I have lifelong friends who voted for Trump. They don't pay much attention to politics

[Quixote1818]

They are low information voters, they have kids and are busy. They aren't prejudiced but not exactly intellectual masterminds but not bad people. They have struggled with money their entire lives. They said they voted for Trump because they thought he would make shit happen and they hate the slow grind of how the Gov. works.

What this tells me is that all you have to be is a carnival barker to win these people. They just want someone to make them think that person is going to go in with a wrecking ball to the system. Dems need to learn how to play this game at least a bit! But most importantly we need to actually do something for these people. They deserve representation.

[happybird]

1. Yep

And I’ve heard the “he’s a great businessman” comment several times from coworkers who don’t follow politics.

[surfered]

2. It's a habit, a reflex. They vote Republican like the hamster hits the pedal for food.

[TheKentuckian]

72. One can same the same for child molesters, women beaters, and rapists

They just have to scratch their itches.

The excuses are not helpful.

[TwilightZone]

3. There are millions of people like that out there.

We chronically underestimate how significant a factor they are. They're not all stupid, gullible, ignorant, or however we want to label them. Many are apolitical or busy or incurious or easily influenced by the shiny object. Or any combination of those things and more.

[KnoxVol]

8. Well said

Last edited Thu Nov 7, 2024, 07:01 PM - Edit history (1)

It doesn’t make sense to us who live it or are intellectually curious and/or engaged in the process. But its real.

I know more than a few people who just downright didn’t like either candidate for various reasons and sat it out completely.

It’s something we are going to have to address long term if we are to be successful as a party.

[TwilightZone]

14. One of my best friends insists that "government" is the problem.

He doesn't see beyond that and can't be convinced otherwise. He votes D when he does vote, because he's just inherently more on our side than the other.

The funny thing is that I can't really argue with the logic. Government is a big problem where lots of things are concerned, but there's a reason why that's the case, and the right is almost always to blame. They live to obstruct.

[Ferrets are Cool]

76. That goes all the way back to Raygun.

I hate that MF'er.

[TwilightZone]

87. Yep.

He definitely lit the fuse.

[Native]

83. The intellectually curious and/or engaged are a dying breed

And there weren't that many of us to begin with.

[TheKentuckian]

65. It all spends exactly the same for me.

More rounds of excuses for the selfish, reckless, stupid, hateful, regressive shitheels because "tribe".

They are shit no matter the spin as are the narcissist anti civilization fuckheads that stayed home.

They do not have ignorance, being apolitical, incurious, or easily influenced as an excuse this time and making it for them is a hint that in the end they will be sided with by the excuse makers or that option is at least on the table because the arsonists is on the "the friends" list or will be at Thanksgiving dinner.

They may be your friends but they are not mine.

[walkingman]

4. Some people blame politics for their personal problems.

[rubbersole]

42. Joe Biden didn't make my wife come back.

That damn Obama!

[Mike 03]

5. When I was growing up, one thing I heard people say

was that even though voting was really important and a societal obligation, there was no shame in leaving blank a particular position or issue if I didn't have enough information to make an educated decision.

[Ontheboundry]

6. My best friend is a doctor in Michigan

And voted for Trump this time

He doesn't always vote R, and is probably a true independent as he voted for obama.once and Biden

We don't talk politics a lot but he said "I didn't want anyone attached to Biden"

[jfz9580m]

49. I don't get the amount of ire directed at Biden

I mean he inherited a mess left by Trump and Covid and managed to turn things around a lot.

Except on Gaza he has done stuff to even include the progressive wing of the party. AOC and Bernie were backing him. He appointed Lina Khan.

He was about as progressive as he could be working inside the existing system. I guess that really pissed off the right wing.

[Ontheboundry]

63. Our vision apparently isn't reality

To a good chunk of the world. I live in a dark red area,.so I get to see it up close. One thing that does concern me is how many on our side of the aisle paint the other side with a broad brush

[jfz9580m]

64. One thing that does concern me is how many on our side of the aisle paint the other side with a broad brush

I agree with this. Reality is complex and people are complex and frustrating.

