General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsThe war is over, and we lost.
We may win a battle here or there going forward, but that's it. They won the war and will hold power over us for generations.
How? The courts.
Set aside the fact that, demographically, it looks like Democrats won't be able to come back from this. Trump is going to spend the next four years (at least) completing his stacking of the federal courts. The vast majority of the judges on our courts for the next 40 or 50 years will be MAGA.
And so even if the Democrats do make a comeback, and even if they are able to pass any type of progressive legislation -- be it environmental protections, civil rights, healthcare, you name it -- these MAGA judges will strike it down as "unconstitutional" for most of the remaining century. All while giving their stamp of approval to anything and everything the Cult of Trump does.
Tuesday night was a political Hiroshima. It was a blow we won't be able to recover from. Don't fool yourself, like so many of us have the past decade. There's no real chance of success after this.
SoCalDavidS
(10,498 posts)I think that T will get to appoint 7 to the SC before it's all done.
DSandra
(1,222 posts)The right wins because they stay united. Trying to unite the left is like herding cats. And now we all pay for it by losing our country. I hope you're happy, everyone on the left / Democrats who refused to vote for Kamala! You didn't value your country enough and your taking us down with you!
Dem4life1234
(1,457 posts)Because there are obviously more of US than their pea brained asses, yet we lost.
Now we all have to suffer.
DSandra
(1,222 posts)If your side loses the war, everyone else gets taken as prisoners to be sold into slavery. You suffer for the leader's failures. Life as a human being has been extremely extremely harsh throughout most of history.
Dems and the left pay lip service to "were all in this together", but constantly get swept up in a circular firing squad, while Reich wing rethuglicans march in lockstep, eyes on the prize, while exhorting us peasants to "rugged individualism"
Nixie
(17,377 posts)vote for anything to retain power.
We see now that white men are the new swing voters and many of them have been alienated by our party. The purism war on Democrats has taken its toll, and not just white men. The war on billionaires just made enemies out of them and now a triggered Musk is out of control. The war on boomers is picking up. Trump has picked up a lot of these disaffected voters
Thanks for this bit of drivel. For me, theyll have to pry my democracy from my cold dead hands!
do you not get it? WE ARE ALREADY WELL ON OUR WAY TO FASCISM
fantase56
(469 posts)Skittles
(158,548 posts)if you cannot see it that is VERY BAD INDEED
fantase56
(469 posts)Give up!! Surrender!! Bend the knee to the new overlords!
If youve lost hope, thats your choice. Im sure many in Europe thought that in 1939.
Skittles
(158,548 posts)you just DO NOT GET IT
DONE HERE
GenThePerservering
(2,609 posts)BannonsLiver
(17,863 posts)People will eventually get out of that mode.
When 45% of Latinos vote for Trump because "he doesn't mean me", why should I give a fuck? As a third generation US Citizen who is considered white, he certainly doesn't mean me.
0rganism
(24,615 posts)Sorry but we live in a society and that society decided to try out other ideas about government. Your democracy has been slipping through your warm living fingers for decades and even now, as the last few grains threaten to slip away into history, you'll seek (and perhaps find) solace in denial and defiance of the plain truth that democracy is far too weighty and fragile to be carried alone. Nonetheless, the rising autocrats may tolerate or encourage such self-delusion for a time.
Colgate 64
(14,840 posts)and tolerate it for a time. But make no mistake - the oligarchs who are now firmly in control of the government will do everything in their considerable power to reshape it until it's own Mother wouldn't recognize it. Alarmism? Just look to Hungary. Notionally a democracy they still have all the trappings of one. There are elections, courts, laws and the press. But a democracy?
Hardly.
Skittles
(158,548 posts)it's like, how do we fight something half the people cannot even see?
LeftInTX
(29,948 posts)It sucks awful, but I'm not going anywhere.
I know the courts are gone for the rest of my life. We will not have Democratic court for another 30 years or so.
