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markpkessinger

(8,553 posts)
Fri Nov 8, 2024, 08:27 AM 6 hrs ago

Election post-mortem nonsense

I have seen and heard countless election post-mortems over the last several days, and frankly, I don't really buy any of them. I see where Bernie Sanders has come out with some pretty blistering criticism of the leadership of the Democratic Party, saying essentially that the shift towards Trump on the part of African American and Latino men is because the party abandoned labor.

While I think that criticism of the party is valid, I don’t think that fully accounts for the shift, particularly among Black and Latino men. And neither is that criticism exactly new. Look, the Democratic Party abandoned organized labor in the 1990s, when, concerned at how much corporate money was flowing to Republicans, they went in search of their own share of corporate largesse. And they did that largely by dropping organized labor concerns from the party platform entirely, and they never really restored it (although Biden was the most pro-labor president we’ve had since Johnson). But I’m not convinced that even if the party had warmly reembraced labor, that it would have made enough of a difference in the 2024 election. Actually, I think the real moment when those concerns could have had a major impact was in 2016, when Bernie challenged Hillary in the primary. But I think that moment has long passed.

I don’t believe this election was lost on policy issues, nor the economy, nor because of liberals being “too condescending,” nor because of pronouns or the rights of trans persons, nor any of the other Monday-morning quarterback explanations. All of these explanations start with the assumption that there was a rational basis for voters to make the choice they made. But if you buy into, say, Bernie's explanation, for example, how does voting for Republicans in general, let alone Trump, make any rational sense at all?

And for those who say "identity politics" caused Democrats to lose, I would point out that the only candidate who has even been talking at any length about, say DEI, pronouns and trans people has been Trump.

No, I think there is something much deeper -- and far darker -- going on here. For certain voters – and evidently far more voters than I ever realized – Trump appeals to the id. These voters actually like Trump's bottomless vulgarity and non-stop cruelty. They didn't vote for him because of his "policies" or any of the other reasons people are citing. They voted for him knowing exactly who and what he is, because they truly LIKE his worst attributes! They love him because he hates the same people they hate, and because he provides a permission structure for them to be open about many of their most vile bigotries!

Trump is the embodiment of what is commonly called “toxic masculinity.” And toxic males appeal to other toxic males in a big way. (And let’s be honest: both the African American and Latino communities have their share of “toxic males.”) And if you don’t like the term “toxic masculinity,” then I will throw out another term coined by the New York Times: hegemonic masculinity. By whatever term you call it, it refers to an expression of masculinity (and particular white Christian masculinity) that is pathetically insecure in the face of strong women or non-traditional males operating on a level playing field with them.

Sorry, but I will listen to no more excuses for these folks!

There have already been, and will continue to be in the coming days and months, no shortage of persons coming out with their prescriptions for what Democrats need to do going forward. Many of them will try to tell us, in effect, that if we want to win elections, we will have to become more like Republicans: that we will have to abandon our concern for the fair and equal treatment of the historically marginalized and oppressed, or that we need to stop talking about abortion. These kinds of prescriptions must be emphatically resisted, because these issues, regardless of the political challenges they represent, are far bigger than merely questions of political success or failure; these are fundamental questions of basic human decency and of right versus wrong! If Democrats cease to defend these values, there will be no one left in this country who will do so!

And finally, I reject out of hand those who offer glib assurances to the effect that "we'll be fine" or that "everything will be okay." You don't know that and I don't know that, and neither does anyone else!

6 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
Election post-mortem nonsense (Original Post) markpkessinger 6 hrs ago OP
'They love him because he hates the same people they hate, elleng 6 hrs ago #1
Yes gab13by13 6 hrs ago #2
"how does voting for Republicans in general, let alone Trump, make any rational sense at all? " Intractable 6 hrs ago #3
I kept wondering during the weeks of the yorkster 5 hrs ago #4
Thank you. Well done with this post! DemonGoddess 5 hrs ago #5
I see that Carville is among those advising Democrats to tack to the right . . . markpkessinger 5 hrs ago #6

elleng

(135,777 posts)
1. 'They love him because he hates the same people they hate,
Fri Nov 8, 2024, 08:32 AM
6 hrs ago

and because he provides a permission structure for them to be open about many of their most vile bigotries!'

Intractable

(388 posts)
3. "how does voting for Republicans in general, let alone Trump, make any rational sense at all? "
Fri Nov 8, 2024, 08:33 AM
6 hrs ago

Because there is an ever-growing, hegemonic, media empire that propagandizes them into believing nonsense.

>> Trump appeals to the id. These voters actually like Trump's bottomless vulgarity and non-stop cruelty.

For many of them, most of the time, this is true. They see themselves in him. Trump gives them permission to be their worst selves.

yorkster

(2,343 posts)
4. I kept wondering during the weeks of the
Fri Nov 8, 2024, 08:59 AM
5 hrs ago

election build up, why almost no one was saying anything like what you have so well and clearly laid out in your post.

We'll never know the real number of voters
who support Trump because they damn well love the racism and misogyny, the bluster and crassness. The whole vile package.

Sadly and to our shame, the numbers would appear to be legion.

Thank you for your thoughtful and disturbing post. No indeed, we have no idea of what's been fully unleashed this time around.








DemonGoddess

(5,071 posts)
5. Thank you. Well done with this post!
Fri Nov 8, 2024, 09:01 AM
5 hrs ago
No, I think there is something much deeper -- and far darker -- going on here. For certain voters – and evidently far more voters than I ever realized – Trump appeals to the id. These voters actually like Trump's bottomless vulgarity and non-stop cruelty. They didn't vote for him because of his "policies" or any of the other reasons people are citing. They voted for him knowing exactly who and what he is, because they truly LIKE his worst attributes! They love him because he hates the same people they hate, and because he provides a permission structure for them to be open about many of their most vile bigotries!


That, right there, encapsulates it. His vileness allows the fucking morons who were hidden in their vileness, to do so openly. No matter who it hurts.

markpkessinger

(8,553 posts)
6. I see that Carville is among those advising Democrats to tack to the right . . .
Fri Nov 8, 2024, 09:06 AM
5 hrs ago

. . . I would remind folks that Carville was among those who advised Democrats to abandon their commitment to labor in the 1990s. That decision, while perhaps tactically useful from a political standpoint in the moment, was, in the long run, a strategic disaster for Democrats!

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