I do paint Vought, Trump, Vance, Musk, Greene, Boebert, Carlson, the entire GOP and movement players as evil. But I like to minimize the number of humans I see as evil or stupid rather than trapped in this foul reality and not thinking straight.
It is not as if my thinking is anything but very flawed.

I get the frustration here though. I get many points of view though I do only think there are a fairly narrow set of things that make sense when the choice is as stark as between Harris or any democrat and Trump.

People like Marjorie Greene are not people who should be in any position of power. Marjorie Greene attacking Fauci and getting applauded..that is insane.

At least when things are this stark, a populace needs to be able to tell and we are not there.

[Ontheboundry]

66. I live in the county that borders mtg

District. Whew......they can't even primary her out with a special forces Republican vet who is more moderate. She destroyed him

I think the Dems didn't even put someone forward this year

[jfz9580m]

69. they can't even primary her out with a special forces Republican vet who is more moderate

Good god..so basically more respectable Republicans are now just not acceptable huh?

Man..

[Ontheboundry]

71. Not yet...lol

She's worse than trump tbh, and they don't give a single f

I live in a different state (Tennessee) but our two districts border each other

Another thing about her district is it's heavy Hispanic (38%) and they vote for her at the same rate the whites do ....can't even make this crap up

[Ontheboundry]

73. Correction

22%. The main city there is 38

Again, she does well with them also

I've been to the flea market there,.and 90% of the Hispanic men got cowboy hats, boots and big belt buckles. They are not a single bit different than the billy bobs

[jfz9580m]

81. I used to live in TN

I am non white and well to the left. One reason I am sometimes uncomfortable with the broad brushes is that I have generally had positive interactions with working class white people (male and female) in TN and elsewhere. Similarly I have generally had positive interactions in with nonwhite working class people (male and female) and really most people. I would consider a reality mediated by algorithms and TikTok clickbait interactions with humans a nightmare.

Our anecdotal experiences shape our lives more than stats. That is true. Then I look at the way politics works and I am baffled as to how this is happening. This is why EarlG’s post resonated with me.

I remember this older, working class white guy I used to and still consider a cool person. He said something (we had never discussed politics at all) like “This Obamacare administration sucks”. I also knew another white guy who was a neighbor who was friendly and had political views I disagreed with. But they were none of them either creepy or racist at an interpersonal level.

My own take in my mid forties now is that people can be nice in person and have political views that surprise one. It is true with people white or nonwhite (and to a much lesser extent male or female..there I do see a distinction. That is why Greene and Boebert and hardcore maga women surprise me. Most conservative women irl vote in ways I don’t get, but they are nice enough people and not very combative.).

I am always afraid to know someone’s politics.

The human brain and politics ..it is such a confusing thing. Sadly these people Trump Greene etc really know how to use the internet to weaponise that and sow division.

Most of us (even relatively educated people) are relatively low info wrt the very complex reality shaped by economics, technology, race, gender, class, education that we all inhabit.

I have never agreed with Jonathan Haidt about how everyone is awesome but somehow reality sucks. It is so reductive and basically a way to let billionaires, the gop, billionaire owned mainstream or social media (the things and the few people I do blame) off the hook. Not all opinions are equal. And he seems to focus on culture wars ignoring economics.

But I do from a progressive standpoint like to believe that most people could be better in a less fucked up society.

[Ontheboundry]

82. I can get on board with this

I'm definitely more moderate than most here, and that is probably due to my birthplace/location, but also am well-traveled and have a degree from a pretty good school

If I ever vote Republican it's because it's a local race where I know who one, or both of them are

And a guy who is a shitstain of a human being with a D next to his name, is still a shitstain of a human being

My barber used to be my state rep. Him and I served together and he is someone I owe more than I can ever pay back and is about as good as a human being as you can ever know

He's a Republican but I know him in great depth, and even if I don't agree with him.all the time, I know that what's he doing is something he is sure is the ' right' thing to do. There is no malicious intent In his actions

[jfz9580m]

84. I think it is important that we talk to each other across all divides

Not performatively but for real.

