It wouldn't be the first time Americans told pollsters they voted because of the economy to cover for their racism

[bigtree]

Last edited Thu Nov 7, 2024, 11:50 AM - Edit history (1)

...and sexism, and xenophobia, and hatred of LGBTQ people.

Basically hatred of anyone except themselves.


...but this is being repeated over and over to make the lie stick this time.

Here's the thing about that excuse. They elected a racist dictator-wannabe to get lower inflation, when inflation is 2.1%?

Bullshit.

[jimfields33]

1. It's because butter is 7 dollars. Literally it was prices at the grocery store.

I really believe that was the end result.

[Walleye]

2. So when prices don't come down which I don't think they will. We should never let them forget that's why they voted.

Demand that two dollar gas and one dollar a dozen eggs.

[jimfields33]

23. I think gas will fall by half because he's going to open up drilling everywhere.

However lowering costs of food will be harder. The only thing he might do is talk with target CEO and find out how they are able massively cut prices on 2,000 items and then have a vast meeting with all national grocery store CEOs and show them the target plan. Don’t know if he will, but I sure as hell would on day one if I were president.

[Otto_Harper]

24. Drilling does NOT drop the price of gasoline

As a manufactured product, there is a minimum price point below which it is a losing proposition to sell. You could supply free crude oil, and there would still be a minimum price.

Oil needs to be refined. No one is going to invest in a new refinery just because oil is cheap, unless they see a profit in it.

Oil from different regions is different chemically, and a refinery must be set up to process the specific variety of oil being used. You can't just drag oil to another refinery and process it there.

We are already the world's largest exporter of oil. Hence, drilling will do nothing for the price at the pump.

[jimfields33]

27. Welp. Trumps screwed. lol.

Thank you for your post and great explanation.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

31. The price of oil is fungible.

There is no way we can produce so much more oil that it materially brings down the price of oil where the price is set on the world market. Also, the lower the price of oil the less incentive there is to drill it. And as you said we're already the world's largest oil producer.

[Walleye]

40. His rubes believe that the oil in our ground belongs to us. Like there are not international oil companies or something

[Walleye]

37. I really think we need increased refineries to bring the price of gas down

The thing is, they don’t really care about bringing prices down. They just care about keeping women and minorities down. They like to make as much money as they possibly can gouge.

[fescuerescue]

63. ALOT of the price is food is in the price of the energy to grow, harvest and ship it

So in theory is gas and diesel prices fall dramatically, that would work it's way into food prices.

[barbtries]

29. won't matter.

it will always be the Democrats' fault. always.

[atreides1]

3. Uh huh

But those prices were raised by the company that makes the butter...and now with Trump in charge the price of everything will go up!

It was more likely racism, bigotry, and misogyny...then it was the price of butter...no one likes to be labeled as a racist or a bigot, so they hide behind the price of butter!

[thesquanderer]

28. re: "now with Trump in charge the price of everything will go up"

... but most voters didn't know or didn't believe that. What they knew for sure was that stuff was cheaper when he was in office.

re: "no one likes to be labeled as a racist or a bigot, so they hide behind the price of butter" -- outside of the kkk-like fringe, even racists and bigots are more likely to be influenced by their wallet than their bigotry, IMO.

[TBF]

47. They're willing to trade their daughters for cheaper eggs? BS. Sexism & Racism. nt

[thesquanderer]

57. Yes, I think lots of people care more about their wallet than access to abortion.

First of all, lots of people are "pro-life" so for them, it's not even a contest.

There are also lots of voters who live in states where abortion is almost certainly going to remain available, or at least where people believe that to be the case. And there are also lots of people who don't have daughters, or even any women in their lives of child-bearing age or younger. In short, here's what I think is even more common than sexism and racism: Selfishness.

And really, I don't think it should be surprising that people care more about what affects their own lives than what affects the lives of others. And if stuff is costing someone hundreds, perhaps thousands of dollars a year more than it was 4 years ago, yeah, they might vote more on that than on whether someone else can get a safe, legal abortion.

People who attribute the loss largely to sexism are also ignoring the huge number of women who voted for Trump.

