Experts, education, science have no value in America's new fascist regime.

[Irish_Dem]

In fascist regimes the educated are considered a serious threat to the regime,
the educated are painted as a societal evil and must be destroyed.

(In contrast, in a democracy, education is revered because a democracy cannot
exist without an educated populace. )

Truth, reality, right and wrong must be eradicated in a fascist regime.

Hitler killed the educated elite first thing when he invaded Poland.

Stalin in Russia did a great purge, including the intellectuals, killed or sent to camps.

China also did a great purge, calling it the cultural revolution.
The educated were killed or sent to concentration camps for the rest of their lives doing hard labor.

Two new neighbors where I live are an older Chinese couple, who fled China recently.

The husband is an educated, very smart journalist who wrote less than complementary
articles about the Chinese government. Basically they left China with the clothes on their
back, left all their valuables behind.

If he returns to China he will be arrested or worse.

His father was one of the university professors arrested during the great purge
and sent to labor camps for the rest of his life. I will spare you the grisly details.

[MayReasonRule]

1. Our Freedoms Are Reason Based. When Delusion Rules Our Freedoms Cease To Exist In Application

Our country's long and sordid history of enshrining "closely held beliefs" a.k.a. delusion as the rule of law has brought us to today.

Reason gives birth to reason.
Delusion gives birth to delusion.

It is impossible to reason with those that reject reason itself.

May reason rule.

[no_hypocrisy]

2. And perhaps, most egregiously, LOGIC/CRITICAL THINKING has no place in

America's new fascist regime.

Lies are Truth. Lies are "Alternative Facts". Facts are Lies. Inconsistency is complex rationality.

And in court cases that go up to the USSC, precedence is discretionary.

I remember when I first started to notice this: George W. Bush and his AG, Alberto Gonzalez. As White House counsel, then as Bush's hand-picked attorney general, Gonzales championed policies that eroded civil liberties protections. After September 11, he authored a memo that dismissed the Geneva Conventions prohibiting torture as "quaint" and "obsolete," urging "flexibility" to interpret international law as the Bush administration saw fit.
https://www.aclusocal.org/en/news/alberto-gonzales-legacy

[Irish_Dem]

3. Yes also remember the "weapons of mass destruction" lies to promote the invasion of Iraq.

And lying that Iraq was tied to 9/11?

Most of the American people bought the lies or didn't care.
They loved the idea of bombing brown people to hell and back even if they were totally innocent.

So yes, the degrading of US morality and logic has been a work in progress.

[rubbersole]

8. But, but yellow cake...

...and oil. Lots and lots of oil. Rumsfeld wanted to use 9/11 to attack Iraq. On 9/12.

[Irish_Dem]

22. And funnel a huge amount of money to his company Halliburton.

He was a con artist, who killed many people and ruined a country to get rich.
Along the lines of Putin.

[Blue Full Moon]

10. There were reports that proved that no WMD.

Bush had stated something about yellowcake in Cincinnati OH. Which ended up being the beginning of the Plame Affair.
IAEA report was released near or just before Cincinnati comments. But what was not known was the fact that under Ronald Reagan, the Iraqis were brought to the United States of America and were taught how to operate a gaseous diffusion plant. So during the war when some centrifuge components were found it wasn't too surprising. The first centrifuge plant was ended in 1985.

[Irish_Dem]

21. Yes this is why I put that in quotes. It was a total lie.

[Charging Triceratops]

27. Americans can't help buy the lies ...

when the corrupt and compromised media smothers the truth at every turn.

[Irish_Dem]

29. The US media is the propaganda arm of the PutinGOP.

The media does not work for the American people.

[barbtries]

11. for me it was an interview with Karl Rove,

I think it may have been in Vanity Fair, about that time.

He basically said out loud we create our own reality. I'm sure he's reveling today.

[Evolve Dammit]

16. That was a turning point. Thanks

[Simeon Salus]

4. This is the Vietnam story as well.

Kill all the local authority figures so the people have no one to guide them. Teachers, lawyers, clergy.

[Blue Full Moon]

5. Uneducated are easily controlled.

They want people who will do what they are told. Do it regardless if it's illegal. They don't want people who know their rights and their worth.