It is the one thing that can-sorry to be corny-but “save the world” on some timeframe.

Now that this election is over I can say that I was dismayed to see Mark Cuban out there calling himself a Harris surrogate. I don’t think there are simplistic answers out there for any damn thing.

But Mark Cuban? If dems want a long term solution to fascist GOP/lunatics like Greene and RFK jr and billionaire run worlds, they do need to imo (god I hate being flamed) reach out and tap into the Bernie movement, moderate Republicans and find a coalition bridging Bernie-establishment dems and moderate Republicans but getting rid of the billionaires.

No one likes billionaires. From the time I started seeing Mark Cuban and Reed Hoffman dissing Lina Khan I worried.

Thanks for the conversation ontheboundry. I am well to the left but I sometimes feel that our media environments make conversation with people who are not basically us so hard.

Now I admit to not being impressed by Liz Cheney and Bill Kristol. Adam Kinzinger seems okay otoh. I am 46 and not convinced by anyone with the last name Cheney and I don’t buy Bill Kristol. You need a human memory. Not just what is being talked about. I remember the Cheneys and Bill Kristol and yeah no.

I wish dems could reach the harmless Joe Rogan voter and over time convince them that Musk and Trump don’t give a shit about them.

[Ontheboundry]

86. Joe rogan

Why did she not go there? She only hurt herself with that

14 million people is a lot every day. More than she would have reached at a rally

[jfz9580m]

88. Politics is all about groups

I am certainly someone who would never consider alternatives to the dem party because save for the rare little known republican here and there the party as a whole is on board with a fascistic capitalist agenda imo (which would appeal to people regardless of race and gender where they really like that stuff).
But certainly I would consider getting a large number of the harmless Rogan bros worth losing: Kristol/Cheney/Cuban/Reed Hoffman etc.
A larger number of basically harmless people versus a few rich plutocrats who know how to insincerely say all the right things.

Of course all that said, I really hope Kristol/Cheney etc are okay. I would hate to see Trump punish them. He is vindictive and crazy. While I would rather Kristol and Cheney go and start a moderate third party of “we fucked up long ago and hey at least we realize it now” over dilute the dem party and turn it into an non trump version of the Bush Republicans, i do think it would be scary if Trump went full vindictive Nazi on them.

The world is so confusing right now. But I do deplore a media culture that only remembers the last 15 mins. I mean Kristol and the Cheneys did back the Iraq war and Mark Cuban and Reed Hoffman are billionaires who dislike everything about the Democratic Party that I think makes it a hopeful alternative to the Republican Party.

[Ontheboundry]

89. I think we missed the boat in 2016.

With Bernie. I think he was out way to suck off a lot of Republicans and he got done dirty a little bit by the Dems

I voted for Bernie in the primary and was turned off once he got punted, but being in Tennessee I could afford to abstain

[jfz9580m]

90. Well I was tuned out in 2016

Due to many personal issues. Had I paid attention I know now that I would have been very enthusiastic about Bernie and well tbh lukewarm to Hillary but still seen her as wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy better any day than Trump. I don’t think you can do worse than Trump.

I am not a Dem fanbot. But I do dislike and fear and distrust 90-95% of the movement GOP and their affiliates/allies etc. Which I think is sadly an unbridgeable gap with the types of voters I mentioned at the start. People where interpersonal anger would not happen but we are worlds apart politically. Conflict and confrontation are relatively rare irl but they seem all that is real in the world of politics and media.

But yeah re real world people I know with different views-that is where it would be “I don’t hate you and you don’t hate me but somehow we don’t vote for the same people”.