And if you really think sexism and racism were the driving factors, it's hard to explain how Harris did better among white male voters than Biden did in 2020. I'm not saying sexism and racism weren't factors, but I don't see the rationale for assuming that they were the key factors, when white male votes moved the opposite direction of what that would indicate.

[TBF]

65. It's not just our daughters who choose an abortion -

* It is our daughters who are female and decide to have a baby - and they are already dying. Something goes wrong in their body & they are literally put in hospital rooms until they are "almost dead" - and then maybe the doctors will save them if they can, or maybe they won't because they are afraid of losing their medical license. This has already happened multiple times in Texas.

* It is our daughters (and our sons for that matter) who are LGBTQ+. They are already having issues with the Christian right, and that's going to massively intensify.

* Barack Obama was elected president twice. So maybe racism isn't that great of a factor. Granted he's an exceptional candidate, but so were Hillary & Kamala. But they were both female. "Oh, but they weren't likable". I've become convinced that no woman running for president in this country is going to be considered "likable" because men have decided they are not having it.

* I know there are some men who are more enlightened. My husband is one of them. He is as determined as I am to keep our daughter safe - even if we have to move her out of the country to do so. I'm not saying every single white male is racist and sexist. But at this point unless I know them personally, I'm going to assume they are.

"If things are costing hundreds or thousands a year more" - maybe these folks should figure out that they've just gone through a pandemic and our country has actually rebounded better than many others. I'm not going to pretend Biden is perfect. -- But then again if I have to defend our democratic president on this message board, I already know where you stand and I am done.

[thesquanderer]

67. re: "maybe these folks should figure out that...our country has actually rebounded better than many others"

Yes. Maybe that's something our side could have done a better job at communicating... i.e. making sure people know that inflation was a worldwide problem after the pandemic, and thanks to Biden, we did better than most!

re: "if I have to defend our democratic president on this message board, I already know where you stand and I am done." - I didn't see any attack on our president here.

[CrispyQ]

54. The MR effect, I call it. Misogyny & Racism. -nt

[Keepthesoulalive]

4. It was racism

Republicans consistently destroy the economy and Democrats clean up their mess. The hate message was loud and clear and it was not a dealbreaker . He didn’t speak to their economic anxiety, he spoke to their racism. White women went along for the ride. Not all white women.

[Orrex]

20. Indeed racism is the key factor

But we also need to do better than telling people that the economy is great despite the higher prices they’re paying for everything.

Democrats have been terrible at messaging for at least half a century, and saying “you’re not struggling, inflation is down” (which absolutely is the message they’re hearing) won’t win many elections.

Reality notwithstanding, it makes Democrats look hopelessly out of touch.

[valleyrogue]

32. Racism and xenophobia are part of it, but it is REALLY about misogyny.

Many men, especially younger men, are not getting laid to the extent to which they think they are entitled, and they are stomping mad about it.

We ignore hatred for women at our peril.

We also need to stop blaming Democrats for these assholes' votes. They vote for assholes because they, too, are assholes just like Trump. Trump makes being an asshole respectable. It has nothing to do with "messaging." You will never, ever change them. You can talk until you are blue in the face about the economy or immigration or whatever using facts. They will never listen to you. They were raised to be right-wing assholes, and they will die that way.

[Walleye]

41. Absolutely, it is misogyny, of course the racism too.

I guess it’s pretty easy to get men to hate women. The racists hate the Democratic Party because we have a much larger percentage of Black people than they do. It’s not just the race or gender of our candidate. They hate that we believe in equality, they hate our whole party.

[valleyrogue]

49. These (mostly) white males hate any challenge to their unearned privilege.

White males never had formal "affirmative action" policies for them, except for veterans preference, because they had affirmative action as a birthright. They think they got to where they are because they worked "hard" and because of "merit," but there is no such thing. Most white males have NO idea of the extent of their privilege; it is just taken for granted. When other groups, especially women, make some inroads on white male domination in areas like education or employment, these men literally lose their shit over the tiniest threat to their privilege.

I say to Democratic politicians to ignore these people. They are beyond hope.

[Orrex]

60. Actually, you're completely correct

Shame on me for omitting that as the major factor.

