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I've learned an important lesson from this election (Original Post) Bettie Yesterday OP
Most humans are garbage XanaDUer2 Yesterday #1
They are catholic and vote conservative Blue Full Moon Yesterday #15
I'm catholic XanaDUer2 Yesterday #23
There is a rift in the church Blue Full Moon Yesterday #39
Yeah I don't know any rw catholics XanaDUer2 Yesterday #40
The parrish my sister belongs to Lifeafter70 14 hrs ago #153
It's not simply about being Catholic... King_Klonopin 11 hrs ago #157
You described my dad until he retired Lifeafter70 11 hrs ago #158
I don't consider people like Alito Catholic. LisaM Yesterday #63
Hug XanaDUer2 Yesterday #66
I call them churchers no matter what denomination Blue Full Moon Yesterday #70
My sister is over sixty and converted to Catholicism about ten years ago. Hope22 Yesterday #98
I'm sorry XanaDUer2 Yesterday #100
Confession: I'm already toying with the idea of flying the flag upside down, starting now. calimary 17 hrs ago #144
My biggest problem with my situation was... Hope22 15 hrs ago #151
I will never understand. Catholic teaching of Jesus is largely liberal Norbert 5 hrs ago #163
Yes to all of this. Hope22 5 hrs ago #164
I attended Catholic high school and college but Clearheadsam 22 hrs ago #126
the two concepts don't gel in my head. I know too much about being a Catholic msfiddlestix 20 hrs ago #137
Ok XanaDUer2 20 hrs ago #138
Okay atreides1 Yesterday #47
God works through unlikely vessels 🤮 Blue Full Moon Yesterday #61
Joe Biden is Catholic SocialDemocrat61 Yesterday #68
Yep and liberal Blue Full Moon Yesterday #73
So? SocialDemocrat61 Yesterday #75
Who do you think the Heritage Foundation is? Blue Full Moon Yesterday #76
The Heritage Foundation is SocialDemocrat61 Yesterday #101
To me the heratige foundation I_UndergroundPanther 15 hrs ago #148
I don't disagree SocialDemocrat61 7 hrs ago #160
It is Bettie 6 hrs ago #162
Didn't say that. Blue Full Moon Yesterday #81
Then what is your point SocialDemocrat61 Yesterday #106
TY XanaDUer2 Yesterday #109
Because the catholic church has been Blue Full Moon Yesterday #110
Oh so it's a secret conspiracy SocialDemocrat61 Yesterday #112
Not to secret Blue Full Moon Yesterday #113
So are all Catholics part of this conspiracy? SocialDemocrat61 23 hrs ago #114
Actually, various fundamental xian sects have made BIG strides among Hispanic populations for a couple decades now. Attilatheblond Yesterday #92
Didn't say it was only them Blue Full Moon Yesterday #99
I didn't infer you said it was only them Attilatheblond 21 hrs ago #131
Yep. The radtrad Catholic groups have "Google-bombed" the internet... keep_left 22 hrs ago #127
Garbage kairos12 Yesterday #20
A time-honoured saying from British politics: anamnua Yesterday #21
I like that. Blue Full Moon Yesterday #62
those papers will NOT protect them lapfog_1 Yesterday #30
It will be interesting to see his supposed deportations XanaDUer2 Yesterday #34
to do it the right way is NJCher Yesterday #43
Unless they speak perfect, unaccented English Demobrat 21 hrs ago #130
Didn't work for Hitler ended up being concentration camps. Blue Full Moon Yesterday #44
I suspect they will be sold into slavery. They have a huge pool of people to sell. Clouds Passing Yesterday #52
Their lives will be a misery. BonnieJW Yesterday #55
Camps? 90-percent Yesterday #108
That is why I_UndergroundPanther 15 hrs ago #149
What about the White men who consistently vote Republican? Yavin4 Yesterday #33
And many white women XanaDUer2 Yesterday #35
A majority of white women Sable302b Yesterday #84
But, please, use caution. BadgerMom Yesterday #85
Please, I don't want to argue XanaDUer2 Yesterday #86
White men are NOT the largest voting block in America. White women are. Latino's are going kelly1mm 13 hrs ago #155
Right there with you. onecaliberal Yesterday #54
Don't let some of the headliners fool you Jk23 Yesterday #89
Good luck to them XanaDUer2 Yesterday #90
"I wonder, the Latinos who voted for him..." hadEnuf 22 hrs ago #123
This message was self-deleted by its author hadEnuf 22 hrs ago #124
just saw this: blueknight73 22 hrs ago #125
I think Latinos, especially multi generation Latinos are having the same conversion as other ethnic groups kelly1mm 14 hrs ago #152
I went through most of my life honestly believing that Mr.Bee 14 hrs ago #154
& then my question Lemon Lyman Yesterday #2
Right? I don't know Bettie Yesterday #4
I think people were always this bad. Elessar Zappa Yesterday #10
It's said to be a machismo issue with many Latino males. The man rules the house and is the authority figure. brush Yesterday #7
Yeah, Mexico's gotten A LOT better in the past few decades. Elessar Zappa Yesterday #9
Misogyny or racism, IDK if you can state which one right-wing white men harbor the most. CrispyQ Yesterday #13
Years of brainwashing Blue Full Moon Yesterday #17
I listened to an excellent Ursus Arctos Yesterday #38
I think it was inside them. BonnieJW Yesterday #57
Yeah, I truly believed that good people outnumbered the creeps. Quiet Em Yesterday #3
An awful lot of people are just mean and dumb. Ocelot II Yesterday #5
An economy for all & a solid educational system would cure a ton of our problems!! CrispyQ Yesterday #16
Completely agree with you here jmbar2 Yesterday #27
People have no idea how rich the rich really are. CrispyQ Yesterday #50
The pie exercise is really good way to present the information jmbar2 Yesterday #60
Adding some figures would be good, too, so people would know which plate they're on. CrispyQ Yesterday #67
Nick Hanauer does a good TedTalk on this... jmbar2 Yesterday #69
It is an eye opening visual. I wish they'd do another example of how it was 50 or 100 years ago. ffr 19 hrs ago #140
That would be good jmbar2 19 hrs ago #141
The Pie. Luv this, saw it a few years ago. Very effective, terrific demo. Tx for posting appalachiablue Yesterday #111
We used to have that with FDR's New Deal FakeNoose Yesterday #94
Yes! Almost everyone in the US today has benefited in some way from the New Deal. CrispyQ Yesterday #105
To be honest atreides1 Yesterday #29
Yep, racism and misogyny 'r us. It's a harsh discription but it's evident now. brush Yesterday #6
We cultivate the type of society we want. CrispyQ Yesterday #8
It's been a rude awakening, for sure. City Lights Yesterday #11
But they are all over social media Bettie Yesterday #12
Couldn't agree more! nt City Lights Yesterday #18
It's like finding out that a family member has a secret second family progressoid Yesterday #14
For me, it feels like finding out a family member Bettie Yesterday #19
people in the USA voteragain Yesterday #22
It's sad so much hate and bigotry exists in our country kimbutgar Yesterday #24
Persons are decent--as a group, people are not always Maeve Yesterday #25
Ya... I was really hit with that 2016, so I do get what you are saying. LizBeth Yesterday #26
I agree. It is a seismic shock. anamnua Yesterday #28
yeah...i have a few ppl who are no longer friends cuz of that premise FirstLight Yesterday #31
One thing I learned on the front lines of Covid Docreed2003 Yesterday #32
My mom had a similar saying Lifeafter70 1 hr ago #165
People no longer want decency. They want money, or they want to watch other people lose and suffer. Wingus Dingus Yesterday #36
You know, i know people who watch Bettie Yesterday #42
There's so little that's uplifting anymore, you have to really seek it out--I don't watch that trash either. Wingus Dingus Yesterday #46
So in other words, the fruit of the Reagan tree misanthrope 23 hrs ago #115
Reagan made greed and ignorance fashionable Skittles 10 hrs ago #159
The lesson I've learned is that too many generally decent people are also dumb as dirt. Pacifist Patriot Yesterday #37
The internet broke our culture Johnny2X2X Yesterday #41
Spot on and a book to read jayschool2013 Yesterday #91
It needed to be heavily regulated from the start Johnny2X2X Yesterday #103
Well, we have got to figure something out. Elessar Zappa 23 hrs ago #121
Will take something big happening Johnny2X2X 23 hrs ago #122
The media was better off before 1990. Dawson Leery Yesterday #97
Reality can be very unpleasant sometimes Trust_Reality Yesterday #45
Perhaps a better guideline is "There's a sucker born every minute." Martin68 Yesterday #48
I have become a misanthrope BigmanPigman Yesterday #49
True. There are several politicians who have greatly disappointed me too * Oopsie Daisy Yesterday #51
Look at our history stollen Yesterday #53
Went to my SILs funeral a couple of months ago ismnotwasm Yesterday #56
Good illustration of why we shouldn't be too hard on the other side jmbar2 Yesterday #65
They are NOT reachable ismnotwasm Yesterday #82
JFK Jr has been dead for 25 years. misanthrope 23 hrs ago #116
The cost of. . . Stargleamer 13 hrs ago #156
I learned the truth of the saying Colgate 64 Yesterday #58
Exactly my feelings!!!! nt LAS14 Yesterday #59
You are not alone. ananda Yesterday #64
Welcome to Club 2016. Iggo Yesterday #71
Pretty sad realization Old Crank Yesterday #72
Evidence would support that position** misanthrope 23 hrs ago #117
Thank you for expressing exactly how I've felt since waking up yesterday morning geo1 Yesterday #74
I am not proud of this country BluenFLA Yesterday #77
Agreed - it's going to be an awful 4 years and we have few allies left FakeNoose Yesterday #78
Assuming it is only four years is optimistic misanthrope 23 hrs ago #118
Religion should have no place in American politics. Instead it is a basic requirement to get elected walkingman Yesterday #79
I love this country and the idea of what it could be. mymomwasright Yesterday #80
Fear and ignorance rules the day. BarbD Yesterday #83
Very. It is a harsh lesson. Learning it almost destroyed me, to be honest. (n/t) OldBaldy1701E Yesterday #87
There were millions of Americans is the mid-19th century that seemed paulrevere2018 Yesterday #88
Corruption gone wild. moondust Yesterday #93
I never regretted not serving in the military. Dawson Leery Yesterday #95
America is certainly embracing hate at the moment 4catsmom Yesterday #96
Can't be that many votes LESS than 2020 for the Democratic candidate Eliot Rosewater Yesterday #102
The 2020 candidate was a man. Demobrat 21 hrs ago #132
Human nature Semperviren Yesterday #104
FIFY misanthrope 23 hrs ago #119
I believed that until the 2016 election. raccoon Yesterday #107
In 2016, I mistakenly put it down to Bettie 23 hrs ago #120
Only 29% of US adults voted for Trump. MisterG 22 hrs ago #128
Better late than never. Demobrat 22 hrs ago #129
There are more assholes in the world brettdale 21 hrs ago #133
I've always preferred my pets DemonGoddess 21 hrs ago #134
Message auto-removed Name removed 21 hrs ago #135
Yup. People need a re-boot. Joinfortmill 20 hrs ago #136
What I have come to understand about the republican base is that it all runs on doublethink. paulkienitz 20 hrs ago #139
Totally Agree Starlight27 19 hrs ago #142
"It is a hard thing to finally understand." B.See 18 hrs ago #143
Throughout my long adult life I've met thousands of people moniss 17 hrs ago #145
Important lesson mamacita75 16 hrs ago #146
What i see in what has happened reinforces my foundational understanding of humanity and life... Trueblue Texan 16 hrs ago #147
I think I_UndergroundPanther 15 hrs ago #150
Like 2016, if pettiness was radiation... Montauk6 6 hrs ago #161