I am a Bernie booster but I wouldn’t have participated in the flame wars here because I generally like DUers whatever I think of their political choices. I like the Bernie voters. I like the Clinton voters. What I especially like about them in 2024 is that they are all real people and not bots.


They are real people with strong views which is most people. That is different from a world of grifters who play the game or people manipulated by algorithms on social media.

I am here because I trust Skinner/EarlG and Elad and I know the people who have been posting here though mostly they would not know me.

[yardwork]

7. This is the problem and I don't know the solution.

[Quixote1818]

12. As I said above. We should play that game to a point. That is where politics are right now.

If it works then we need to play a bit more dirty. Think about why Sanders was doing so well. He sounds like he is going to take a wrecking ball to everything. Of course we know everything ends up being a slow grind and the BS Trump says doesn't really help them but he gets away with it and people believe him.

But once we have power we also need to try to help these people and take a wrecking ball if possible. They do deserve representation.

[RJ_MacReady]

48. Good point

People tend to think Democrats come off as safe a rehearsed. I heard it from people I know in real life about Harris, they liked her but felt she was too guarded and scripted.

[RockRaven]

9. Every time they complain about something over the next 5 years which is

a result of a policy TCF or Project 2025 laid out prior to the election, be sure to helpfully point out that this was what they voted for so there is no cause for distress.

[proud patriot]

61. that's my plan

[Zorro]

10. A "low information voter"

is an ignoramus in this day and age with so much media available at their fingertips.

They are akin to the "good Germans" who ignored or turned a blind eye to Hitler and the Nazi atrocities.

[orange jar]

16. There's a problem with this, though.

"So much media" consists of AI slop, clickbait, mis/disinformation, personal blog spam, and incessant self-promotion from people who have delusions of grandeur.

We shouldn't encourage ignorance. But demonizing people for being low-info voters when so much "info" out there is straight up nonsense or BS doesn't really solve the issue.

[Zorro]

20. Then they're just stupid if they can't discriminate between rhetoric and reality

I'm all over giving these fools the benefit of the doubt. They are siding with fascism and killing American democracy.

[onenote]

67. Calling voters stupid isn't at the top of my list of things we should do to attract them to our side.

[Zorro]

93. I call 'em as I see 'em

[TheKentuckian]

70. A constant stream of excuses and handwaiving doesn't solve a damn thing either

it just clears enough cognitive dissonance to enjoy beer call or a holiday dinner with reckless, hateful, myopic assholes that will sell their fellow person out for a bowl of fucking thin gruel or just for shits and giggles.

[Conjuay]

11. Funny, I don't have any life long friends that voted for trump.

Voting for trump automatically makes them "former associates", if that.

[Quixote1818]

17. Believe me, it has been difficult. I grew up with him. He was there when my brother was killed.

He's been there for me. We just don't talk politics. His brother was a big time conservative who now hates Trump. Most of their family was and turned against Trump. This guy is just a really simple type person. He's got a good heart and just doesn't pay much attention to any of it.

[lame54]

13. I'll give him one thing. It won't be slow...

The destruction is going to be swift

[Bettie]

15. I have ended friendships over

trump. It just isn't worth being around people whose values and morals aren't even close to mine.

I am too old to have people in my life who actively hate others and if you are willing to vote for Trump, you hate something more than you love anything.

[crimycarny]

18. My brother from Texas (PhD) told me "Biden said all Republicans are trash"

My brother is very educated, but shockingly low information. He once said he "just didn't like Biden" but couldn't give me a reason, couldn't name any of his policies. After the "garbage" comment he told me "Biden said all Republicans are garbage!!. I saw the video!!!"

I asked if he'd seen the comedian from the MSG (answer: no), then told him that Biden was referencing the rhetoric of this comedian and told my brother some of the comments that were made. He was like "Oh"

But EVEN IF Biden had said that and meant that, is that something to base your vote on? If so, why the H*LL vote for Trump who has said worse things every.single.rally.