[intheflow]

74. I think Democrats are okay with their messaging.

The problem is the way the media talks about it. They'll have a one-minute mention of how well the economy is doing but not mention Biden. Then they have a three-minute "human interest" piece about how Republicans think Biden killed the economy and never once challenge those people with the actual facts they reported minutes earlier.

[Orrex]

75. Definitely part of it

I've complained about exactly this from NPR for decades, often with NPR's apologists attacking me in-thread and insisting that I didn't actually hear what I'd actually heard minutes before.

And that one-minute mention? Often it's a summary by a commentator, rather than a formal overview by a Democrat. Or worse, it'll be a very slanted summary by a Republican, followed (as you note) by a three minutes of Republican-friendly spin.

I recall more than one occasion where they went to Mitch McConnell for an analysis, and they handed him the mic for four minutes while they stood back to scratch their asses or whatever while he catapulted the propaganda.

I would reiterate that Dems are terrible at soundbyting their policies, giving long-form paragraph responses to the Republicans' heavily focus grouped three-syllable catchphrases. They may be giving solid answers, but they go nowhere in today's rapidfire media.

Repubs simply aren't playing the same game, and they haven't been since the early 90s at least.

[whathehell]

64. I have a question..

If it was just racism, one must ask why Barack Obama won the Presidency twice?
The Gender factor here can't be ignored, and If, at 53 percentage points, white women "went along for the ride", it was by a small margin only.
White men, by contrast, voted for Trump by 60 %. The picture gets yet more interesting when you add the education factor as It reveals an even greater disparity between white men and women. College educated white women voted for Kamala by 57%; Only 47% of college educated white men voted for her. That's a 10 point difference between white men and women, even among the college educated
None of these numbers represents anything ideal, of course, but I think they show a greater perspective.

[Keepthesoulalive]

66. When we start getting into the numbers game

We lose sight of the problem. I ask anyone who says it’s not racism or sexism
What have the republicans done for anyone who’s not rich or white? Have they improved education, fixed roads, put money into rural areas, supported the blue collar workers, children’s health after they are born , anything to help all of the people of this country? When you answer that question you see it about race and gender.

[whathehell]

69. You might want to read your original post again

because the fact is, it doesn't mention gender and sexism as factors in Kamala's loss -- You mentioned racism only, and that's what I was addressing in my post.

[Keepthesoulalive]

70. The democrats were supporting unions

They were sending the messages out about helping all Americans, it was not getting through the media sane washing trump. They were required by media to send out a 10 page report laying out their positions and still they said they don’t know what she plans to do as president . He said the most horrid things about auto workers with actors pretending to be auto workers, crickets. But he told us what he intended and the folks who voted for him believed him and economics and all the other cover stories are bull shit. It is hate parse it However you like .

[whathehell]

71. ...Have we changed the subject now?

I don't mind, I'm just having trouble keeping track...For what it's worth, I have no argument at all with you regarding the media and their "sane washing". That said, I'm not sure where the "Parse it however you like" directive comes from, as I'm not doing anything of the kind.
.

[Keepthesoulalive]

72. I have said what I feel

About the election Democratic messaging , white racism with a side of misogyny . Any further discussion is going down an endless pit. My side of this issue is over. Have a nice evening.

[whathehell]

73. Uh huh

I agree about the futility of this discussion...You have a nice evening as well.

[surfered]

21. There's a disconnect, because Trump's planned tariffs will only increase inflation.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

22. You nailed it. I would add a caveat.

When people get a raise they attribute it to their own efforts. When prices go up they attribute it to someone else.
If the economy sucks Cult45 will blame someone else. However Cult 45 isn't large enough to win an election.

[happy feet]

45. I do the grocery shopping in

A major metropolitan area. Where is butter (and what brand) $7.00 or did I miss your sarcasm? I’m curious.

[Bookreadingliberal53]

61. I live in Michigan

Land o’Lakes is close to $7 but the store brand is around $5.

[jimfields33]

62. Mika on morning Joe was mentioning it.

She couldn’t believe it when she went shopping. The rest of the panel said grocery prices are way too high.

[kerouac2]

5. People don't understand economics

They don't know if 2 is good or bad, better or worse. Or how a war in Ukraine affects flour prices. Or how much profit companies make and prices being raised just to make more money. They don't know we're producing more us oil than ever. Or that moving to renewable energy creates jobs.