XanaDUer2

(13,625 posts)
1. Most humans are garbage
Thu Nov 7, 2024, 09:39 AM
Yesterday

Just where I'm at at age 59.

I wonder, the Latinos who voted for him... will they have to carry papers now to prove their citizens? Its gonna be interesting

Blue Full Moon

(959 posts)
39. There is a rift in the church
Thu Nov 7, 2024, 11:39 AM
Yesterday

My Father in law was a liberal and catholic. I said that some aren't conservative. I find it hard to place Thomas Merton and Teilhard De Chardin with the likes of Carlo Maria Vigano.

XanaDUer2

(13,625 posts)
40. Yeah I don't know any rw catholics
Thu Nov 7, 2024, 11:42 AM
Yesterday

Lots of awful ppl of all stripes.

Rapist. Check. Spy. Check. Epstein bud. Check. Mass murderer. Check. Incompetent. Check. Microphone blower. Check. Felon. Check. Sociopath. Check.

Lifeafter70

(355 posts)
153. The parrish my sister belongs to
Thu Nov 7, 2024, 11:49 PM
14 hrs ago

Is nothing but rw catholics and trump supporters. She lives in blue oregon but a very conservative part of the state. Years ago when I was still involved it was more liberal. I have not spoken to her since my dad's funeral, two years ago. My dad also supported trump.

King_Klonopin

(1,337 posts)
157. It's not simply about being Catholic...
Fri Nov 8, 2024, 02:47 AM
11 hrs ago

It is more a reflection of where a person lives geographically.
Catholics are divided 50/50 politically. Abortion is the big wedge issue.

I am fortunate enough to be a Catholic who lives in Massachusetts:
An Irish Catholic, labor union, working class, publicly educated, dyed-in-the-wool Democrat.

Lifeafter70

(355 posts)
158. You described my dad until he retired
Fri Nov 8, 2024, 03:35 AM
11 hrs ago

I was rasied in a large (six kids) Irish Catholic family. My father was a union man working class. He worked on many of the major bridges in California, we grew up in Southern California. Our parrish was very liberal. So I understand what you are talking about.
All that changed when he retired. I had never heard racist words from him growing up, but as an adult I heard a lot. He especially had a hate for Hispanics. He thought they had ruined the construction unions. When he retired he no longer had to watch what he said or hide his true feelings. He voted for trump twice before he passed.
My family is split down the middle. Three siblings who are still practicing Catholics, very conservative and trump supporters. I my sister and younger brother are liberal and left the church at different stages in our lives and for different reasons.
I realize religion or lack of belief are very personal and there are many good Catholics. Unfortunately too many Cardinals and Bishops are not.
I do love the nuns on the bus.
I was a believer well into adulthood and it was not a decision I made lightly.