It just doesn't make any sense to me at all how people can be so oblivious.

[jfz9580m]

59. This captures it. People are shockingly low info.nt

[Prairie Gates]

19. They will never see a dollar of Social Security

Not a single dime. Nobody under 55 today will see a single dime of social security, even if you paid into the system you're entire life.

[JI7]

21. We need to let them experience this

they voted for it. He got more votes. Give them what they want.

[tgraf66]

22. If it were me...

...they wouldn't be friends any longer.

[AverageOldGuy]

23. I have friends and family just like yours . . .

And I have told my wife, when the Trump tsunami hits and one -- even one of them -- complains, I will rip them a new asshole -- remind them that they voted for him, show them how he is responsible for their problems, and tell them their troubles are their own damn fault, now getthefuck out of my sight.

[paleotn]

28. We are of the same mind.

[Dem2theMax]

45. Amen!

And I don't believe in religion.

[mymomwasright]

24. Until shit really hits people hard, they won't pay attention.

Not like the bacon or gas prices. More like, Grandma's social security stopped or they came and took my neighbors away.

[quakerboy]

33. And when it does hit them

They will reliably blame the wrong people.

[TheKentuckian]

75. Mainly not themselves for sure and probably not the perps either

The excuse making and spinning is beyond nauseating.

The worries about a "broadbrush" is high brow frontier gibberish for those reckless assholes are my "tribe" and I wub them evah so much so don't speak ill of my fuckwit that wishes great harm to our nation.

[DeeDeeNY]

25. I don't get how anyone could expect he would suddenly be able to get anything done

When he was already president for 4 years.

[paleotn]

27. Either they're dumb as stumps or hate the same people he does...

or some mixture of the 2.

[BeneteauBum]

30. It's all about power

Trump will use his position to consolidate and I improve his power base. His constituents will enrich themselves at the expense of the rest of us. Trump himself will wring everything he can out of America and leave it in shambles after his term is over. He cares only for himself
Peace ☮️

[Quixote1818]

31. I think that is where it may have actually worked in his favor that we were pointing out he would not be constrained

by the type of people in his cabinet before.

[quakerboy]

36. He was President

But this time he's promised to be dictator. And he has a senate majority and a strong supreme court willing to burn down anything in his way.

[paleotn]

26. Morons. Fuck them.

They're no different than the jackasses who voted for the National Socialist German Workers Party (nazis) because they thought Hitler would make the trains run on time. Reap the whirlwind, mother fuckers.

If you can't vote intelligently, you shouldn't be allowed to vote. Otherwise, we end up with shit like this.

[NameAlreadyTaken]

29. But they ARE bad people.

The fact that they voted for Trump automatically makes them bad people.

[oldsoftie]

32. I've said it many times; lumping them all into one category is a big mistake.

Yet thats the knee jerk reaction here every day.
They ALL have to be racists, misogynists, etc. Sure a lot of them ARE. But not all

[onecaliberal]

38. He is a serial rapist. Even if he were an economic wizard.

[cadoman]

74. burden of proof is on you

Name a single MAGAT that is not a racist and misogynist.

[TheKentuckian]

78. The ones they care for of course...they are merely confused or something...they are great

When the shit hits the fan the excuse makers will side with their tribe in the end and to hell with everyone else.

[oldsoftie]

92. This is why we lose elections. NOT wanting to examine real issues.

Just blanket-blaming.

[oldsoftie]

91. The people I know are the only examples I know. Its not that hard.

I live in a sold red area; I know TONS of them. I know the difference.

[William Seger]

34. He did virtually nothing for them his first 4 years

... but he tells them that he did wonderful things, and they believe him.

I have zero respect for anyone who voted Trump, no excuses.

[colorado_ufo]

35. Some things never change. The Roman poet Juvenal nailed it.

To win the public, just give them "bread and circuses."