Pototan
(1,993 posts)that we shouldn't beat ourselves up. We better get used to living in the minority. Oh, we may control the House in a couple of years, and even have a Democrat in the White House next cycle or two.
But the Supreme Court (and the lower courts) is where the power is. It doesn't take Nostradamus to see that Thomas and Alito will retire during Trump's term, especially with the Republican control of the Seante. They will be replaced by 2 new justices (I bet one will be Latino) who are as Conservatives (or, if it's possible, more so) than the retiring Justices. both replacements will be in their 40's.
Since they have this down pat, where when the President is a Republican and they control the Senate, their oldest Justices retire and are replaced by younger, like-minded justices.
We, on the other hand, have Justices who remain until they die, and their replacements are decided by fate.
They have a plan, sorta like the "overturn Roe" 50-year plan. But we have hope. That and $5 will get you a coffee at Starbucks
LeftInTX
(29,948 posts)The Firefighters control the city via collective bargaining. For about 7 years, there was no agreement, so in 2018, they decided to get revenge via a series of charter amendments. One amendment hamstrung the city manager's pay. The amendment passed in the Nov election.
Pretty grim for the future. But guess what? The city got crafty and proposed another amendment to undo the 2018 amendment. The Firefighters put up a huge stink and were camped out at every polling site. Lo and behold, six years later on Nov 5, 2024, the new amendment passed against all odds. We are not doomed.
I know it's not the Supreme Court etc, but I was shocked.
Pototan
(1,993 posts)and every firefighter and police officer I know is a Trumper.
I was a union officer and a union political operative. Police and Fire only want solidarity when it suits them.
You chose a bad example/.
LeftInTX
(29,948 posts)But were defeated on Nov 5th.
Our FF are also mostly GOP.
Pototan
(1,993 posts)Start to worry about you and yours. If you live in a restrictive abortion state and have a daughter, set up a secret saving's account if you have to leave the state. Remember, reproductive rights are not just to terminate an unwanted pregnancy, but to safeguard against complications in a planned one.
When I looked at the exit polls and saw 45% of women and 45% of Latinos for Trump, that's did it for me.
I made more enemies with my family defending young black men during the George Floyd murder. This year, just one cycle after Floyd, Trump received a higher percentage of black votes than any Republican since Nixon. One cycle after Dobbs, Trump got 45% of the female vote. One cycle after child separation at the border. And Muslims, don't get me started. I nearly got in a fistfight with a cousin 8 years ago defending them during the proposed ban. This year, they abandoned Harris. I worked against all right to work laws and promoted union issues. they voted against us.
None of this personally affects me. As a 72-year-old married 20 years (wife 69) living in a foreign country. I'm not as active as I used to be, as I'm 6,000 miles away. I'm retired with no children and a great pension. I sent the Democrats $1,000 and sent in my overseas ballot.
I voted for McGovern in 1972 and every Democrat since and I will continue. But this is the most disjointed I've ever been. Not by our candidate or our party. But the people we're fighting for are fighting against us. What's the point?
During the pandemic there was a web site that had posts from all the anti-vexers who died from covid and wanted a shot when it was too late. That's what I'm going to do here. Watch all the groups who will suffer by their bad choice while I live in comfort
Colgate 64
(14,840 posts)you really don't understand the gravity of the situation. What is going to be cold and dead IS democracy.
republianmushroom
(17,406 posts)enid602
(9,020 posts)But the spoils will not be shared with the victors supporters. No one will care four years from now whether or not they feel they were better off four years prior.
republianmushroom
(17,406 posts)They will reap the spoils.
pat_k
(10,846 posts)Last edited Fri Nov 8, 2024, 09:56 PM - Edit history (1)
Call me naïve. Call me an idiot. Call me whatever.
People connected to their basic common humanity who believe in the power of people to shape a better society, regardless of the regime they find themselves in, are a mighty force.
What some of those people accomplish may not be visible to "everyone" but the people doing the accomplishing -- whether those accomplishments are big or small -- prove their own power to themselves with every action they take and with every person they connect with as they multiply the effect of their actions.