LisaM

(28,522 posts)
63. I don't consider people like Alito Catholic.
Thu Nov 7, 2024, 12:21 PM
Yesterday

He can call himself that all he wants, but he doesn't practice the basic tenet of the faith, which is helping those less fortunate - the least among us.

And yes, I am a liberal Catholic. The churches I grew up with were very progressive.

Hope22

(2,609 posts)
98. My sister is over sixty and converted to Catholicism about ten years ago.
Thu Nov 7, 2024, 01:40 PM
Yesterday

Trumper all the way. I Showed up at her house for thanksgiving four Years ago and she was flying the US flag upside down for TSF. Over my lifetime she has called me horrible things because I stand up for those who need help and march for peace and safe missions for troops. She is a despicable trumper. The point is I never would have inverted the flag especially when my mother and grandmother would see it. Only republicans can do these things and get away with it. I’m so over all of it. If the church tells her to do something she will!

calimary

(84,119 posts)
144. Confession: I'm already toying with the idea of flying the flag upside down, starting now.
Thu Nov 7, 2024, 08:45 PM
17 hrs ago

But I like flying under the radar so much more. Seems to me it’s safer, too - perhaps more than ever, starting now. Or certainly by January 20th.

I realize it’s still only two days on from TERRIBLE TUESDAY. But it seems to me we Dems need at least a bit of recovery or cool-down time. At least a bit. But SOON ENOUGH, for the sake of this country we still love, we’re gonna have to pronounce ourselves solidly recovered and ready to win, longterm.

Hope22

(2,609 posts)
151. My biggest problem with my situation was...
Thu Nov 7, 2024, 11:30 PM
15 hrs ago

That my sister admonished me over a lifetime of peace vigils and activism, voting for democrats, and speaking out. Had I ever once flipped the flag upside down she would have told me I was a disgrace to my grandparents, father and country. And there she was with an upside down flag that was hanging in disarray. For me if I take a flag down I fold it properly. If it is ripped I repair or burn it. I believe in dressing in orange to show distress. Displaying the flag upside down hanging clean and clear may indeed be necessary at times but doing that for an insurrectionist attempting to hijack this country, I draw the line at that!

On our current situation I have not flown the US flag for several years because I have felt that the MAGATS had hijacked it. This fall when I put my campaign signs at the road I interspersed 12”x18” flags amongst them. Back at the house I flew the flag that had draped my grandfather’s coffin from the upper deck. It is huge and it really made me happy to display. Screw these people! We have to take back our flag and the integrity of this nation. If I saw an upside down flag flown clean and hanging free I would understand the meaning. If I knew it was for the traitor in chief I would feel differently, if that makes sense. But like you say, flying under the radar at this time makes total sense. We have had election signs lit on fire and shot at on separate occasions. Safety is a real concern. Stay safe!💗💗

Norbert

(6,476 posts)
163. I will never understand. Catholic teaching of Jesus is largely liberal
Fri Nov 8, 2024, 09:22 AM
5 hrs ago

Classic example from that socialist Matthew:

"Then they will answer and say, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or ill or in prison, and not minister to your needs?’
He will answer them, ‘Amen, I say to you, what you did not do for one of these least ones, you did not do for me.’"


People will go to mass every weekend and hear the Gospels like this, then the wisdom of words like this leave them as soon as they walk out the door and they worship the gospel according to MAGA. I know many of these. It makes you wonder.

Our Archbishop Schnurr has just recently cut ties with the Girl Scouts for whatever reason. I guess the GS is woo woke.

Hope22

(2,609 posts)
164. Yes to all of this.
Fri Nov 8, 2024, 09:31 AM
5 hrs ago

The only take away from all of my Sunday school and catechism was that Jesus, real or imagined had some very solid ideas. Those lessons have stuck with me. If most Americans ever ran into Jesus they would more than likely treat him with disdain. Regarding the archbishop…... They never stop looking for ways to harm the helpless.

Clearheadsam

(286 posts)
126. I attended Catholic high school and college but
Thu Nov 7, 2024, 04:11 PM
22 hrs ago

do not practice anymore. My sister( 74 years old) who attends church every Sunday says they push the anti abortion thing just about every week at mass. Joe won Catholics by 5 % but we lost this time by 8% 🤷🏼‍♂️

atreides1

(16,344 posts)
47. Okay
Thu Nov 7, 2024, 11:53 AM
Yesterday

Catholic and conservative...but they voted for a man who has a history of lying, adultery, failure as a businessman, and has shown no Christian traits at all?

Blue Full Moon

(959 posts)
73. Yep and liberal
Thu Nov 7, 2024, 12:31 PM
Yesterday

South America has had several RW despots that the conservative catholic church has helped to put into power.

Bettie

(16,912 posts)
162. It is
Fri Nov 8, 2024, 08:27 AM
6 hrs ago

and now they will be running our country.

I hope you are doing relatively OK. This must be even more terrifying for you than it is for a lot of us.

Blue Full Moon

(959 posts)
81. Didn't say that.
Thu Nov 7, 2024, 12:45 PM
Yesterday

But the church in South America has been actively supporting RW. I believe this kind of came to light when Francis became pope. If I remember right there was a group that didn't want him because he was not part of the "conservative". I don't remember the particulars but they had a group kill nuns there because they were considered liberal. This "conservative" group seems to hold most of the power.
There is most definitely a rift in the church.

SocialDemocrat61

(2,739 posts)
106. Then what is your point
Thu Nov 7, 2024, 02:03 PM
Yesterday

of singling out Catholics? JFK was Catholic. Biden is Catholic. So is John Kerry, Nancy Pelosi, Kathy Hochul, Bob Casey, Dick Durbin, Kirsten Gillibrand, Mark Kelly, Patty Murray and Sonia Sotomayo as well as many other democrats.

Blue Full Moon

(959 posts)
110. Because the catholic church has been
Thu Nov 7, 2024, 02:25 PM
Yesterday

Doing these things. Example: David Kerish branch davidian is 7th Day Adventist. But the 7th Day Adventist don't do or believe in what he did.
Again the Spanish and the catholic church have had the largest influence in that continent. Nobody expects the Spanish inquisition.

Blue Full Moon

(959 posts)
113. Not to secret
Thu Nov 7, 2024, 02:35 PM
Yesterday

Since there are books and history. If you want to research a library will have materials. You can google but have to be careful of sources.

SocialDemocrat61

(2,739 posts)
114. So are all Catholics part of this conspiracy?
Thu Nov 7, 2024, 02:38 PM
23 hrs ago

Are all the Catholic migrants coming to the southern border just coming here as part of a Catholic plot to take over the United States?

Attilatheblond

(4,234 posts)
92. Actually, various fundamental xian sects have made BIG strides among Hispanic populations for a couple decades now.
Thu Nov 7, 2024, 01:28 PM
Yesterday

So, we can't lay it all on a Catholic alter.

Blue Full Moon

(959 posts)
99. Didn't say it was only them
Thu Nov 7, 2024, 01:41 PM
Yesterday

But Historically the Spainards and the catholics have had the main influence. If you want to know more there has been several books and articles on this topic.