[Irish_Dem]

6. Yes exactly.

An educated populace is necessary for democracy to flourish.
Without education, people are easily led and fooled into believing evil is good and good is evil.

[Blue Full Moon]

13. Ohio has some insidious evangelicals

They believe that they should know nothing. That reading and learning is you trying to be God. They have willful ignorance that they are proud of. They take no responsibility whatsoever. That God puts people in power you should never question. Several years ago NASA had a meeting at COSI in getting children in to stem. Because we need all capable people working to solve things like climate change.

[Irish_Dem]

23. Yes NASA has been working hard on stem and especially getting women into stem.

One of my cousins is part of that educational program at NASA.

[Charging Triceratops]

28. I drove across Ohio two years ago ...

listening to talk radio, I could NOT believe the avalanche of lies and misinformation and hate I heard. I was angry at first, then deeply sad at what we've allowed America to become.

[Blue Full Moon]

33. Yes the media takeover has been complete.

All because of Nixon and wanting to go back and exonerate him. The media bias was the republicans didn't want people to know their illegal acts. Now they have the first convict president. But they still trying to pull off the law and order party.

[allegorical oracle]

7. Even decent, educated people can be naive. Many are reared to be trusting and to

think the best of people. Often, they've never encountered people like DJT -- who are so able to convincingly lie and cheat. Guess that's why the RW has considered libs to be "snowflakes".

But I prefer to believe the intelligent and educated populace will prevail. (Meanwhile, it may have to memorize books and travel somewhere to gather, survive, and restart democracy.)

[Irish_Dem]

9. Yes true. But education is the cornerstone of democracy.

The majority of people with a sound education in democratic principles, current events, history
are more likely to make informed choices in the voting booth.

Democracy also involves a moral core, a set of common values in rule of law,
honesty, public service and the common good.

Yes we may prevail, but history tells a great deal of damage can be done until it does.

The fight over democracy vs fascism killed over 75 million people during WWII.

[allegorical oracle]

14. Oh certainly. And perhaps that's a difference between MAGA followers and those

who aren't. They don't necessarily want to avoid fights while more educated people do. So they regard liberals (long labeled "peaceniks" or pacifists) to be wishy-washy weak while they are strong, macho, and willing to fight-fight-fight. DJT lit that fire in them.

I look at our situation as similar to being caught in an under-toe while you're swimming at the beach. To survive, a swimmer must go quiet -- relax as they're tossed around like laundry in a washing machine. It eventually releases so you can swim to shore. Swimmers who battle the water's force become exhausted and more likely to drown.

[Irish_Dem]

24. Good point.

The PutinMAGAs want to wear out and kill their opponents.

We should be careful about our strategy.

[Blue Full Moon]

17. One that the republicans have been eroding

Reagan attacked the Pell Grants. Then he had school reform agenda. In fact he stated that he wasn't sure that there was any legitimate federal function to be performed in education. The democrats wanted more funding for the schools but Reagan had the belief that demand and reward performance was the way. Which everyone knows does not. Then there was Bush jr leave every child behind. So I would have to say that teaching to a standardized test has cheated our children and grandchildren out of their education.

[LSparkle]

19. And to know how our system works ..

So people would know when XC makes false claims about what a president can do. So they would also know what only Congress has the power to do so they could recognize he’s lying.

[barbtries]

12. it's true.

I was over 40 before I even knew what a personality disorder is, because I was involved with a man whose behavior was like nothing I had ever experienced before.

got out alive after a year.

[surfered]

15. Nor empathy

[Irish_Dem]

25. Yes, empathy, kindness, respect, public service are now quaint old fashioned values.

They have no place in the new world we live in.

In fact these traits are seen as weak, only suckers and losers operate this way.

[Evolve Dammit]

18. The "Know Nothing" party in the 1800's lives on?

[multigraincracker]

20. Had a friend that was a professor that taught English as a Second Language.

He traveled all over the world and found that in America people have the least respect for teachers. This is historical and not just recently. Most other cultures see teachers more like we do doctors and lawyers.
Here it's low pay and "if you can't do, teach".
I can think of so many teachers that changed my life. Even with all of my learning disabilities, they recognized my talents I did have and encouraged me.

