musk cannot control himself in actions and words, then the USA should rethink handing him millions of dollars. Those contracts should go to others that don't have trouble controlling their words or actions.

[Irish_Dem]

61. I have known quite a few people with neurological diseases and not one of them pretended to be a nazi.

Musk is full of ______.

[Voltaire2]

83. Yeah well Asperger was a Nazi.

That term is no longer used, and Musk has never documented his claim.

Also, obviously, there is no link to autism spectrum disorder and fascist tendencies.

[louis-t]

33. He's trying to slowly normalize it.

He WILL do it again. The next time the outrage will be muted. And after that, and after that......

[paleotn]

36. Mistaken? He is one.

Afrikaners have deep nazi ties.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ossewabrandwag#:~:text='guard%2C%20picket%2C%20sentinel%2C,vocally%20supportive%20of%20Nazi%20Germany.

One of their main beefs with the Brits was the abolition of chattel slavery in the Cape Colony in 1834. They're such sweethearts.

[indigoth]

37. If

If it looks like a duck. Walks like a duck. Quacks like a duck …

[Evolve Dammit]

39. "lacks the emotional maturity..." This alone should be a blaring emergency siren to us all.

[bronxiteforever]

44. It was a Nazis salute. It is who he is.

Just 2 weeks ago Musk doubled down on support for German far-right leaders
Musk, who used his influence and vast wealth to propel Trump to victory in the 2024 White House race, has been vocal in his support for the AfD ahead of snap elections in Germany on February 23.

If he is not a Nazis why does he support them? He is the richest man in the world who is drunk on power, privilege and racism. There are no excuses for him. Even worse, he will work in Washington where across the Potomac our honored dead, who fought this type of thing, rest uneasy in Arlington. Shame on this country.

[hamsterjill]

49. I don't give one shit about his emotional maturity.

He’s a nutcase who should not be anywhere near a position of power. He’s dangerous.

[ancianita]

53. In Hannah Arendt's book, "The Origins of Totalitarianism," the Nazis

consciously built up an antisemitic movement in South Africa.

Elon is well educated, not at all ignorant of his home country's history that the Nazis' antisemitism there was always about Nazis lies against Jewish financiers, who'd been driven from Europe and were singled out for special hatred by the white Boers as a "race", and who had no economic influence that country.
Everyone in South Africa also knows SA was mob man Cecil Rhodes' country, when the English and Dutch used African slave labor in the diamond and gold mines they stole from Africans.

I've been to South Africa. There are mesas around Johannesburg like the tall ones we have out West (20-30 stories high) formed at the turn of the 20th century by generations of Africans slaving by hand in nearby gold mines, long before there were mining tools or rail cars for dumping mine waste.

Elon is almost as sickening a sight.

[DENVERPOPS]

57. Nothing like a

Nazi salute, to egg on the "White Power" crowd even more........

Isn't Musk from South Africa????????

[Jilly_in_VA]

60. OK, how about this?

He's a NAZI TROLL.

[ancianita]

66. Yep. You can take Elon out of Neo-Nazi South Africa

but you can't take the Neo-Nazi South Africa out of Elon.

[B.See]

81. Yes, Denver. And reportedly is a

paid subscriber to a racist S. African account.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/technology/elon-musk-is-reportedly-paid-subscriber-to-racist-pro-apartheid-x-account/ar-AA1wxvCf

For someone supposedly so smart, he doesn't know he's making a Nazi salute?? Right.

fuck this guy.

[canetoad]

59. He even did the two-part thing

When they thump their chest 'Seig' then the straight arm salute 'Heil'. Who is he trying to fool.

[LeftInTX]

67. Actions speak louder than gestures and his actions in Europe shows that he is aligned with Neo Nazis over there.

So with and without the salute, he's still a Neo Nazi POS.

[Tickle]

74. He's just so damn rich !

I mean filthy rich. he thinks he can do whatever he wants to do. Pisses me off

[Beringia]

76. Anselm Keifer artist, had to share

Détail, Symboles Héroïques, 1969, Anselm Kiefer

Anselm Kiefer was born in Donaueschingen, Germany, in March 1945. He lives and works in France. In 1969, he photographed himself giving the Nazi salute in France, Switzerland and Italy to protest the silence on this issue in the post-war years. He represented Germany at the 1980 Venice Biennale, alongside George Baselitz. His works are vibrant, his tones are muted, he uses various materials (straw, wood, plants …), his forms are disproportionate, forcing the viewer to enter completely into the painting or sculpture.

https://blog.artsper.com/en/a-closer-look/10-things-you-should-know-about-anselm-kiefer/