Attilatheblond

(4,234 posts)
131. I didn't infer you said it was only them
Thu Nov 7, 2024, 04:51 PM
21 hrs ago

And I have cracked a few hundred history books, thank you very much. The church of the Conquistadors is not something I admire or even excuse. But, that was then and this is now, and NOW fundy xian churches have a lot of 'missionaries' in Latin America and the influence spreads among Hispanics here. Just noting the current reality.

As a disclaimer, I hold the Roman Church in low regard & feel they have must to atone for.

keep_left

(2,329 posts)
127. Yep. The radtrad Catholic groups have "Google-bombed" the internet...
Thu Nov 7, 2024, 04:23 PM
22 hrs ago

...to make it look like they are a much larger population than they are. Even worse, the more liberal and radical parishes aren't fighting back. I watched the radtrads destroy a campus ministry back in the late '90s, and I've been paying close attention to their machinations since then. They basically control online Catholicism now, so that if you want to see more progressive views, you have to already know the various blogs and sites already. Otherwise, all you get is crap like EWTN, (Ir)-Relevant Radio, Catholic Answers, etc.

https://democraticunderground.com/100219677391#post40 (see paragraph #2-3)

lapfog_1

(30,058 posts)
30. those papers will NOT protect them
Thu Nov 7, 2024, 11:33 AM
Yesterday

If they are children of illegals... even if they are now 50 years old... Trump will retroactively reject the "born here citizenship" and the SCOTUS will go along with him.

But they sure did "own the libs" and "close the door behind them"

XanaDUer2

(13,625 posts)
34. It will be interesting to see his supposed deportations
Thu Nov 7, 2024, 11:37 AM
Yesterday

On day 1. Will Hispanics have to carry papers now?

I have no idea how he's going to move out millions of humans. The cost? Door-to-door raids looking for them?

Camps to hold them in b4 deportation?

NJCher

(37,681 posts)
43. to do it the right way is
Thu Nov 7, 2024, 11:48 AM
Yesterday

exorbitantly expensive. They showed a segment on it on 60 Minutes last week. No way the Chaos Administration will have the ability to do it the right way. They'll just be amassing people and shipping them out of the country.

I've heard a couple interviews with young Latino men who are "legal," if you want to put it that way, and they want the newcomers shipped out. They don't seem to realize there will be little to distinguish them and even if they have papers, it's doubtful they'll be looked at carefully. Huge risk to them, I'm thinking.

Demobrat

(9,734 posts)
130. Unless they speak perfect, unaccented English
Thu Nov 7, 2024, 04:41 PM
21 hrs ago

they will be targets. If they think the MAGAt thugs will give a shit about papers they are nuts. Brown skin, foreign accent? Out you go.

Blue Full Moon

(959 posts)
44. Didn't work for Hitler ended up being concentration camps.
Thu Nov 7, 2024, 11:48 AM
Yesterday

GOP operatives have been getting republicans scared of concentration camps even though it's total bs. Now though that is probably the route they will take. But enough people have been exposed to the idea that it won't bother them because they said that was what the liberals were going to do to them. I think they have this weird rule they have to tell you what they are going to do. They project what they are actually planning onto the democrats and then it makes it alright for them to do it.

BonnieJW

(2,512 posts)
55. Their lives will be a misery.
Thu Nov 7, 2024, 12:11 PM
Yesterday

Kids can't go to school. No going to the hospital. No reporting criminals who wrong them.

90-percent

(6,876 posts)
108. Camps?
Thu Nov 7, 2024, 02:19 PM
Yesterday

That's easy. Just take auto mfg and commercial and military aircraft plants by eminent domain. It's a good time to invest in indoor chain link fencing


-90% Jimmy


Yavin4

(36,029 posts)
33. What about the White men who consistently vote Republican?
Thu Nov 7, 2024, 11:37 AM
Yesterday

They are the largest voting bloc in America and no Democrat has ever won their majority. Not once. So, let's stop blaming the Latino male vote when it's White men that are the problem.

XanaDUer2

(13,625 posts)
35. And many white women
Thu Nov 7, 2024, 11:39 AM
Yesterday

But of you're a Trump voter, fuck you. His character is more than clear at this point.

I don't care who you are anymore.

BadgerMom

(2,945 posts)
85. But, please, use caution.
Thu Nov 7, 2024, 01:01 PM
Yesterday

I’m a white woman. I’ve never voted Republican and, I know, never will. Some other white women differ from me and reveal themselves. Wait for that.

My husband is a white man and, also, has never voted Republican. We’re unable to recognize the diseased until people tell us who they are.

I know we’re deeply hurt right now. I know I am. Just be careful.

XanaDUer2

(13,625 posts)
86. Please, I don't want to argue
Thu Nov 7, 2024, 01:10 PM
Yesterday

Its too raw right now. I'm cutting trumpers out and i don't gaf WHO they are. I'm hearing on tv that white women went for trump bc of "fears' of student protests.

That has nothing to do with me being a white women who vote democratic. I'm not discussing it further with you.

kelly1mm

(5,098 posts)
155. White men are NOT the largest voting block in America. White women are. Latino's are going
Fri Nov 8, 2024, 12:38 AM
13 hrs ago

through the same process that Irish Americans and Italian Americans have and are becoming 'white' (especially multiple generation Latinos). I mean this in the sociological sense and (generally) it is a good thing. But as can be seen over that 3 Presidential cycles it is significantly cutting into Democratic Party votes, just like when the Irish and Italians became 'white'

Jk23

(330 posts)
89. Don't let some of the headliners fool you
Thu Nov 7, 2024, 01:18 PM
Yesterday

The Atlantic had a great article on this yesterday. The Republican party is a Hispanic party.

XanaDUer2

(13,625 posts)
90. Good luck to them
Thu Nov 7, 2024, 01:20 PM
Yesterday

If that maniac truly starts rounding up Latinos, and trump-loving citizens get caught up, oh well.

My mom used to say, live your vote

hadEnuf

(2,630 posts)
123. "I wonder, the Latinos who voted for him..."
Thu Nov 7, 2024, 04:06 PM
22 hrs ago

As Olbermann said, the 2 words left for them is "Bye now".

Response to XanaDUer2 (Reply #1)

blueknight73

(308 posts)
125. just saw this:
Thu Nov 7, 2024, 04:09 PM
22 hrs ago

Lawrence Massachusetts
Population : 89, 143
Hispanic 82% ( highest in Mass )
Adults w/ college degree 15%
Median household income $58, 079


2016: Clinton + 66
2020: Biden + 48
2024 Harris + 17

kelly1mm

(5,098 posts)
152. I think Latinos, especially multi generation Latinos are having the same conversion as other ethnic groups
Thu Nov 7, 2024, 11:46 PM
14 hrs ago

to becoming 'white'. I am not necessarily saying this based on skin tone but in the way that there used to be a defined 'Irish vote' and a defined 'Italian vote'. Nobody seriously considers these groups (for electoral purposes for sure) as anything but basic 'white voters'. In a general sociological sense this is a 'good' thing.

Hate all you want, but the GOP has made MASSIVE inroads into the Latino community. While not quite a majority R constituency, they have steadily been heading there over the past 3 cycles.