[Irish_Dem]

32. I agree.

I once had a Japanese neighbor living here in the US who was shocked at the how little teachers
here are valued. In Japan teachers are highly respected.

And yes I had teachers who were supportive and encouraged me.
And imparted life wisdom that helped me a great deal.

[OldBaldy1701E]

26. Here is part of the issue as I see it.

We have allowed the idea of 'education' to get away from 'learning how to think critically and honestly' with tons of facts that are useless without the ability to apply them. This was the first salvo from the rethugs, who want us all to be stupid and gullible. They started in on demanding that subjects be taught that had nothing to do with reasoning and critical thinking. They also decided to ruin standard subjects by coming up with crazy ways to do what used to be simple (i.e.: 'new math' and such things). They then removed the subjects that encouraged such skills over complaints about 'wokeness' and other stupid accusations. What we are left with is something that does not do what we created it to do.

All per their design. None of this is by accident.

We need to put an end to it. By any means necessary. Otherwise, we might as well all start wearing bright red 'MAGA' hats to keep us from being noticed.

[Irish_Dem]

30. Getting an education now is about making the billionaires richer.

Education must be about getting jobs which enrich corporations and make people good worker bees.

Critical thinking, logic, truth, public service, adding to society's fund of knowledge are seen as bad,
and old fashioned ideas.

[OldBaldy1701E]

31. Exactly! (n/t)

[Blue Full Moon]

35. That's why the student loans

It was a gift to the Koch brothers.

[Irish_Dem]

36. I wonder who gets rich on student loans?

[Blue Full Moon]

38. Koch's were the ones that fought Biden

Over the student loan forgiveness. But the Koch's were also the ones attacking our educational system. Charles Koch pushed to make our Universities to cost more. And now we have tech bros not wanting Americans to get degrees and they don't want to pay for our colleges because getting people from overseas is cheaper. Their plan all along was to break the American people to accept social class make them accept pay and benefits like we are in a third world country.

[Irish_Dem]

41. Americans are victims of ongoing scams designed to make the rich richer.

And to give the politicians more power.

Yes we are more like a third world country than other modern democracies.

[OldBaldy1701E]

42. Very true.

They want us to be serfs or worse. They don't care about anyone or anything but themselves.

[John1956PA]

39. "Outcome-Based Education" us an example of this.

The goal of OBE is to get graduating seniors to score as highly as possible on the standardized test administered as they conclude their high school studies. Traditional disciplines such as deriving geometry proofs have been discarded.

[bucolic_frolic]

34. Play dumb and get to work

protect you and yours. count your beans. your time will come when the system collapses from stupidity.

[Irish_Dem]

37. The billionaire scams and corruption of US politicians and judges will cause a collapse eventually?

[Blue Full Moon]

40. Sure, they are going to arrest themselves.

How much before Americans have had enough? Problem I see, is that we are there, but for the life of me, why they are putting their faith on the people that created their plight.

[Irish_Dem]

43. I agree, Americans seem to love being scammed, lied to and manipulated.

They keep voting the criminals back in office.
And buying the crap the rich corrupt billionaires sell.

[Hugin]

44. It's all a vulture signaling contest from here on out.

Which lamprey can attach itself to the posterior sweet spot of the Tangeranus and hold on the longest. AKA A spoils system.

This is precisely why I could never buy into science fiction plots where there was an evil alternate universe where a comparable level of technological advancements existed. Scientific advances require working together and an acceptance that one is fallible. It also necessitates a willingness to change based on evidence and an open mind.

A feature of totalitarian culture is how sclerotic they are and it would be far more likely that in an alternate reality where it had taken hold the citizens would be sitting around in an unlit cave warily grunting at each other. Sizing each other up for a weakness leading to them being the next meal.

[Blue_Tires]

46. exactly

[Irish_Dem]

47. Brilliant metaphors.

I am not sure I agree, I think that evil can dominate a world and succeed in some fashion.

But I hope your view is the correct one.

[Blue_Tires]

45. We're in a post-truth, post-fact society

and evidently this is what Americans wanted because we keep fucking voting for it..

[Irish_Dem]

48. Yes truth, reality, facts are no longer in vogue.

Every one now creates their very own reality.