Folks literally complaining about roads and bridges needing repair, and then complaining about the inconvenience of detours when they get fixed. They take both complaints out on the Dems. Even the guys doing the work take it out on the Dems giving them the work.

[brush]

6. Exactly. We live in a racist, missogynistic country. There's no dougt about it now.

Roberts relaxed the Voting Rights law in 2010 saying racism no longer exists in the nation. That was/is bullshit of course.

There's no post-racialism as was said because of Pres. O's election. The emergence of the Tea Party movement in 2010 proved that, not to metion why O'Connell's immediate pledge to Pres. O's election was to make him a one-term president.Also there was his denial of allowing him the Garland SCOTUS pick (a better place for the slow-moving and ineffectual Garland as the AG), then there was the subsequent hustling by turtleman to rush Coney-Barrett onto the court, breaking his reason for not allowing the Galland pick

I could go on about the MSM and cable media's normalizing of trump's obvious white supremacist pronuncements about the 'fine people on both sides' at Charlottesville.

It's who we are.

[Keepthesoulalive]

7. It's who we have always been

The lynching, the bombings, the Klan and now it’s the people from other countries eating our pets and taking our jobs.

[brush]

8. Yep, what we've always been.

[Walleye]

42. The country has always been that way, but most of us used to be a little more idealistic. That's gone.

[brush]

52. Agreed. That's gone. No more "We're number 1., were number 1. We're not.

Maybe some of the nordic nations with robust safety nets for their citizens, including healthcare and free college if so desired. And no haff- divided nation with half being raging racists and misogynists finally prevailing over the mostly empathetic and concerned for the common good other half.

Here unfortunately is not the best country to live in anymore. It was briefly after WWll when our economy was going up, up and up because the rest of the world was recovering from war damage.

It lasted thru the '50s and into the '70s when families did well on just one income. Then other nations' economies rebounded, our manufacturers faced stiff competion, recessions happened, then came Reagan and Reagan Democrats and the moral majority. It was good while it lasted...mostly for whites, not so much for POCs.

[Walleye]

58. And so many of us grew up in that golden age, we took it for granted

[DemonGoddess]

9. They shouldn't bother lying anymore

WE know who they are. Assholes. I'm still so, so angry. I'm going to be angry for a very long time I think.

[JI7]

10. Just look at how they easily reject a black guy with a shitty record

while voting for Trump in North Carolina.

[uponit7771]

12. WHOA !!! Hits like a brick, didn't think Robinson ... he was better than Trump

[valleyrogue]

38. He was a certifiable whack job. That is why he was defeated. n/t

[JI7]

51. So is Trump but they voted for him

[valleyrogue]

55. Robinson was even worse. There is no getting around it. n/t

[JI7]

56. How was he worse ? they both are gross and vile

[uponit7771]

68. How was Robinson functionally worse than Trump?

[uponit7771]

11. ☝🏾☝🏾☝🏾 THIS !!! ☝🏾☝🏾☝🏾 Germany in 1933 was relatively doing good compared to other countries in Europe !!!

[Blue Full Moon]

14. It's selfishness

[mopinko]

13. i think the same is true of guns.

they dont want to say it out loud, but i think allred, like beto, lost cuz they were gonna tackle gun violence.
i think that goes for the whole party.

[Blue Full Moon]

17. Always reminds me of Star Trek

The episode where everyone carries a gun and is Mafia. They must have watched it and said that sounds good.

[czarjak]

15. "Racism is dead."

Good enough for John Roberts?

[surfered]

16. Not sure a voter has admitted to a pollster that, "Yeah, I'm a racist cracker!"

[barbtries]

26. or

"I hate women with every cell of my body!"

[Walleye]

43. They will come closer to being honest about that, out loud

[Magoo48]

18. Finding the truth these days is like fishing fly shit outta pepper.

[ananda]

19. Thank you!

We've been subjected to code talk
that many people take at face value.

And it's code reachout. Any kind of
attack on the Democrats, so matter
how egregiously false, reaches voters
who need any excuse and are easy
to manipulate with bias confirmation.