Lemon Lyman

(1,477 posts)
2. & then my question
Thu Nov 7, 2024, 09:39 AM
Yesterday

Were they ALWAYS this bad? Or did this MF'er just put them all under his spell and turn them into his crazy cult?

Bettie

(16,912 posts)
4. Right? I don't know
Thu Nov 7, 2024, 09:40 AM
Yesterday

But, suddenly, I'm glad we don't have a large circle of friends, because writing off relatives is hard enough.

Elessar Zappa

(15,658 posts)
10. I think people were always this bad.
Thu Nov 7, 2024, 10:51 AM
Yesterday

They were just keeping their mouth’s shut for the most part until Obama’s administration broke their brain and they became more open about it. But yeah, even before Obama, lots of white people would get racist behind closed doors, with close friends and family.

brush

(57,225 posts)
7. It's said to be a machismo issue with many Latino males. The man rules the house and is the authority figure.
Thu Nov 7, 2024, 10:01 AM
Yesterday

Last edited Thu Nov 7, 2024, 11:30 AM - Edit history (1)

I'm African-American and of my nieces married a man from Miami where a lot of Cubans live. He said he's heard some unbelievably racist and misogynistic things there from the white Cubans. Surprising but not surprising I guess, as Cuba has a large demographic of Black Cubans. Seems Cuba has the same pecking order of most of the Caribbean nations, the ruling classes are largely light complexioned and the machismo is there.

One thing to note. Mexico just elected a woman president...a Jewish woman.

Guess the machismo attitude isn't quite everywhere in Latin nations.

Elessar Zappa

(15,658 posts)
9. Yeah, Mexico's gotten A LOT better in the past few decades.
Thu Nov 7, 2024, 10:49 AM
Yesterday

There’s still misogyny, of course, but they’ve really improved, unlike the US, apparently.

CrispyQ

(38,121 posts)
13. Misogyny or racism, IDK if you can state which one right-wing white men harbor the most.
Thu Nov 7, 2024, 11:03 AM
Yesterday

I think a lot of white people thought we'd made major inroads on racism & then...Obama. I blame John McCain, the Republican Party, & the media for not shutting Palin & her racist rhetoric down by shaming her, but the party needed the racists to win & the media loved the ratings her vitriol brought in. But she did show the rest of us just how many racists there were & how little progress we've really made. Clinton brought out the misogyny & Harris brought out both.

Blue Full Moon

(959 posts)
17. Years of brainwashing
Thu Nov 7, 2024, 11:09 AM
Yesterday

They will only change if something happens to them personally. They suffer from somebody else and they aren't talking about me syndromes.

Ursus Arctos

(34 posts)
38. I listened to an excellent
Thu Nov 7, 2024, 11:39 AM
Yesterday

podcast today that really helped me understand some important points about how Trump grew his support. On her podcast Fast Politics, Molly Jong Fast talked to Angelo Carusone. He outlined the strategy that Maga has used of appealing to and welcoming into the fold, smaller fringe (often batshit crazy) groups of people through social media--Anti-vaxxers, Q-anon, the he-man woman haters, and of course the eating the dogs and cats people among others. This is accomplished with a huge assist from algorithms. You end up with someone who might disagree with much of what Trump stands for, but he acknowledges their conspiracy theory beliefs, so they feel he understands them. Tucker Carlson's announcement that he was attacked by a demon in his sleep, coupled with Trump's use of the word demonic to describe the Democrats are related. The religious people who really believe that demons are actively at work, hear that and their limbic reward systems light up with a rush of dopamine. That's the "They feel seen" we keep hearing about. There's so much more. It's worth a listen.
https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/dahlia-lithwick-angelo-carusone/id1645614328?i=1000675986948

BonnieJW

(2,512 posts)
57. I think it was inside them.
Thu Nov 7, 2024, 12:14 PM
Yesterday

They hid it from polite society. When the beast showed up, they let it fly.

Quiet Em

(866 posts)
3. Yeah, I truly believed that good people outnumbered the creeps.
Thu Nov 7, 2024, 09:40 AM
Yesterday

I thought good people would prevent this from happening again.

Our society has a problem. It's sad.

Ocelot II

(120,393 posts)
5. An awful lot of people are just mean and dumb.
Thu Nov 7, 2024, 09:42 AM
Yesterday

People can and do act selflessly and bravely and honorably at times, but hundreds of years of history strongly suggest that more often they're just assholes.

CrispyQ

(38,121 posts)
16. An economy for all & a solid educational system would cure a ton of our problems!!
Thu Nov 7, 2024, 11:09 AM
Yesterday

Our capitalistic system has become more & more predatory & look out, cuz it's gonna be open season on all of us soon. Worse than it is now.

jmbar2

(6,038 posts)
27. Completely agree with you here
Thu Nov 7, 2024, 11:29 AM
Yesterday

Persistent economic stress can make people go looking for strongmen/saviors. Under all the hoopla about our economy is that it hasn't trickled down much. Hard to say Hooray for rich people's portfolios.

CrispyQ

(38,121 posts)
50. People have no idea how rich the rich really are.
Thu Nov 7, 2024, 12:01 PM
Yesterday

American wealth as pie. This video is dated Jan 2020, so before the rich got even richer during the pandemic. The good part starts at 45 seconds. The old guy is funny. The demo is over when Elizabeth Warren comes on.

CrispyQ

(38,121 posts)
67. Adding some figures would be good, too, so people would know which plate they're on.
Thu Nov 7, 2024, 12:25 PM
Yesterday

I think a lot of people who think they're on plate 4 are really on plate 3 or even 2. IDK for sure, but I do know that people have no idea just how wealthy the wealthy are.

ffr

(23,106 posts)
140. It is an eye opening visual. I wish they'd do another example of how it was 50 or 100 years ago.
Thu Nov 7, 2024, 06:40 PM
19 hrs ago

From the graphs I've seen, wealth at the top seems to have grown exponentially after 1980, when Reagan started his presidency.

FakeNoose

(35,498 posts)
94. We used to have that with FDR's New Deal
Thu Nov 7, 2024, 01:32 PM
Yesterday

It took a long time and a lot of work to get it going. But it's what made our country great ... or at least good and something to be proud of ... until the late 60's.

With Nixon and almost every R president after him - the New Deal started disappearing. Reagan gave it a very large kick in the groin. I could go on but you get the picture.

CrispyQ

(38,121 posts)
105. Yes! Almost everyone in the US today has benefited in some way from the New Deal.
Thu Nov 7, 2024, 01:53 PM
Yesterday

Even if it just gave a leg up to your grandparents or great-grands.

CrispyQ

(38,121 posts)
8. We cultivate the type of society we want.
Thu Nov 7, 2024, 10:47 AM
Yesterday

Unfortunately, women & minorities didn't have any say back when the rich, white founders were drawing up documents. (Pretty much the same in all patriarchal societies.) The rest of us were allowed to participate in their democracy as long as we kept to our place. I guess they never thought that when they based the country on "all men are created equal" the rest of us might question why we weren't included, why we weren't equal. Now, a bunch of privileged (mostly) white men are throwing a king-sized temper tantrum cuz they think only they are capable of running things. And here we stand on an ecological brink brought on by their policies & they still think they deserve to be in charge. And apparently so do a lot of women & minorities.