[onecaliberal]

37. He is known and his chaos is known around the globe.

That dog doesn’t hunt.

[calimary]

39. I would guess the prevailing feeling with these folks is "meh, that's never gonna happen to me."

I can’t help but think these people assume it won’t happen to them, and wouldn’t happen to them, so why should they care?

[Irish_Dem]

40. They are irresponsible, lazy and selfish.

They refuse to do their civic duty required to live in a democracy.
To read the basics about the people they elect.

And to know they are voting for a life long criminal and psychopath.

They have put themselves, their children and the country in grave danger.

These are not good people.

[jaxexpat]

41. Republicans blocked anything and everything Democrats tried to enact, even their own bills.

How the hell is changing their style going to change that or stop project 2025? The Republican party is the fucking problem. All they understand is wrecking ball politics. Until they're gone it will all be shit except for the top 0.1%.

[jfz9580m]

43. I agree with your take

I am as disappointed as anyone else by this election. But I am afraid I disagree with the “shove it up their asses. They asked for it” stuff.

I don’t find it constructive and it is not analytical enough. It is very hard to see ignorance sometimes and not feel frustrated.

But the important thing is that cluelessness is not hate and it needs to be corrected before it turns into hate. And to do that we have to dial down the hate from our side.

I am not calling for enthusiastic embrace of nonsense. That is not possible.
The question is what is the point? Do we just want to say “fascism is inevitable. I am all going all civil war on your ass you fuckers”. I get the frustration but it may not be the most constructive path.

It is a long and hard road to peace, democracy and progress but

I honestly don’t think that people go more left when they do worse and worse.

And if you want a representative democracy, you have to get people back to sanity and reality to the extent you can and then things will get better.

It is understandable where DUers are doing badly themselves. That is not a situation in which anyone feels good. Where you are directly affected especially.

But when it is possible we have to not hate. I am a bit dismayed to see all the posts about “let them die and suffer”. I am not being sanctimonious at all. I understand the frustration and anger as a person who has often dealt with both.


But that is a cancer on one’s own soul-fear and anger net help men like Trump.

As hard as it is one has to rise above that.

I have decided to take the approach that you have to think of things on long time scales. Maybe frustratingly long but it is the only solution.


This is not preaching to DUers who are angry or upset right now. I have been in your shoes. I never think anyone can be hectored into calmness whether it is Maga or angry lefties.


But once you can get to the acceptance part, it is important for your own sake and for the future to try to fix ignorance or misinfo with patience because an eye for an eye leaves the whole world blind.

Sorry if you read this and are very angry. I am not being pompous or preachy. It is just that I don’t see a way to getting back to sanity on a war like footing.

We need our wits about us right now.

[Zorro]

57. Sorry

They're convinced that the Republican shit sandwich offered to them tastes great, and demand that we agree with them or else...

We've been told to be patient and understanding of these ignorant louts for too long a time now. Our patience and understanding has only encouraged their loutish, ignorant, and selfish behavior.

By electing TFA they have dragged us -- along with the entire country -- into the gutter.

It is now time for them to suffer the consequences of their actions. It is what they voted for and may be the only way they'll wake the fuck up, because we can't change their minds by reason or logic.

They will either see the light or double down on their beliefs and attitudes.

[jfz9580m]

58. Well that is going to happen

Whether one voted for Trump or not :-/.
I just wonder what the solution is if people like those described in the OP cannot become more informed and less clueless.

I just don’t know if suffering will make them less radical. Usually people seem to move right when things get worse. That seems to be the long term effect Covid had anyway.

Wouldn’t that just reinforce Trump?

[Dem2theMax]

44. His voters listen to what he says and take him at his 'word.'

They pay absolutely no attention to the fact that he never does what he says he is going to do. And then of course, when things turn out badly, he blames it on the Democrats. Rinse and repeat. It's all he does.