PortTack
(34,539 posts)Cha
(305,111 posts)I think about it.
I will Not get into that Gloom & Doom business.
In the mean time we have Family & Friends & DU!
flamingdem
(39,881 posts)Hugs
Cha
(305,111 posts)pat_k
(10,846 posts)Last edited Fri Nov 8, 2024, 10:21 PM - Edit history (1)
1. Mourn. That will take all kinds of forms. Lashing out in anger or despair included, but we can help support each other in ways that ultimately preserve hope and reject the cynicism that immobilizes. Which leads to #2
2. Take care of each other. Support each other and share ideas for staying sane and engaged over the coming months and years.
3, Take care of ourselves. Encourage each other to connect with things that nourish us -- personally. We need to rebuild our strength.
4. Keep an eye on developments. I think there are going to be some creative things emerging that promote citizens working together in ways to shape their communities, shape attitudes, and accomplish some pretty great things, both large and small. I highly recommend this book for inspiration.
Cha
(305,111 posts)Healing & Moving Forward in a Positive Way.
I'm going to copy them and read them or Text them to my sister in Asheville, who will certainly appreciate them, too. She was so upset yesterday like we are, of course.
But she wants to do the same.. she doesn't take bad situations laying down.
That link to the "This Book" just goes to Google..
2. Take care of each other. Support each other and share ideas for staying sane and engaged over the coming months and years.
3, Take care of ourselves. Encourage each other to connect with things that nourish us -- personally. We need to rebuild our strength.
4. Keep an eye on developments. I think there are going to be some creative things emerging that promote citizens working together in ways to shape their communities, shape attitudes, and accomplish some pretty great things, both large and small. I highly recommend this book for inspiration.
pat_k
(10,846 posts)"this book" should now link to the correct google entry.
More about it here:
https://www.thegoodlobby.eu/resources/lobbying-for-change/
Cha
(305,111 posts)Dem4life1234
(1,457 posts)It is we absolutely much needed. I'm trying to keep it together as the thought of that hideous pedo and weird woman hating couch sniffer makes me hurl. I think If it were moderate Republicans I would not have felt so bad. I just hate these two assholes
pat_k
(10,846 posts)Which was to this book, available anywhere:
Lobbying for Change
Find your voice to create a better society
Alberto Alemanno
https://www.thegoodlobby.eu/resources/lobbying-for-change/
Find your voice to create a better society.
Many democratic societies are experiencing a crisis of faith. Citizens are making clear their frustration with their supposedly representative governments, which instead seem driven by the interests of big business, powerful individuals and wealthy lobby groups.
What can we do about it? How do we fix democracy and get our voices heard?
From successfully challenging Facebooks use of private data to abolishing EU mobile phone roaming charges, Alberto Alemanno highlights the stories of those who have lobbied for change, and shows how you can follow in their footsteps, whether you want to influence immigration policy, put pressure on big business or protect your local community...
Quixote1818
(30,353 posts)Pototan
(1,993 posts)in about 40 or 50 years.
Tribetime
(6,285 posts)And I refuse to live without hope and happiness I will always try to overcome....they will not define me..nobody can but me
Frank D. Lincoln
(594 posts)On the other hand We the People hold the potential of getting us out of it eventually, although the odds are not good under the current circumstances.
If there really is such a thing as free will, the future is not set.
pat_k
(10,846 posts)I just re-read and posted some timeless quotes that remind us of our own power.
https://www.democraticunderground.com/100219690770
Human history is full of accomplishments against all odds.
I didn't include one of my favorite quotes from Firefly in the above:
Colgate 64
(14,840 posts)to have been somewhat absent a few days ago.
pat_k
(10,846 posts)NEOBuckeye
(2,815 posts)These bastards will overreach. Believe it. You know it. We all know it.
When they do, we need to be ready.
Be pissed, yes. But it's a new day, and a new level of fight for us, if we choose it.
LiberaBlueDem
(1,148 posts)Hell NO the fight has just begun!