City Lights

(25,241 posts)
11. It's been a rude awakening, for sure.
Thu Nov 7, 2024, 10:52 AM
Yesterday

We are surrounded by moronic, selfish idiots who have no idea what is actually happening, nor what they just voted for.

Bettie

(16,912 posts)
12. But they are all over social media
Thu Nov 7, 2024, 10:58 AM
Yesterday

with their memes about "Don't end friendships over politics!".....except, it isn't politics, it's basic morality.

ETA: It's about values, that's the word I was looking for. They don't share mine.

Bettie

(16,912 posts)
19. For me, it feels like finding out a family member
Thu Nov 7, 2024, 11:15 AM
Yesterday

has a bunch of bodies buried in his back yard or basement and he still expects you to come over for the barbeque.

voteragain

(15 posts)
22. people in the USA
Thu Nov 7, 2024, 11:20 AM
Yesterday

again, I was raised by republicans many years ago.

nothing has changed with them and their outlook on life and how it's supposed to be here.

remember George Wallace?

Reagan that said " I did not leave the Democratic Party, it left me "

remember the assassinations of the Kennedy's?

the MIC and the forever wars?

hate is the foundation of the USA.......

remember that the slavers that started this country?

here's what I must say, if you want change you have to have the power to make change.

that means you must sometimes have to compromise your emotion with reality when you vote.

it may not be your favorite person but is that person going to help you achieve change in the real world of politics.

if if if we have a chance at another shot to save DEMOCRACY, first get the power to do so..........

kimbutgar

(23,164 posts)
24. It's sad so much hate and bigotry exists in our country
Thu Nov 7, 2024, 11:25 AM
Yesterday

Last edited Thu Nov 7, 2024, 03:31 PM - Edit history (1)

I am so mad at PA, MI, WISC, NC and AZ. Shame on them.

Maeve

(42,921 posts)
25. Persons are decent--as a group, people are not always
Thu Nov 7, 2024, 11:25 AM
Yesterday

In part because, in a group, we're stupid. We are easily led and influenced to bad behavior as a survival tactic. That's why we have a term like "mass hysteria" but not "mass kindness".
Eventually, tho, the hysteria ends and enough realize they are wrong.

At least, that's what I keep telling myself.

LizBeth

(10,752 posts)
26. Ya... I was really hit with that 2016, so I do get what you are saying.
Thu Nov 7, 2024, 11:29 AM
Yesterday

This election confirms I am right solidly and I have only Repub dad in my life. Not another single one. Can't do it and they do not deserve me, lol and my kindness/compassion/joy.

anamnua

(1,367 posts)
28. I agree. It is a seismic shock.
Thu Nov 7, 2024, 11:31 AM
Yesterday

I am still trying to get my head around the fact that the most powerful, technologically advanced country in the world, 'the shining city on the hill', just elected a convicted rapist/felon/narcissist/sociopath/fraudster/insurrectionist as its leader.

FirstLight

(13,960 posts)
31. yeah...i have a few ppl who are no longer friends cuz of that premise
Thu Nov 7, 2024, 11:34 AM
Yesterday

I think that's why I was abused by partners, thinking people are inherently good.

There is such a thing as dark-hearted... and unfortunately, we're surrounded by them

Docreed2003

(17,718 posts)
32. One thing I learned on the front lines of Covid
Thu Nov 7, 2024, 11:35 AM
Yesterday

Most peoples care for others ends at the tips of their noses. We are an incredibly selfish and self centered society.

Wingus Dingus

(8,400 posts)
36. People no longer want decency. They want money, or they want to watch other people lose and suffer.
Thu Nov 7, 2024, 11:39 AM
Yesterday

Greed for themselves and fuck-you, loser! to everyone else. You can't feel like a winner unless someone else is losing. That's where we are as a society.

Bettie

(16,912 posts)
42. You know, i know people who watch
Thu Nov 7, 2024, 11:47 AM
Yesterday

"reality" shows...."Real Housewives" and such. I watched half an episode of one of them once and it was so mean-spirited and awful, I turned it off.

And this is what so many want to see, what so many want to be.

Maybe I just don't belong anywhere anymore.

Wingus Dingus

(8,400 posts)
46. There's so little that's uplifting anymore, you have to really seek it out--I don't watch that trash either.
Thu Nov 7, 2024, 11:53 AM
Yesterday

I follow birding, gardening, geology, history, music, cooking, art and animal-rescue content on Instagram and YouTube, and re-watch all of my favorite sitcoms from the last few decades, and try to escape the nastiness and degradation of our culture that way. Also I try to get out into nature, it's healing and life-affirming.

misanthrope

(8,139 posts)
115. So in other words, the fruit of the Reagan tree
Thu Nov 7, 2024, 02:40 PM
23 hrs ago

This is what that era brought us. Even the POTUS-elect first found his fame and foothold into the American consciousness then.

Johnny2X2X

(21,678 posts)
41. The internet broke our culture
Thu Nov 7, 2024, 11:46 AM
Yesterday

It's a post truth world and evil forces saw it becoming that and took advantage before the forces of good could put on their boots.

It's a tough thing to say and people will call it elitist, but the average person is just not equipped to make sense out of the avalanche of information that bombards them every moment on the internet. I can recognize myself struggling with that more and more. And just when I thought I got good at weeding out fake articles and fake quotes, fake videos and photos have come along. I now regularly see videos of public figures saying things that they never said, sometimes I spot them easily and can track them down, but am I getting all of them? Am I seeing videos and thinking, "Man, that was an awful thing to say" and then just moving on? It's like drinking from a fire hose right now.

And it's only going to get worse, we let the social media monster loose on the town before we even knew the first thing about controlling it, and we've currently unleashed AI which will be a thousand times worse.

jayschool2013

(2,459 posts)
91. Spot on and a book to read
Thu Nov 7, 2024, 01:25 PM
Yesterday

I just finished Steven Brill's "The Death of Truth: How Social Media and the Internet Gave Snake Oil Salesmen and Demagogues the Weapons They Needed to Destroy Trust and Polarize the World--And What We Can Do."

Your thesis is the same as his. The book provides the details on how the convergence of social media algorithms, authoritarian states' propaganda arms, and the short-attention spans of American consumers led to the demise of truthful media and pushed people onto bullshit sites like Xhitter, Farcebook, and Instacrap for their "news."

Johnny2X2X

(21,678 posts)
103. It needed to be heavily regulated from the start
Thu Nov 7, 2024, 01:46 PM
Yesterday

We just kind of launched the internet and gave little thought to it. People talked about what regulations looked like, but you know which side fought tooth and nail against regulation. Then social media was out and shaping all of our minds before anyone even really knew how things worked and what was happening. Heck, most people today have no idea that your every move is being tracked on the internet. People don't realize that when you leave Facebook, Facebook bots follow you and log what sites you went to, how long you stayed there, and what you looked at.

And the very definition of social media is blurred. I've seen many a DU poster claiming, "I don't do social media at all, I have zero accounts." OK, um...but you're here on a message board, which is a form of social media, posting.

And people think of being tracked in terms of some guy somewhere logging something, it's njot a guy, but a computer program or AI that is just using tools it has to create a psychological profile of you. That profile was used to sell you things at first, but now it is being used to shape the way you think and even the way you feel.