[barbtries]

25. 100% bullshit

when January rolls around they'll suffer along with all of us.

i think i may have fundamentally gained a different regard for the people in this country who signed us all on to the dark ages. IT DID NOT HAVE TO BE THIS WAY.

[valleyrogue]

30. It's less racism than misogyny. n/t

[iluvtennis]

33. It was misogyny and racism - America needs to OWN this. n/t

[valleyrogue]

35. We cannot focus on people who have this mindset. It is impossible.

I am so sick and tired of reading about Democrats being bad at "messaging." You can't FIX these people--ever. They either have to learn the hard way or die out.

The nonvoters are another story. Again, it is THEIR fault and nobody else's they are too lazy or apathetic to vote.

[bearsfootball516]

34. I'm sure it didn't help. But when Biden dropped out, he was trailing Trump 7-9 points in battleground states.

Last edited Thu Nov 7, 2024, 11:23 AM - Edit history (1)

Kamala vastly improved on that, so racism/sexism probably wasn't as big of a deal as people think.

Exit polls are telling, though. 45 percent of voters said that they're worse off than they were 4 years ago, and 75 percent said inflation and higher prices have made their own lives more difficult over the past 12 months.

Worst, 70 percent of voters said the country is headed in the wrong direction.

Couple that with Biden's approval rating being about 40 percent in swing states, Kamala was sailing into brutally difficult headwinds. The fact the election was as close as it is is a testament to how hard she worked.

[Martin68]

36. For some voters it was racism, for others it was the continual drone of the right wing media that the economy was in

shambles, inflation was soaring, crime was peaking, immigration was flooding the nation with people who would be supported by tax payers. For those of us who rely on factual reporting from reliable sources, it is very hard to understand that a major portion of the populace has been brainwashed by a daily deluge of lies. My parents - intelligent, educated people with good values - succumbed. They died shortly before Trump won his first term, and I think he would have horrified them. But they would still have been listening to Fox for hour every day, and that is a powerful force for evil. I think the biggest threat to our democracy is the fact that the rich wing media can lie with impunity.

[Walleye]

48. Fox looks frighteningly similar to Russian state TV now

[malaise]

39. But the promise of a more perfect Union keeps

the truth under the covers while women and non-whites are treated like shit

[TBF]

44. Agree but you need to add sexism - it was both.

We couldn't win with the white woman in 2016, and we couldn't win with the black/Indian woman this week. We DID pull it off with the black man (and how I wish he were still our president)

I am so disgusted that so many white men, latino men, and - yes - white women stepped up to hurt women.

As a white woman myself I was encouraged when I saw other white women in my neighborhood (suburb of major blue city) out walking with their Harris/Walz shirts on. But it turns out we were the minority. The church ladies with their bigotry won out.

I'm very bitter about all of it. I know that black women have a very big burden, not trying to minimize that. But I do think it was both racism & sexism this time. They keep saying "it was the prices". Really? You want your eggs to be a dollar cheaper, and you're willing to trade your daughter for that? I absolutely agree with the BS call.

[bigtree]

59. I'm sorry, you're right

...I don't know why I didn't include that here.

I've said it many times before. Thanks for reminding me.

[Walleye]

46. I keep remembering Nixon's soul-revealing farewell speech to his staff

His voice was not that strong and it really sounded like words that came from his mother. He said, “remember others may hate you, but they don’t win until you hate them, because then you destroy yourself” he learned that the hard way.

[Dem4life1234]

50. Amerikkka for you

[CrispyQ]

53. Elon has told us things will get worse before they get better.

But things are good now so why fuck with a good thing?

If we had a decent educational system & a responsible, accurate news media maybe more people would have thought to ask that question. And now we're just gonna get dumber.

[CentralMass]

76. Deleted- duplicate post

[CentralMass]

77. I was listeningbto MSNBC and zprogressive Voices on tunein radio on a walk the other day.

They were talking about what went wrong. Among the list was they lost , particularly the male, Hispanic vote. Back on 2020 Biden got 59% of the male Hispanic vote, Harris only got 34% of it..
I'm not sure of the accuracy or source of their numbers. They also said that the very young voter did not come out for Harris and ai believe favored tge orange Anur.
I guess we will see a better post mortum over time.