In It to Win It
(9,450 posts)That means we are stuck with Trump and a republican senate for the next 4 years. 2016 and now 2024 were make or break elections for the courts, and we lost both times.
There are the usual North Carolina, Maine and Texas. Those all have strongly funded and well-known incumbents. Then on top of that we have to defend Michigan and Georgia. Georgia still leans Republican even though we were able to pull out a few wins there. Everything else is a largely safe blue state and safe red state.
Here's my recent post on this:
Let's look forward to 2026. Considering the GOP's 53-seat majority, where are we taking 4 seats from?
Even when the map is more favorable to us, we're still mostly playing defense.
pat_k
(10,846 posts)People are cynical and alienated from their own government. The most effective way to challenge the anger and frustration is through connecting and working with others to shape a better society -- in ways large and small. Prove what people-power can accomplish by accomplishing things.
https://books.google.com/books/about/Lobbying_for_Change.html
Oopsie Daisy
(4,449 posts)"By the time you read this... "
Bread and Circuses
(154 posts)I volunteered, donated and gave my heart and soul for VP Harris. Im very proud of her and all who voted for her.
Im in a blue state, for now. In 20 years maybe not.
The experimented started by the founding fathers died in our watch.
I apologize to the young. I tried. All the Time. Ill continue to resist.
No one is coming to save us.
We will all die and perhaps thats will we find what we yearn for. Clearly, the people of earth prefer chaos, greed, violence and lies.
I know
not everyone
but theres enough to poison the globe.
pat_k
(10,846 posts)It is hard to connect to hope and power in that state.
Take care of yourself.
Watch a tender movie and have a good cry. ("A Dog's Purpose" did me a world of good).
Take a little time. I hope that with a break, you will again find your faith in the mighty power of people who stay connected to their common humanity and connect with each to take some action toward building a better society, in ways large and small.
And when you have the energy, perhaps you'll find some inspiration here:
https://books.google.com/books/about/Lobbying_for_Change.html
Elessar Zappa
(15,761 posts)I wont. And saying theyll hold power for generations is absolutely ridiculous.
meadowlander
(4,701 posts)Nothing that Trump is actually going to do is going to help the people who voted for him. I'm actually feeling pretty confident for 2028. If there is an election at all, we will win it handily.
This was a "throw the bums out" election result from low information voters pissed off about inflation. The next one will be rough on the incumbent party as well.
It's easy to run on a platform of "government is bad, let's burn it all down". It's a lot harder to govern from that platform.
There's going to be another pandemic or severe weather event or another financial meltdown or a war Trump can't avoid us getting sucked into and it will expose their incompetence over and over again. He's going to die or become so undeniably demented that the 25th Amendment will be invoked.
Their positions are toxic, and not supported by the majority of Americans. JD Vance does not have what it takes to sell them any more than Ron DeSantis did.
They can pack the courts and we can unpack them when its our turn.
flamingdem
(39,881 posts)Once he's gone they have is Vance and he's not up to the task.
We'll be back winning in four years.
Dem4life1234
(1,457 posts)Trying to hold it together
Colgate 64
(14,840 posts)lying is certainly something they are very proficient in. They won because Doofus told them what they wanted to hear - that the country they "so love" has gone to hell in a handbasket and know why? It's because of THEM. You know THEM - the people that took "yours" from you to give it to THEM. Those people (or probably not even really people) that don't look like you or sound like you or pray like you. And Doofus told the truth - he's going to be the Vindicator, Your Retribution against all of THEM that are responsible for whatever complaints you have with your present life. And the morons smiled, ate it all up and ran out to vote for him in droves.
pat_k
(10,846 posts)About their attempt to purge talent and experience from the executive branch perhaps offering an opportunity to put a stake in the heart of "Government" being "the problem."
https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=19690549
TheKentuckian
(25,994 posts)We sure are not likely to get beyond the temporary clean up crew to be scapegoated for the mess they made if we continue to be hidebound and refuse to change the game.
If we are bold and ruthless with power when and if we get it then we have a fighting chance.