And people talk about the uncanniness of advertisements like they're spooky. "I had mentioned to my neighbor just the other day while out for a walk that this herbacide is good for that Nutsedge weed they have on their lawn, and then low and behold, I see an advertisement for that very thing later that night." People will claim, "They're listening to you through your phone or some other way." But it's actually a lot more creepy than being spied on with a listening device. They didn't spy on your words, they spied on your thoughts and feelings and then maybe manipulated them. They know you better than you know your self, and they're using a detailed profile of you that is probably more predictive of your future behavior than your own words would be. And by they, I mean some namless, feelingless set of 1s and 0s somewhere.

So that is the power that fascists have seized on to take over our country. And their aim isn't to spread prosperity and peace, it's to spread chaos, confusion, and take away people's freedoms because in their hearts they are against self governance and determination.

Elessar Zappa

(15,658 posts)
121. Well, we have got to figure something out.
Thu Nov 7, 2024, 02:54 PM
23 hrs ago

Or we’re in for an indefinite period of right wing dominance. Hell if I know what we should do though.

Johnny2X2X

(21,678 posts)
122. Will take something big happening
Thu Nov 7, 2024, 02:59 PM
23 hrs ago

It's all a bunch of ruthless sociopaths using AI and social media to subjugate people and turn them on each other. Unless someone comes along who uses this power for absolute good and for altruistic reasons, it's going to continue being this group of thugs running things.

Dawson Leery

(19,364 posts)
97. The media was better off before 1990.
Thu Nov 7, 2024, 01:38 PM
Yesterday

No hate radio, no internet.

The big three broadcasters and a few major respectable papers.

Trust_Reality

(1,849 posts)
45. Reality can be very unpleasant sometimes
Thu Nov 7, 2024, 11:49 AM
Yesterday

There is an old saying, "When someone says 'It's not about the money, it's the money'".

Here is a new one: When a voter says it's the economy, it's not the economy. It is ego or fear or racism. (something they are ashamed to admit).

A world class con man with a lifetime of appeasement and successful bullying has easily beaten the best presidential candidate I have seen in my lifetime.

Unbelievable.

My initial response is to subscribe or donate regularly to ACLU, The Guardian News, CREW, DU, and probably AOC.

As Rachel and Kamala are saying, we need to stay engaged.

BigmanPigman

(52,208 posts)
49. I have become a misanthrope
Thu Nov 7, 2024, 12:01 PM
Yesterday

and this election has confirmed my opinion. I am a realist. I keep saying out loud to myself, "I knew it, I knew it". I'm 62 but I have aged over 20 years in the last 8. My Plan B is going into action.

Oopsie Daisy

(4,424 posts)
51. True. There are several politicians who have greatly disappointed me too *
Thu Nov 7, 2024, 12:04 PM
Yesterday

* who seem to be more interested in grandstanding, and showing poor judgement and selfishness in trying to punish the Democratic party by intentionally kneecapping our candidate and depressing voter turnout. I've come to expect it from folks like Susan, Jill, Jane Nina and Michael... but I take it much more personally when the crippling wounds are delivered by someone who should know better.

stollen

(521 posts)
53. Look at our history
Thu Nov 7, 2024, 12:06 PM
Yesterday

Subjugation of the native population and 400 years of slavery...

All it took was a messianic speaker to unleash what frail laws we had to keep that bottled up.

ismnotwasm

(42,433 posts)
56. Went to my SILs funeral a couple of months ago
Thu Nov 7, 2024, 12:12 PM
Yesterday

She died in a horrible motorcycle accident. Her people are all bikers. They showed up for her funeral in love and support. They brought food, love and laughter. They still support my grieving BIL in anyway they can. Their motorcycle group does things like toy runs, scholarships, patriot guard for vets

My brother in law warned us not to tell anyone we were voting for Kamala Harris. Saw a couple “Bikers for Trump” patches

They weren’t MAGA, exactly. They aren’t garbage either. At least not to each other.

Saw an old co-worker of mine—a Filipino immigrant— post something on FB about how JFK JR was going to stop fluoride in water and vaccine mandates and how she was all for it. I hadn’t seen this kind of crap from her before. She is an excellent nurse and a generous person. She fought for months for her little daughter who had cancer. She’s not garbage either
(I unfriended her anyway, because anything JFK JR well that’s a bridge too far in my FB tolerance meter)

I live in Seattle. I can avoid most MAGA interactions. My state is blue and prosperous. We just elected yet another Democratic governor and attorney general. I realize, in this moment in time, I am privileged.

What I am saying is people who deliberately choose the path of bigotry and hatred are certainly garbage, but most people are not. Just trying to fit in with their social groups. It takes real courage to break out.

Some of them are garbage, some of them are moral cowards but most of them are indoctrinated to not accept information outside of bias.

jmbar2

(6,038 posts)
65. Good illustration of why we shouldn't be too hard on the other side
Thu Nov 7, 2024, 12:24 PM
Yesterday

If you subtract all brain worms that they caught in the past 20 years
- Obama/Hillary bashing
- Distrust of reputable news
- QAnon
- Vax denial
- Immigrant, LGBTQ bashing
- "Owning the libs"

... they are more like us than not. They have brain worms. Maybe they will get over them at some point. Some are reachable, given time.

ismnotwasm

(42,433 posts)
82. They are NOT reachable
Thu Nov 7, 2024, 12:48 PM
Yesterday

And I didn’t mean to imply that. My thought is, to themselves they are not garbage. To themselves, they are not even wrong.

Trump for all his bumbling touched right to the heart of America, right to the heart of our white supremacist roots. Right to our rot. He’s clever that way.

misanthrope

(8,139 posts)
116. JFK Jr has been dead for 25 years.
Thu Nov 7, 2024, 02:46 PM
23 hrs ago

I believe you're thinking of his lunatic cousin, who is a complete reprobate.

Stargleamer

(2,169 posts)
156. The cost of. . .
Fri Nov 8, 2024, 12:47 AM
13 hrs ago

Last edited Fri Nov 8, 2024, 01:24 PM - Edit history (1)

“ Just trying to fit in with their social groups” is often, if not always, one’s conscience

Old Crank

(4,555 posts)
72. Pretty sad realization
Thu Nov 7, 2024, 12:30 PM
Yesterday

But seems to have been a lie.

I had always thought that humanity is in a continuous, if dlow, advancement to a more human condition.

It would appear that the human condition is dominated by vile humans.

geo1

(81 posts)
74. Thank you for expressing exactly how I've felt since waking up yesterday morning
Thu Nov 7, 2024, 12:33 PM
Yesterday

If it weren't for knowing about all the good folks here at DU who have worked so hard for Democratic candidates over the years, and who will continue to do so , would be hard to get through another day.

FakeNoose

(35,498 posts)
78. Agreed - it's going to be an awful 4 years and we have few allies left
Thu Nov 7, 2024, 12:40 PM
Yesterday

Chump will take us out of NATO first chance he gets. Then what? All hell breaks loose.
This is nothing to be proud of.

misanthrope

(8,139 posts)
118. Assuming it is only four years is optimistic
Thu Nov 7, 2024, 02:49 PM
23 hrs ago

I think the bow of our boat is out over the falls and tipping downward.