Part of me wishes that everything they say they're going to do, they actually do this time. I really want to see Hellfire rain down on the people who voted for him. But I don't want the rest of us to be punished for it. I am so angry right now. I can't even leave my house. If anybody looked at me cross-eyed,

[ecstatic]

52. that's what frustrates me the most! They literally cite trump's own talking points as if they are fact.

I've never seen such an effective brainwashing operation. It's insane!

[Dem4life1234]

46. The dumbest people support him

Maybe we need them to suffer like shit and see the light.

[TheKentuckian]

80. They won't and their friends and family will still make excuses for them.

I just want the monstrous fuckwits to stop breathing my air by whatever means at this point.

[DemonGoddess]

47. Well

They will find out how this affects them in their pockets in fairly short order. The extra tax credit provided for application to your monthly premium, that allowed so many to pay less for health care, expires next year. It's going to affect everyone.

[ecstatic]

50. Democrats are turned off by clowns

so I'm not sure what the solution is.

Can you give an example of a Democrat who is also a performer with a lot of antics AND who could win the nomination? No offense to anyone, but the only example I can think of is Bernie.

[Iris]

51. Well said

[yaesu]

53. They wouldn't be my friends for long, I can't stand to be around stupid people. nt

[A Clearing]

54. Sounds like they're going to get the government they deserve. nt

[pansypoo53219]

55. stupid won.

[Freethinker65]

56. Do something for them?

Like make healthcare more affordable? Like supporting rural hospitals? Like pass an infrastructure bill to help their communities? Like fund public education and higher education and expand that to include trade schools and certification programs? Like not propose tariffs that hurt US farmers and businesses? Like propose job training and seed money for depressed areas/communities?

Or perhaps give those voters some new group to hate and fear every election year to get votes, then forget all about those same voters?

[kerouac2]

60. Dems like Biden are the only ones who

Actually have done things for these people. Everything from health care, to worker rights, to education for their kids, to financial help, to eliminating student loan debt and funding police, infrastructure, schools, and so much more. Apparently it's not about what is done for them, it is them realizing who actually works to make their lives better. It sure ain't trump or the gop, ever.

Our messaging clearly needs work but folks have to care enough to learn.

[andym]

62. Excitement and hope of big change tends to win over stay-the-course except during economic booms

unless the economy is doing really well. Reagan and Clinton both won second terms during economic booms.
Gore won the popular vote, and would have likely won the election in 2000 had Florida recounted one more time, the economy was good, but Year 2k fears did create enough economic anxiety to allow a weak change candidate like Bush to do well enough to win.

Obama was a change candidate versus McCain, though neither was an incumbent on the eve of the Great Recession.

Obama was more of a change candidate than Romney, even though he was already President.

Trump touted himself as the change candidate in 2016 as you described-- he lost the popular vote similarly to Romney and only won the election because rust belt citizens in PA, MI, and WI were not doing as well as previously after loss of manufacturing jobs in the years after the Great Recession.

Biden beat Trump because Biden was the change candidate from the chaos and incompetence of Trump during the uncertainty of Covid.

Kamala ran mostly against Trump's chaos and as a continuation of Biden, but Biden's favorability was at 40% due to higher cost-of-living from the after effects of Covid. Voters were very apprehensive about the economy and Trump's volatility made him more of a change candidate than Kamala who proposed what were evolutionary changes to Joe's policies rather than Trump's extreme ideas of tariffs and deportations.

[onenote]

68. +1

[MiHale]

79. Yep surrounded by them...

Tell myself every day…Can’t fix Stupid! It’s easier to be told what to do than think for yourself. I’ve actually heard that said in defense of their choice.

[Alice B.]

85. I have been asking myself, since before the election

What I would think if my only knowledge of current events came from catching the local evening news and maybe glancing at the headlines.

I realized I had been assuming his voters are all consuming information, albeit through their own lens, at the rate we are.

[republianmushroom]

94. Those friends will pay attention after the next four years.