If not, it is fake sugar highs that accomplish near zero progress and ever lower lows and you will be dead on.
IbogaProject
(3,611 posts)Our CO2 and Methane levels are rising more rapidly that any time except for the catastrophic Premerin Extinction back Hundreds of Billions of years before land animals. These climate flips even slight ones to ice ages happen over maybe a dozen years, we are already part way through that now. There is enough methane to raise our worldwide temperature up 20 or more degrees, if it goes much beyond that our water may just evaporate. It is frightening how little most people understand or believe of this. We haven't been above 400 ppm CO2 in over 30 million years and this increase is way faster than any of the major previous climate shifts. This is happening too fast for plants and animals to keep up. at best we will have a catastrophe and some small bunch of humans will survive. check out https://arctic-news.blogspot.com/ and look around if you want facts, we are at the time where the methane hydrate will melt from under the arctic ocean and it may be game over for life on earth, or at best hell on earth. The only way this even doesn't end in mass death is if we get an ice age reset, but that outlook isn't good, there may be too much co2 already for that to help. And that will just be a brief killing cold spell in the northern hemisphere before the warming resumes. The power's that be knew this in the 1970s Carter had a plan with 1970s tech to get off foreign oil by 2000, but Reagan closed that door of hope. After that campaign finance laws were loosened and we've had pro oil president after the next until Joe Biden tried to get enough green tech to try and head off this crisis.
cachukis
(2,617 posts)Ponietz
(3,272 posts)It was 125 degrees in Delhi this summer. Catastrophic crop failures loom. Billions will die. At least Republicans have a plan entente with Russia, a southern border wall, aggressive moves toward Canada, seizing Greenland, and telling the rest of the world to fuck off. The meek will not inherit the earth.
DontBelieveEastisEas
(1,076 posts)What will it be like in 100 years?
yourout
(8,027 posts)Trigger a FDR like response.
And the next crash is going to be a doozy.
The guard rails are gone.
SunSeeker
(53,581 posts)wcmagumba
(3,115 posts)I can do many things as an individual to help both myself and others through the difficult times ahead. Gonna stay happy and healthy as possible and not let the raging maga haters get to me...F em....
DontBelieveEastisEas
(1,076 posts)stillcool
(32,710 posts)shit happens every damn day. The future is unknowable. By anyone. Future Events Are not Real. Be grateful for what you have, be kind, and do something nice every now and then just because.
Rhiagel
(1,739 posts)Democrats will bail the country out as usual. Assuming we have free and fair elections in the future. TBD.
LostOne4Ever
(9,592 posts)They owned everything for decades and It looked like the Dems were a dead party.
Then the Great Depression happened and Dems conquered all. Even the judiciary turned our way.
This isnt to say you are wrong but that it is possible to come back even from this if luck favors us enough.
Du916
(9 posts)It just went cold for 150 years, and the Confederacy won on Tuesday.
angrychair
(9,689 posts)This last 2 years, at most. Do you forget how hopelessly incompetent these people are? His first term was a complete shit show.
They are already screwing it up.
For goodness sakes FoxNews hosts are already openly talking about hanging people.
Other MAGA types are harassing and attacking people.
Mortgage interest rates are already rising.
TSF is already talking about attacking people that are critical of his company (his private company is not covered under presidential immunity)
TSF is going full steam on rounding up people to deport them. This is already starting to drive up food prices. Go look.
There is already infighting between some of his inner circle (lewandowski and bannon)
17 state governments are already forming a collective defense fund.
This is all before he has even taken office. It is already devolving into a complete dumpster fire and he isn't even in office yet.
There are already lots of stories of people regretting their vote.
Historically speaking MAGA types don't come out and vote in midterms in the an election that doesn't include TSF.
The midterms will be blowout for Democrats.
I am completely confident in that assessment.
In It to Win It
(9,450 posts)We'll probably get to nomination and confirm judges without any meaningful Democratic opposition for his entire term.
angrychair
(9,689 posts)Democrats in the Senate have been filling judgeships pretty much non-stop. More than any one term president in history.