BarbD

(1,215 posts)
83. Fear and ignorance rules the day.
Thu Nov 7, 2024, 12:50 PM
Yesterday

We live in a country where the South is still fighting the Civil War. We worship money. The song from the Broadway musical "South Pacific" says it all: "We have to be carefully taught. Before we are six or seven or eight to hate all the people our relatives hate. We have to be carefully taught."

paulrevere2018

(46 posts)
88. There were millions of Americans is the mid-19th century that seemed
Thu Nov 7, 2024, 01:16 PM
Yesterday

like decent people and they were perfectly OK with owning and their friends owning slaves.

moondust

(20,392 posts)
93. Corruption gone wild.
Thu Nov 7, 2024, 01:28 PM
Yesterday

I've suspected a big motivator for the oligarchs is the desire to be above the law so they can do whatever they want. With Project 2025 aren't they basically planning to demolish the federal government, particularly the laws and regulations that "threaten" them and their greedy predation? The prosecutor is definitely not the person who will get that done for them or hand out pardons.

There are probably quite a few low-information voters who don't pay much attention to politics and can be easily swayed by friends and disinformation. Among them are probably many who just know that the cost of living is too damn high and we've gotta change things! They may not acknowledge that Biden and Harris did not raise those prices, and that not all "change" is for the better. This choice could very well turn out much worse for them.

Dawson Leery

(19,364 posts)
95. I never regretted not serving in the military.
Thu Nov 7, 2024, 01:35 PM
Yesterday

This election shows why.

People are basically selfish and willfully ignorant.

Can't say I ever had sympathy for those under "Little Boy".

4catsmom

(202 posts)
96. America is certainly embracing hate at the moment
Thu Nov 7, 2024, 01:38 PM
Yesterday

not sure if we'll still be standing by the time this passes

Demobrat

(9,734 posts)
132. The 2020 candidate was a man.
Thu Nov 7, 2024, 04:56 PM
21 hrs ago

The 2024 candidate was a woman. See where I’m going with this?

I’m not surprised at all. This country hates women.

Semperviren

(4 posts)
104. Human nature
Thu Nov 7, 2024, 01:50 PM
Yesterday

I have never believed that people are basically decent. We evolved from killer ape like creatures and in many ways we are still that. The only species other than bees and ants that wage war are chimpanzees (our closest relatives) and us.
We have to learn to be decent, critically thinking and considerate individuals, and many haven’t. We don’t have to learn to like power, be selfish or lie or steal or kill, these are innate.

misanthrope

(8,139 posts)
119. FIFY
Thu Nov 7, 2024, 02:51 PM
23 hrs ago

"We have to learn to be decent, critically thinking and considerate individuals, and many most haven’t. We don’t have to learn to like power, be selfish or lie or steal or kill, these are innate."

Bettie

(16,912 posts)
120. In 2016, I mistakenly put it down to
Thu Nov 7, 2024, 02:52 PM
23 hrs ago

them being misled or lied to...I hoped that they weren't as bad as I thought.

Now, all doubt has been removed.

We have a county Dem party meeting next week. I have to go, but it feels futile.

DemonGoddess

(5,071 posts)
134. I've always preferred my pets
Thu Nov 7, 2024, 05:14 PM
21 hrs ago

to most of the people I encounter. But, that's me. IMO, most of the people I've encountered over time are not worth the meat sack they inhabit.

Response to Bettie (Original post)

paulkienitz

(1,316 posts)
139. What I have come to understand about the republican base is that it all runs on doublethink.
Thu Nov 7, 2024, 06:24 PM
20 hrs ago

Most of them are perfectly capable of behaving kindly and decently. But inside their minds the dots are left unconnected, and they don't understand, or don't let themselves understand, that what they're voting for is in conflict with the way they like to treat people around them on a personal level. They think they're voting for freedom when they're supporting oppression, they see themselves as embodying kindness yet they enable cruelty, they identify themselves as upholders of the law while they break it, and they have no idea why anyone would ever think they were racist. The people in the Jan 6 insurrection seem to have mostly been wrapped up in some Walter Mitty heroic fantasy; many of them came to a horrible realization later on when they comprehended what they had actually done. (Being dragged into court and charged with a felony does help encourage this realization.) There's always a disconnect, always an element of self-delusion. You'd think that this would only affect a minority but it seems to be the norm among them. I'm guessing that for a lot of them this comes out of being raised with the kind of religion that demands to be believed in without evidence, so their minds are primed for believing lies in any area where the truth would create any conflict with their community. They end up supporting oppressive authoritarianism, yet if the day ever comes when they find themselves subject to authoritarian oppression, they'll be astonished and shocked and have no idea how it could have happened. They won't let themselves understand what they are doing.

Starlight27

(2 posts)
142. Totally Agree
Thu Nov 7, 2024, 07:11 PM
19 hrs ago

Last edited Thu Nov 7, 2024, 08:56 PM - Edit history (1)

Trump just gave everyone permission to be the worst person they can be. People are more than happy to do it. Lazy, stupid, selfish and mean. Lie all the time, think you can do no wrong and always look to blame other people. Some “Christian Nation” we are. What exactly are people learning in these churches ?

moniss

(5,518 posts)
145. Throughout my long adult life I've met thousands of people
Thu Nov 7, 2024, 09:24 PM
17 hrs ago

and I can honestly say that less than maybe 15 or 20 of those people are ones I would have sit at a table to share a meal.

mamacita75

(112 posts)
146. Important lesson
Thu Nov 7, 2024, 09:48 PM
16 hrs ago

that makes me want to weep. I was so idealistic as a young 20-year-old. 47 years later I want to hold on to the little idealism I retain. I am surprised I have any at all. TY Bettie.

Trueblue Texan

(2,896 posts)
147. What i see in what has happened reinforces my foundational understanding of humanity and life...
Thu Nov 7, 2024, 10:11 PM
16 hrs ago

All of life, including humanity is nothing but potential. Humans have the ability to be conscious about controlling the direction of their potential—most choose not to be conscious about that, however. Each decision we make, whether we are conscious or not and no matter how insignificant the decision, develops some potential within us and we gather momentum toward that potential each time we choose to make a decision in a given direction. What has happened is the morons who support Trump started out making tiny decisions to overlook his flaws, to rationalize the evils he committed. As they continued to develop their potential in the direction of accepting evil, they became more evil themselves so that they could no longer easily discern evil when it was right in front of them. This is exactly what happened to the fascists who supported the Nazis in the 30s and 40s in Europe. It happens slowly at first, then snowballs ever faster into an avalanche of evil. Resist it, shine a light on it, make it obvious for anyone who is still conscious and has the ability to wake up and pull themselves out of its gravitational field.

I_UndergroundPanther

(12,901 posts)
150. I think
Thu Nov 7, 2024, 11:29 PM
15 hrs ago

Because people with narcissism authoritarian and sociopath personalities have increased in numbers vs the non toxic people we reached some sort of critical mass where the number of voters who are toxic personalities overwhelmed regular voters. When the narcissists and sociopaths saw one of “thier kind”running they came out to vote in droves.

Bullies support each other. It’s called a gang, a crime ring, ect.

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