According to the US Courts there are only 47 open seats with 17 pending. (Reference: https://www.uscourts.gov/judges-judgeships/judicial-vacancies/current-judicial-vacancies)
In the 2026 midterms there are 20 Republican seats coming up for election and with TSF in office I would suspect at least 10 of them are potentially vulnerable. They have 2 years and that's it.
Those two years are going to suck, a lot but at some point we need to get our composure back, pick our head up and get back to work.
In It to Win It
(9,450 posts)I'm talking about all the potential vacancies to come. During his term 250 judges will become eligible for senior status. Many of them are Republican appointees and will retire when Republicans take control.
The popular expectation is that Clarence Thomas and Sam Alito will retire at some point during his term, which means he will have appointed 5 justices to the Supreme Court who are young to serve for the next 30 years. Any hope we had of waiting Clarence Thomas and Sam Alito out is gone, because they weren't leaving under a Democratic president unless they died or physically couldn't do the job anymore. They're both in their mid-70s. They will likely be pressured to retire.
The 2026 map, at best, has 3 pickup opportunities (ME, TC, NC). Everywhere else is a safe red state that even a fuck-up like Donald Trump can't help us flip.
angrychair
(9,689 posts)I feel you. I understand that feeling perfectly. I'm not going down the doom and gloom road. I'm not conceding the country to these morons.
While they may replace some of them I don't see Republicans holding onto the Senate in 2026.
We will just have to agree to disagree on this.
StarryNite
(10,773 posts)the Republicans, their party is dead. MAGA took over and now they are having to kiss Dump's ass. At least we still have a party.
StarryNite
(10,773 posts)the Republicans, their party is dead. MAGA took over and now they are having to kiss Dump's ass. At least we still have a party.
Pinback
(12,869 posts)Trashing thread.
confoosed
(36 posts)That's over 430 judges in an 8 year span. When do we run out of open positions to be appointed?
oldmanlynn
(332 posts)Put your boots back on. Have to fight back.
hadEnuf
(2,654 posts)We are still trying to get murderous thugs to think with their hearts.
orangecrush
(21,624 posts)Hold on to your ass.
Pototan
(1,993 posts)I know that the misogynists, racists and bigots would vote for Trump. But I didn't expect so many of their victims would join them.
Just one example: Floridians voted 57% to reject the 6-week abortion ban, 3% short of ratification. Yet 57% voted for Trump. "Chickens overwhelmingly support Colonel Sanders".
Tribetime
(6,285 posts)fantase56
(469 posts)run in circles, scream and shout. Thats what the republicans want us to do .. I wont play!
vercetti2021
(10,395 posts)The war is just starting. Fascism will lose in the end.
iemanja
(54,728 posts)The war is not over.
NoMoreRepugs
(10,490 posts)versus the contraction of fact based reality doesnt bode well for the future. Algorithms dictate what far too many people read and see to support their already twisted beliefs. IMO that is going to be damn near impossible to overcome.
Skittles
(158,548 posts)AMERICA DID
we will ALL feel the pain - Trump humpers are just to stupid to figure it out
JoseBalow
(5,007 posts)Japan recovered from Hiroshima pretty damn well...
We will recover from this, but there will be pain.
Blue_Roses
(13,366 posts)Go sell your damn gloom-n-doom on down the road, because it may look bleak right now, but we ALWAYS rise from the ashes.
I'm so sick of these obvious posts.
GenThePerservering
(2,609 posts)blue policies (as long as they don't know they are blue) - how far do you think these reds are going to get before there is serous unrest. Recall the violence of the last Trump admin.
Jumping on the doom wagon may bring a little drama to our lives, but it's premature.
BannonsLiver
(17,863 posts)Hotler
(12,091 posts)on the first play of the game and saying, fuck it, I'm going home. Winners pick themselves up.
Initech
(101,766 posts)And the Federalist Society. Project 2025 is going to do to the United States what Osama Bin Laden only dreamed of doing.